South London Masters expelled from the sport by Steering Group

[fighting irish]

This tale seems outrageous to me and with people like this in control (of the SG) they are likely to stifle growth rather than promote it.

I wish we had a record of how many times fledgling spirits have been crushed by heavy handed authoritarian oafs, whose sole purpose is to encourage these start ups?

If the RFL have any use here it is to bring the issues to light and make both parties accountable for their actions.

Until we see more evidence of wrongdoing (other than refusing to kow tow) I say, more power to the Silverbacks! 

[Number 16]

1 hour ago, fighting irish said:

This tale seems outrageous to me and with people like this in control (of the SG) they are likely to stifle growth rather than promote it.

I wish we had a record of how many times fledgling spirits have been crushed by heavy handed authoritarian oafs, whose sole purpose is to encourage these start ups?

If the RFL have any use here it is to bring the issues to light and make both parties accountable for their actions.

Until we see more evidence of wrongdoing (other than refusing to kow tow) I say, more power to the Silverbacks! 

Great Post. 

For me it's simply a question of the SG making the charges and associated evidence known so we can all know what's going on. This apparent secrecy is undemocratic... though is the SG actually elected? 

You are correct in that the RFL should ensure that this issue is not held 'in camera'. 

[Northern Eel]

I presume there are reasons why the SG are not prepared to share that information and whilst we would all like to know, they don't need to do that publicly. I can see that the London Rep on the SG is a gentleman named Ed Baldwin. What is his opinion on this?

It is a lesser issue in the bigger situation here, but, in answer to a previous comment, I can see from group minutes in March 2019 that the £100 admin fee was requested of all clubs and that it was agreed by way of voting majority of clubs that any surplus from this fee would be donated to the Rugby League Benevolent Fund. It would be a shame to think that this wasn't seen to be a decent proposition if there was loose change at the end of a financial year. How much did this equate to in the end? That said, why charge more than you need to?

It would be helpful for communication and transparency purposes for the SG to publish the minutes of their meetings on the RFL website alongside older meeting notes (including AGM) which appear to not be up to date. One assumes these meetings took place, as per their constitution?

 

 

[BiggusMickus]

One of the biggest problems is lack of clubs in the South.

Removing one of the best isn't going to help.

In fact I spoke to Neil Reynolds at Broncos last year and he saw the over 35 supporter as his target market and that he was not in favour of supporting the idea of a Broncos Masters.

He saw us as a threat. 

With only Solent Spitfires (Hampshire), Medway Dragons (Kent) and Aldershot (also Hampshire) left then spreading the game isn't going to happen.

 

 

 

[Number 16]

1 hour ago, Northern Eel said:

Ed Baldwin. 

 

 

Bwahahahahahahaha. 

There are three main accusers.... 

If anyone has evidence then prove it. 

But the SG are hiding behind their own arcane and self-written rules? 

Self-interested Cowards one and all. 

[Northern Eel]

6 minutes ago, Number 16 said:

Bwahahahahahahaha. 

There are three main accusers.... 

Has he seen the club tour accounts? 

I was just asking from a position of ignorance. I wouldn't know the first thing about him, or what he or anyone else on the SG has or hasn't done (other than reading some minutes on the RFL website).

Good luck with the campaign though. I sincerely hope there is a rethink and there is somehow a return to the field.

[Number 16]

Serious question. 

The Masters format is a huge opportunity for RL, so... 

How is the SG appointed and what is the voting process. 

That said, there are individuals on there who are a huge benefit to our sport. 

[Northern Eel]

33 minutes ago, Number 16 said:

Serious question. 

The Masters format is a huge opportunity for RL, so... 

How is the SG appointed and what is the voting process. 

That said, there are individuals on there who are a huge benefit to our sport. 

There's a constitution here with reference to appointees/applicants etc along with details pertaining to frequency of meetings and protocols for arranging them.

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Number 16 said:

Self-interested Cowards one and all. 

The whole thread so far is coming across as bald men fighting over a comb.

[Number 16]

34 minutes ago, Northern Eel said:

There's a constitution here with reference to appointees/applicants etc along with details pertaining to frequency of meetings and protocols for arranging them.

Thanks for posting the link... 

My question is : why is everything over eighteen months old, and why haven't they posted anything related to this issue. 

 

[Number 16]

RFL... Get a grip. 

[Number 16]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

The whole thread so far is coming across as bald men fighting over a comb.

Really? So a bunch of blokes wanting to play Masters are no more than a comb over in your eyes 

[Number 16]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

The whole thread so far is coming across as bald men fighting over a comb.

So you believe that 20 to 30 blokes should be denied playing for their chosen club because of what? 

[gingerjon]

9 hours ago, Number 16 said:

So you believe that 20 to 30 blokes should be denied playing for their chosen club because of what? 

Calm down.

Regardless of how right you are, you're not going to get anywhere by updating a handful of old blokes on this thread. I assume by now that the club have either got in touch with League Express/Weekly or that reporters from there have got in touch with you? You're clearly not going to get the answers you want otherwise.

Or, given that the Steering Group/RFL appear to have taken your registration money (if I've read that right) but then denied you a service without justification, you could go down a legal route to get your money back, at which time they would need to disclose their reasons for why their actions were acceptable.

Either way, given you don't have any opponents to play at this time and there are no other clubs in your area, I'm not sure if anything is preventing you from carrying on as you were. It's not ideal but given that all that is available right now is training or intra-squad matches then nothing has really changed for you. So you can carry on playing whilst sorting things out.

Lastly, if the accusation (whatever it is) about the individual relates to actions taken in the name of the club or whilst acting on behalf of the club then that would be why the whole team is being punished. Draconian but it's a consistent theme in sport. Hence why Bradford got punished even after the owners who'd been naughty had moved on.

[tim2]

Without commenting on this actual case (as I know nothing other than what I've read on here) this story is a prime example of the reason I left the game as a volunteer and administrator over 5 years ago and have no intention of returning.

[fighting irish]

2 hours ago, tim2 said:

Without commenting on this actual case (as I know nothing other than what I've read on here) this story is a prime example of the reason I left the game as a volunteer and administrator over 5 years ago and have no intention of returning.

Now that sounds like a story tim2.

Would you be prepared to elucidate? 

[tim2]

1 hour ago, fighting irish said:

Now that sounds like a story tim2.

Would you be prepared to elucidate? 

No, nothing sinister, just incompetence and failure to see a big picture across the board that killed me off.

[Tommygilf]

7 minutes ago, tim2 said:

No, nothing sinister, just incompetence and failure to see a big picture across the board that killed me off.

Sad but unsurprising 

[BiggusMickus]

This is ALL the Masters teams in the South. 

Cardiff is in Wales (140 odd miles away).

All other clubs playing Senior Rugby haven't the manpower or older players to put out Masters teams regularly, unlike the North where the distance is the next village over, with nearly 125 years of League history. 

Running a RL club in the South is Hard. Every trick used to generate interest is frowned upon by the SG and games are attempted to be stopped. 

That's not right. We just want to play.

[BiggusMickus]

Have the SG said anything yet?

[Jonnywilko10]

“A legitimate complaint was made by the club to the RFL, they responded by saying there had been an investigation, found no case to answer and the matter was now closed

Also in the same email they informed us that the MC (Masters Committee) had had a meeting and the members had voted to terminate the club’s ‘membership‘ of Masters RL under Clause 2.2 of the Masters Constitution, which reads...”2.2 The Management Group, at their discretion and in consultation with members, shall have the right to refuse membership to any club or player.“

It was made clear that this exclusion came into immediate effect and there was no right of appeal

The Club wrote to the RFL/MC for the grounds for it’s exclusion and then a copy of the MC’s minutes at the meeting the decision was made - the club received no response from either email

The Club then approached the Southern Clubs’ Rep on the MC for clarification - she refused to discuss it, warned them not to contact her again then promptly blocked the club’s organiser from all forms of communication

The club then wrote to the RFL’s Social & Inclusion manager for the grounds for exclusion and explained the club to him, in attempt to convince him that it is in no-one’s interest for them to exclude the only Masters RL club in the capital

It has over 20 registered players, a ground-share arrangement with Blackheath RFC, full fixture list for 2020 and a social outlet and opportunity for sport for many Over 35s players - the club has more BAME players than the rest of the Masters circuit combined - all players and volunteers will be lost from the game, with some even going back to Rugby Union

The club has also got very unhappy sponsors too, who aren’t best pleased with the decision either

The club organised the first ever Masters RL to Canada last year, which was a huge success - interestingly, the MC never recognised that tour went ahead and remain in denial ever since

But the MC still want South London out and are not communicating as to why

The Masters Committee is a largely unelected ‘Steering Group’ committee in place to administer and run Masters RL on behalf of of the RFL - no other format of the sport is run in this way, so why should Masters??

The RFL can and should overturn this decision, for the integrity of the game

Masters RL should be an inclusive sport for all -  not an exclusive, invite only members club, it seemingly is 

That is the situation, I believe, it’s completely and utterly ridiculous

I also believer that the smell of litigation is in the air too, from at least 2 different parties

Not a great look from the RFL at all, particularly in their 125th Anniversary

There you go.....xx”

[Number 16]

I'm guessing that the total lack of a response to several reasonable requests is because the grounds for expulsion are extremely flimsy. If they are robust and provable then what would be the problem with detailing the grounds. 

[CanadianRugger]

Jeez is this not the most bush league thing I have ever seen.  It's a bunch of old men who happen to like playing Rugby League.  It's also the only club in the biggest city in the UK.  The politics in this sport are something else!

[gingerjon]

24 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

Jeez is this not the most bush league thing I have ever seen.  It's a bunch of old men who happen to like playing Rugby League.  It's also the only club in the biggest city in the UK.  The politics in this sport are something else!

Normally I would direct people who are confused by rugby league politics to compare it to Scottish football. But, as that is also likely to be new to you, I will simply say, "You know how the NCAA *and the Conferences* *and the schools* all love to have rules and committees ... it's like that. Only with no money."

[Jonnywilko10]

3 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Normally I would direct people who are confused by rugby league politics to compare it to Scottish football. But, as that is also likely to be new to you, I will simply say, "You know how the NCAA *and the Conferences* *and the schools* all love to have rules and committees ... it's like that. Only with no money."

Haha!! If only it was that simple...we have a situation whereby a club is being expunged from the sport, losing players, volunteers, administrators to the game and in a development area too

Purely because an unelected chairman of a committee simply doesn’t like them - you can’t run a sport like this

I hear the sponsor is taking legal action, the local MP and Sport England have been approached as well as one or two RL journalists

Or they could simply reinstate the club and save everyone the fuss

It’s social rugby for old men at the end of the day