A London Strategy

[PhilCarrington]

3 hours ago, EssexRL said:

I assume you know and you’re picking up on my typo but just in case you’re genuine: 
https://www.pilkingtonrecs.org

That club has not played at New River. Skolars lost to them in the Challenge Cup, but that game was played in St Helens. You may be thinking of Haydock who did play Wests at New River in 2017. 

[EssexRL]

10 hours ago, PhilCarrington said:

That club has not played at New River. Skolars lost to them in the Challenge Cup, but that game was played in St Helens. You may be thinking of Haydock who did play Wests at New River in 2017. 

Oh yes you’re right. Sorry. We played Recs away. Put it down to my advancing years...

[Northern Eel]

FWIW, I fundamentally believe that the only way future development of rugby league in non-heartland areas will be successful is with the bottom up approach. There are many opportunities available for the sport to seize on with Primary aged kids who, in time, become the conveyor belt for community and semi/pro rugby league for the future. 

I speak as someone who used such a strategy in Brentwood (funding was gained through Sport England and The Essex Boys Club at the time) and one who is doing the same thing in Nottinghamshire with Bassetlaw Bulldogs (volunteers only, currently). The premise of the bottom up approach is as such:

• Engage with schools to use some of their Sports Funding to provide RL sessions, either as part of the school curriculum, or an after school club
• Engage with families of schools to do the same, and use the after-school clubs across half a dozen schools to form a 'season' of fixtures
• Use those links to attract players from each of those schools to one or more satellite clubs
• As you are working with a family of schools, it is likely that many of the primary kids will go on to the same secondary school. Engaging that school in after-school provision and maintaining the numbers attending the satellite clubs at a point where data suggests there is significant drop-off is most important. The carrot of participation in the Y7 Champion Schools competition is quite a draw for schools.
• Within the satellite club, engage in social activity with regularity. Off the field, building a community where non-rugby volunteers want to give more and more of their time and players make life-long friendships and memories from the opportunities you create can only help to grow the longevity of their interest and participation in the game. 

I never really get why starting a club with, say U14s or U15s is going to magically work (understandably, it is usually because the coaches kid is that age). Again, the drop-off figures are startling at these age groups and converting their participation into open age rugby league is difficult, notwithstanding they have had far less time to develop the required skills. 

Our other approach is to be fully inclusive, and totally unapologetic about this being a rugby league club rather than something else. We go head to head with other sports and let the kids choose which they prefer, paying no notice to when other local sports make their offering.  If they want to play RL, they play RL, if they don't we don't bend over backwards to massage their egos. There's no politics involved. We have simple rules, simple expectations and demand respect at all levels

It isn't just about winning all the time, it is about investing in young people and the communities they are from. In Bassetlaw, most of our players have never picked up a rugby ball before they join us and therefore are not connected with rugby union clubs etc. Because we 'get them' when they are 5,6,7 years old through some of the systems listed above, it gives us a chance to grow their loyalty and enjoyment of the sport.

Ultimately, the best way to do this is with a community sports coach, but, alas, the funding is simply not there in the way it used to be. It has to be sought out and fought for and that takes time and tenacity - but it is out there. 

 

 

[Sports Prophet]

A heavy and long sustained investment from top down is required which is why it is so unlikely for the sport to garner momentum.

Starting with Broncos, they are quite clearly a non Super League standard club. Threadbare staff and playing out of a glorified village green, the Broncos are so far from being an enticing or inspiring prospect to entertain newcomers to our sport.

The community game witnessed its peak between 2006 - 2012. The reason for this was primarily due to the significant matched funding that saw approximately 25 FT admin and coaching staff dedicated to the London and South East region. With the benefit of hindsight, I think the managers among the list of those FT staff might make some minor amendments to their delivery over those years, the downfall, however, was the immediate cut to funding post Olympics that saw fledgling clubs that were still reliant on funded staff to swiftly contract and worse disappear. 

Unfortunately, London isn’t blessed in the same way as Melbourne is, the latter having been owned by the multi billion dollar media company that long held exclusive pay tv rights to the sport.

The unfortunate circumstance is that the sport and Broncos need such a significant financial investment that would unfortunately never be returned by competing in such a minor competition as the Super League.

[DoubleD]

On 29/08/2020 at 12:45, Northern Eel said:

FWIW, I fundamentally believe that the only way future development of rugby league in non-heartland areas will be successful is with the bottom up approach. There are many opportunities available for the sport to seize on with Primary aged kids who, in time, become the conveyor belt for community and semi/pro rugby league for the future. 

I speak as someone who used such a strategy in Brentwood (funding was gained through Sport England and The Essex Boys Club at the time) and one who is doing the same thing in Nottinghamshire with Bassetlaw Bulldogs (volunteers only, currently). The premise of the bottom up approach is as such:

• Engage with schools to use some of their Sports Funding to provide RL sessions, either as part of the school curriculum, or an after school club
• Engage with families of schools to do the same, and use the after-school clubs across half a dozen schools to form a 'season' of fixtures
• Use those links to attract players from each of those schools to one or more satellite clubs
• As you are working with a family of schools, it is likely that many of the primary kids will go on to the same secondary school. Engaging that school in after-school provision and maintaining the numbers attending the satellite clubs at a point where data suggests there is significant drop-off is most important. The carrot of participation in the Y7 Champion Schools competition is quite a draw for schools.
• Within the satellite club, engage in social activity with regularity. Off the field, building a community where non-rugby volunteers want to give more and more of their time and players make life-long friendships and memories from the opportunities you create can only help to grow the longevity of their interest and participation in the game. 

I never really get why starting a club with, say U14s or U15s is going to magically work (understandably, it is usually because the coaches kid is that age). Again, the drop-off figures are startling at these age groups and converting their participation into open age rugby league is difficult, notwithstanding they have had far less time to develop the required skills. 

Our other approach is to be fully inclusive, and totally unapologetic about this being a rugby league club rather than something else. We go head to head with other sports and let the kids choose which they prefer, paying no notice to when other local sports make their offering.  If they want to play RL, they play RL, if they don't we don't bend over backwards to massage their egos. There's no politics involved. We have simple rules, simple expectations and demand respect at all levels

It isn't just about winning all the time, it is about investing in young people and the communities they are from. In Bassetlaw, most of our players have never picked up a rugby ball before they join us and therefore are not connected with rugby union clubs etc. Because we 'get them' when they are 5,6,7 years old through some of the systems listed above, it gives us a chance to grow their loyalty and enjoyment of the sport.

Ultimately, the best way to do this is with a community sports coach, but, alas, the funding is simply not there in the way it used to be. It has to be sought out and fought for and that takes time and tenacity - but it is out there. 

 

 

Fantastic post and brilliant approach 

[RP London]

I'll bang the drum again that I have banged many times on this forum about London... Development Officers are a must.. 

When i was down playing in the mid 2000s we had them and in the South London area we had some very good DOs who worked hard at growing the game and it grew really well. We had a great day in 2006/7ish when we had 2-3 mens games and about 6 kids games being played with 2 junior clubs that were in the process of being built. Long terms plans were in place for 4 junior teams which would grow from junior levels to also have senior teams and form almost a "south london league" with the storm at the top of the mini pyramid. Unfortunately the RFL in their wisdon stopped funding the DOs and this all started to fall apart.. There are remnants of it around with the Brixton Bulls but the grand plan fell apart. 

DOs are vital to keep the clubs moving forward, when run by volunteers who are often quite transient in nature (it is london) the DO is the steadying force that keeps each new committee on the right track whilst linking the schools network in to the clubs. Unlike many areas London Committees change a lot so this steadying contact (even if the person changes the post does not) helps massively. 

Without the DOs the game has gone backwards and yet it still keeps going which tells you that there are some very dedicated souls down there, with some real help (not just words) from the RFL they really could do something. And they did back in the day so they could do it again.. it was one of the true success but as with so many things it was never given the time it needed to self fund.

[EssexRL]

On 01/09/2020 at 09:56, RP London said:

I'll bang the drum again that I have banged many times on this forum about London... Development Officers are a must.. 

When i was down playing in the mid 2000s we had them and in the South London area we had some very good DOs who worked hard at growing the game and it grew really well. We had a great day in 2006/7ish when we had 2-3 mens games and about 6 kids games being played with 2 junior clubs that were in the process of being built. Long terms plans were in place for 4 junior teams which would grow from junior levels to also have senior teams and form almost a "south london league" with the storm at the top of the mini pyramid. Unfortunately the RFL in their wisdon stopped funding the DOs and this all started to fall apart.. There are remnants of it around with the Brixton Bulls but the grand plan fell apart. 

DOs are vital to keep the clubs moving forward, when run by volunteers who are often quite transient in nature (it is london) the DO is the steadying force that keeps each new committee on the right track whilst linking the schools network in to the clubs. Unlike many areas London Committees change a lot so this steadying contact (even if the person changes the post does not) helps massively. 

Without the DOs the game has gone backwards and yet it still keeps going which tells you that there are some very dedicated souls down there, with some real help (not just words) from the RFL they really could do something. And they did back in the day so they could do it again.. it was one of the true success but as with so many things it was never given the time it needed to self fund.

I certainly agree of the value of such a post to ‘integrate’ the various elements of the game down here. Given RFLs lack of funding, what options are there? Would Broncos and Skolars support. 

[Tommygilf]

On 01/09/2020 at 09:56, RP London said:

I'll bang the drum again that I have banged many times on this forum about London... Development Officers are a must.. 

When i was down playing in the mid 2000s we had them and in the South London area we had some very good DOs who worked hard at growing the game and it grew really well. We had a great day in 2006/7ish when we had 2-3 mens games and about 6 kids games being played with 2 junior clubs that were in the process of being built. Long terms plans were in place for 4 junior teams which would grow from junior levels to also have senior teams and form almost a "south london league" with the storm at the top of the mini pyramid. Unfortunately the RFL in their wisdon stopped funding the DOs and this all started to fall apart.. There are remnants of it around with the Brixton Bulls but the grand plan fell apart. 

DOs are vital to keep the clubs moving forward, when run by volunteers who are often quite transient in nature (it is london) the DO is the steadying force that keeps each new committee on the right track whilst linking the schools network in to the clubs. Unlike many areas London Committees change a lot so this steadying contact (even if the person changes the post does not) helps massively. 

Without the DOs the game has gone backwards and yet it still keeps going which tells you that there are some very dedicated souls down there, with some real help (not just words) from the RFL they really could do something. And they did back in the day so they could do it again.. it was one of the true success but as with so many things it was never given the time it needed to self fund.

London is just as much a heartland of the game in so many respects

[RP London]

2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

London is just as much a heartland of the game in so many respects

I honestly think that there was a moment in time in the 2000s that it was about to break out especially at the junior level, it needed the RFL to stick with funding to the same level or a bit more for a few more years and it would have got to the stage it was self sustainable.. but they pulled the money. 

its a little like Wales after the 95 world cup... if the RFL had timed investment right they could have ridden a wave. With London they were building that wave and just took its legs away from it at the last minute. 

[RP London]

2 hours ago, EssexRL said:

I certainly agree of the value of such a post to ‘integrate’ the various elements of the game down here. Given RFLs lack of funding, what options are there? Would Broncos and Skolars support. 

If Broncos had the money it would be great but I think there is something to be said for being the governing bodies' DO rather than a clubs sometimes especially when talking to schools.. beggars cant be choosers and having some would be better than not but I dont think the money is going to come from the Broncos even though the investment would come back over time.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, RP London said:

I honestly think that there was a moment in time in the 2000s that it was about to break out especially at the junior level, it needed the RFL to stick with funding to the same level or a bit more for a few more years and it would have got to the stage it was self sustainable.. but they pulled the money. 

its a little like Wales after the 95 world cup... if the RFL had timed investment right they could have ridden a wave. With London they were building that wave and just took its legs away from it at the last minute. 

Story of rugby league that sadly. What a shame. I can certainly see the Wales comparison too, we really do kick ourselves in the nads sometimes 

[Archie Gordon]

My first post on here in about 12 years, I imagine.

This is a topic close to my heart. I'll leave aside the state of the pro clubs in London and also the open age community game and just focus on juniors.

I wasn't involved back in the 2006-2012 heyday but have been coaching primary/junior age groups at the Eastern Rhinos for a couple of years now. Others on here have been around longer, I think. Over my short time horizon, the number of clubs/kids involved has seemed fairly stable in the aggregate but growth/decline, sometimes spectacular, has seemed to occur at particular clubs as cohorts ebb and flow and key volunteers arrive and leave.

It has been a real shame that Covid has stopped what would have been a great season for the u16s with around 10 London League clubs active this year. Upthread someone mentioned that this age group could be lost to the game - going from playing with 15/16yo peers to open age with a lost season in between will be incredibly tough. Hopefully, they can run an u17s comp for this cohort in 2021.

There is a good DO (or similar) for London, btw, just not a team of them.

Finally, for now, if anyone on this board is in or around North Essex or Suffolk and wants to get involved in a community club, get in touch with me. If you have kids who want to take up the game, even better.

[fighting irish]

Go on Archie! 

[RP London]

14 hours ago, Archie Gordon said:

My first post on here in about 12 years, I imagine.

This is a topic close to my heart. I'll leave aside the state of the pro clubs in London and also the open age community game and just focus on juniors.

I wasn't involved back in the 2006-2012 heyday but have been coaching primary/junior age groups at the Eastern Rhinos for a couple of years now. Others on here have been around longer, I think. Over my short time horizon, the number of clubs/kids involved has seemed fairly stable in the aggregate but growth/decline, sometimes spectacular, has seemed to occur at particular clubs as cohorts ebb and flow and key volunteers arrive and leave.

It has been a real shame that Covid has stopped what would have been a great season for the u16s with around 10 London League clubs active this year. Upthread someone mentioned that this age group could be lost to the game - going from playing with 15/16yo peers to open age with a lost season in between will be incredibly tough. Hopefully, they can run an u17s comp for this cohort in 2021.

There is a good DO (or similar) for London, btw, just not a team of them.

Finally, for now, if anyone on this board is in or around North Essex or Suffolk and wants to get involved in a community club, get in touch with me. If you have kids who want to take up the game, even better.

Great work.. the ebbing and flowing of volunteers etc is a massive problem across the board, I am now coaching RU as thats what my son wanted to play here, but we have the same issue, some year groups are fine some are not. same with the number of kids, its something that, to an extent, is out of our control. Our year group is low on numbers the year above is massive, yet down the road at another local club its the opposite. 

A single DO for London (and the south really) is just too much space to cover properly, when it was really working well there was a DO manager for London & South East with each area having a separate DO under him, towards the end some clubs part funded etc but for amateur clubs that just became harder and harder. It was joined up thinking which was working.. 

You're doing a great job but how much easier would it be to have a DO who's job it was to help you out, go into schools and encourage kids to play, to help coaching when you need a weekend off, to make sure that you were all on the correct courses, to arrange tournaments between local sides etc it seems like a small thing but it makes a massive difference to the local volunteers. They also (if they are good) are aware of the new ways to get funding for clubs, the new RFL directives or Sport England funds to tap into, the local authority schemes and many more because that is their job to go and speak to those people and to be up on that sort of thing.. The one for London will do all they can and I am sure they are doing a great job, most people involved like that do as its a passion for them, but he cannot cover that large an area, that many clubs/schools, that many local authorities and still do the other things. They need to be helped. 

Long term it would change so much to have that help in place. Heartlands I am sure have their issues and could do with the help too, but the difference a few more would make in London and the South would change the game, in the medium/long term, exponentially IMHO. 

[Archie Gordon]

4 minutes ago, RP London said:

A single DO for London (and the south really) is just too much space to cover properly, when it was really working well there was a DO manager for London & South East with each area having a separate DO under him, towards the end some clubs part funded etc but for amateur clubs that just became harder and harder. It was joined up thinking which was working.. 

Your doing a great job but how much easier would it be to have a DO whos job it was to help you out, go into schools and encourage kids to play, to help coaching when you need a weekend off, to make sure that you were all on the correct courses, to arrange tournaments between local sides etc it seems like a small thing but it makes a massive difference to the local volunteers. They also (if they are good) are aware of the new ways to get funding for clubs, the new RFL directives or Sport England funds to tap into, the local authority schemes and many more because that is their job to go and speak to those people and to be up on that sort of thing.. The one for London will do all they can and I am sure they are doing a great job, most people involved like that do as its a passion for them, but he cannot cover that large an area, that many clubs/schools, that many local authorities and still do the other things, he needs to be helped. 

Yeah, all true. I think the current guy is called an area manager and great to work with but it's a team of local DOs that is lacking. The Foundation under Dan Steel covered this ground for a while but, as pointed out upthread, the Foundation has retrenched and is less active - no criticism as I know the guys, there is just less/no money around. Almost everything is now down to volunteers - and fortunately there are some really good ones across the London League clubs but if any leave it can wipe out a whole junior section if noone else steps in. 

Wouldn't like to end on a negative note and so the good news seems to be that kids are still training across the London clubs and hoping for some friendlies in October. In fact, we have bigger numbers training now than in March (but I'm always greedy for more).