Dual-registration to be abolished

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Many DR relationships only last 1 season , that would suggest conflict at many of them 

Thats why the Leeds/Fev complaints are less valid imo as they demonstrate how a relationship can be fostered positively.

I don't think we can just say "scrap it" because it will just morph the debate into the same thing with a different name and kick the can down the road. Instead we need to refine the system. Personally I think having clubs nominate say 6/7/8 players available for DR each half season could be a way to do that.

[Harry Stottle]

20 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

That is the nature of a large squad to pick from H yes

Yes when it is your own squad. Not supplemented with guest replacements.

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

My expierience, I played through when Leigh had a U 17's, under 19's and an 'A' team.

A properly run Reserves comp is a great learning ground, it is not full of kids as you and Hela describe it to be, there are the fist team fringe player's who will do anything to impress, also those 'dropped' from the first team wanting to prove a point, injured first team  players getting back to full fitness, young hopefuls giving their all to progress, and from expierence it is a very very tough enviroment.

And what better for the coach having all his available player's training together being totally familiar with the game plans and tactics he wants to utilise.

H I don't want to sound rude but that was a long time ago and things have changed. Professional sports teams don't run like larger versions of amateur clubs any more. 

In virtually every sport with a "reserves" set up there is an age limit to those teams, whether official or de facto. Reserves are development tools where clubs decide on if you're good enough or not quite quickly - they won't keep a player over 23 in the reserves because there are always younger players coming through (who cost less). Its an age grade comp with the occasional over age player in. You don't get blokes in the reserves any more and the days of a 2nd Team are basically over and are unlikely to return to pro sports.

As Hela said (and I agreed), some players benefit from reserves and some benefit from loans. Its not one size fits all. That's also true from a management perspective when viewing reserves too. Some love the idea of having all the players under one roof, some couldn't care less, some have good relationships with other coaches/clubs and want young players to experience other environments.

The basic premise of our point is that the Championship is a higher standard than a Super League reserves is. For the sake of the Championship as a competition I'm sure you would hope that would continue.

[Tommygilf]

11 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes when it is your own squad. Not supplemented with guest replacements.

DR is a squad extension tool for clubs without academies. 

[Harry Stottle]

4 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Of course they're not. Nobody has suggested that.

Fev n leigh are two clubs who have aspirations. They do their preseason recruitment. We both know what we're up against.

Then fev rock up with 5 leeds players...dwyer mclelland Newman goulding Sutcliffe etc.... mclelland was the best 7 that played inbthe championship for me and you could argue Sutcliffe the best full back.

Leigh, can either play fev with the squad they recruited preseason or balance the odds by tapping saints up. Business and sport dictate that if they want to beat fev they will pick the latter if it improves their side. 

Just get rid of the system

 

I said the very same when discussing if a replacement club was required in SL when Toronto get kicked out.

If I recall we are both of the opinion that if a team is to be promoted it should be decided on the field not around a table, it could be arranged for January giving all the interested clubs 2 months to ready themselves after the end of October when LiVolsi is shown the door. 

But with DR allowed it would become a mockery as you say all clubs would do it if one was doing it.

The only saving grace if I recall correctly is that In the 8's and play off's DR player's had to have played in I think it was a minimum of 6 games for the club in regular season games to be elegible, no clubs in the Championship have completed 6 games this season.

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

The basic premise of our point is that the Championship is a higher standard than a Super League reserves is. For the sake of the Championship as a competition I'm sure you would hope that would continue.

So you think that DR makes the Championship competitive, no DR and its lost?

[Tommygilf]

14 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Of course they're not. Nobody has suggested that.

Fev n leigh are two clubs who have aspirations. They do their preseason recruitment. We both know what we're up against.

Then fev rock up with 5 leeds players...dwyer mclelland Newman goulding Sutcliffe etc.... mclelland was the best 7 that played inbthe championship for me and you could argue goulding the best full back.

Leigh, can either play fev with the squad they recruited preseason or balance the odds by tapping saints up. Business and sport dictate that if they want to beat fev they will pick the latter if it improves their side. 

Just get rid of the system

 

The "system", whatever it is called makes no difference, is here to stay for as long as the Championship is a higher standard than SL reserves. We have to find a way to make it work better and I've suggested a few.

Forming a DR partnership is part of recruitment.

[Harry Stottle]

5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

DR is a tool. 

Amemded for clarity.

 

[Robin Evans]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

The "system", whatever it is called makes no difference, is here to stay 

I sincerely hope not

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

So you think that DR makes the Championship competitive, no DR and its lost?

Thats not the point I was making H. My point was that whilst the Championship is viewed as good place to send players on loan (superior to the reserves), clubs will continue do so. If the Super League Reserves overtakes the championship in terms of quality, then the competition will have regressed.

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Forming a DR partnership is part of recruitment.

No it isn't, it's a cop out.

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

I sincerely hope not

Long term loans with short term recall clauses, rolling loans, repeated short term loans. Its all ways around "ban DR". 

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

No it isn't, it's a cop out.

For who?

[Tommygilf]

No DR, No loans, only pure lower division squads?

Wait till SL clubs take the football example and put their reserves in the lower divisions either officially or by proxy.

[Robin Evans]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Long term loans with short term recall clauses, rolling loans, repeated short term loans. Its all ways around "ban DR". 

Anecdotally of course, barring a very small minority, almost everyone I know that follows a championship club loathes the system. Yes, get rid of DR.

[Hela Wigmen]

31 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

My expierience, I played through when Leigh had a U 17's, under 19's and an 'A' team.

A properly run Reserves comp is a great learning ground, it is not full of kids as you and Hela describe it to be, there are the fist team fringe player's who will do anything to impress, also those 'dropped' from the first team wanting to prove a point, injured first team  players getting back to full fitness, young hopefuls giving their all to progress, and from expierence it is a very very tough enviroment.

And what better for the coach having all his available player's training together being totally familiar with the game plans and tactics he wants to utilise.

You’re describing a system that hasn’t been active for years. This is pretty much what people said about reserve football. Reserve football now is woeful. 

 

[Harry Stottle]

11 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Thats not the point I was making H. My point was that whilst the Championship is viewed as good place to send players on loan (superior to the reserves), clubs will continue do so. If the Super League Reserves overtakes the championship in terms of quality, then the competition will have regressed.

Listen Tommy, I don't think you actually understand that being a fan of a club who has player's that come and go who are not belonging to the club is difficult to accept them as 'your player's'. 

It takes something away from the intrinsic value of what being a fan means, I would sooner stay in the Championship or at home on the couch than have player's coming and going who are not part of the structure of the club and don't belong.

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Anecdotally of course, barring a very small minority, almost everyone I know that follows a championship club loathes the system. Yes, get rid of DR.

I'm not surprised because there are clear flaws in it. But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater or just ban something because it sounds good as a headline but little changes in reality.

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Hela Wigmen said:

You’re describing a system that hasn’t been active for years. This is pretty much what people said about reserve football. Reserve football now is woeful. 

 

Reserve football is u23s!

[Robin Evans]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

I'm not surprised because there are clear flaws in it. But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater or just ban something because it sounds good as a headline but little changes in reality.

Credit me with more analysis than just a soundbite ffs.

[Harry Stottle]

3 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

You’re describing a system that hasn’t been active for years. This is pretty much what people said about reserve football. Reserve football now is woeful. 

 

Well it should be reincarnated it is a great system.

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

Listen Tommy, I don't think you actually understand that being a fan of a club who has player's that come and go who do not belonging to the club is difficult to accept them as 'your player's'. 

It takes something away from the intrinsic value of what being a fan means, I would sooner stay in the Championship or at home on the couch than have player's coming and going who are not part of the structure of the club and don't belong.

I literally support a club who held a "free Ben White" protest to get his parent club to sell him to us after a loan spell and then they didn't.

There are clearly problems with the system that I've never denied, but loans to the Championship and L1 aren't going away, nor are successful partnerships formed out of that.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

Well it should be reincarnated it is a great system.

Bring back rationing too we never had any fat people!

[Tommygilf]

10 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Credit me with more analysis than just a soundbite ffs.

I not being funny mate but "ban DR" doesn't deal with the issues at the heart of it and only kicks that can down the road in ways I've previously posted.

Squads aren't big enough in the Championship for clubs without academies. We don't have big enough SL squads to have the loan system football has. SL reserves are in the genesis stage at best and several clubs have their doubts anyway. Some players benefit massively from playing in the championship prior to making the Super League teams.

[Robin Evans]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I not being funny mate but "ban DR" doesn't deal with the issues at the heart of it and only kicks that can down the road in ways I've previously posted.

Squads aren't big enough in the Championship for clubs without academies. 

Its a SL issue mate. Squads are big enough in the Championship. Fans down here in the sludge have to put up with it cos SL can't deal with the problem they have.