Dual-registration to be abolished

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, silverback said:

He wore a BATLEY shirt fella. first seen running up slope with 4 fellas on his back trying to tackle him..lol.     Limit loans to a max of  2 for a season and it will work.Bin DR for good.

Well, actually first seen playing for Dewsbury Celtic and then Leeds Met, but anyway do you see how it gets very tedious and pointless arguing for "local lads" first? I agree Championship clubs should prioritise their own players first, but DR isn't the big bad its made out to be imo.

Putting a small hard cap on loanees is silly given the nature of sport. Loans are increasingly a part of 2nd and 3rd division sport, particularly where promotion is concerned, and are mutually beneficial. 

In any case I think if you banned DR clubs would find a way around it. For example the rules are now that a loan has to be at least 4weeks/1 month long, but after that is on a week to week basis. That month can be covered by preseason games and then effectively we're on DR terms! 

I think we should identify the problems with DR and adapt the system rather than just saying "its rubbish" and then putting our fingers in our ears. 

Perhaps Super League clubs should nominate "x number" players they will make available for DR each half season, meaning SL veterans aren't randomly parachuted in on a whim (not that it regularly happens anyway but to keep people like your good self happy) and that the reserves are used for warm up games not the championship.

Long term loans are unlikely as the vast majority of clubs in the Championship are part time.

[Robin Evans]

1 hour ago, Hela Wigmen said:

How does it give a team an advantage? One argument is always how late these players are dropped into these teams. They barely get a training session or two to slot into a side, if anything, I’d imagine it makes more of an issue. 

The dissolution of what you think identity is not down to the system of DR though, is it? No one forces you into it and teams’ turnover is pretty high anyway, so how much identity does a team truly have?

The lateness of players being dropped in is an issue and I’d hope under a revised plan, there would be something that could be done that a) gave a player valuable game time b) provided a decent player to a club but c) also had some form of flexibility should the lending team require them back. 

A Super League reserve competition is always going to be a lower standard than the top end of the Championship. 

Aye.... as I said, we disagree.

[DEANO]

Dual reg is 100% in favour of super greed

[Tex Evans Thigh]

It makes me laugh when Fev get hammered for their use of DR when in reality they have just done it well. Pretty much every club has done it and why wouldnt they? A source of FT players to supplement your squad, cost savings, probably better players etc. A PT club is going to take advantage of that if they can.

I agree with most that it's a horrible system. Makes championship clubs lazy, reinforces their subservience to SL and more often than not simply serves to just give SL reserve graders game time. Get rid and just retain the loan system. If a club is lending another club a player, make it a defined thing for a period of time. 

Fev apparently pay Leeds 60k a year for their relationship which allows players to train together, coaching exchanges etc. As a result you get that integration and the players coming over buy in. The trouble with that is, you are accepting you are Leeds reserve team essentially, which as a Fev fan I hate. Most of our DR from Leeds have been long term, so just loan them and get rid of the farce of a player turning up for a game here and there. 

[Tommygilf]

4 hours ago, DEANO said:

Dual reg is 100% in favour of super greed

So why do so many Championship and L1 clubs sign up to it??

[Tommygilf]

59 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

It makes me laugh when Fev get hammered for their use of DR when in reality they have just done it well. Pretty much every club has done it and why wouldnt they? A source of FT players to supplement your squad, cost savings, probably better players etc. A PT club is going to take advantage of that if they can.

I agree with most that it's a horrible system. Makes championship clubs lazy, reinforces their subservience to SL and more often than not simply serves to just give SL reserve graders game time. Get rid and just retain the loan system. If a club is lending another club a player, make it a defined thing for a period of time. 

Fev apparently pay Leeds 60k a year for their relationship which allows players to train together, coaching exchanges etc. As a result you get that integration and the players coming over buy in. The trouble with that is, you are accepting you are Leeds reserve team essentially, which as a Fev fan I hate. Most of our DR from Leeds have been long term, so just loan them and get rid of the farce of a player turning up for a game here and there. 

Agree with this mate.

[DEANO]

4 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

So why do so many Championship and L1 clubs sign up to it??

Because if one does and has an advantage everyone has to follow to keep up. Take it away and you have a level playing field

[Tommygilf]

30 minutes ago, DEANO said:

Because if one does and has an advantage everyone has to follow to keep up. Take it away and you have a level playing field

So its not all about "Super Greed" then, as there is material benefits to Championship and League 1 clubs. 

Glad we cleared that up!

[DEANO]

8 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

So its not all about "Super Greed" then, as there is material benefits to Championship and League 1 clubs. 

Glad we cleared that up!

Designed to make it look like it’s helping the championship when in fact it’s just keeping fringe/ injured players fit at the expense of someone who’s been training all week

[Harry Stottle]

On 01/10/2020 at 17:05, Hela Wigmen said:

I think there’s a place for something similar to DR in the game, though the execution of DR has been poor. 

It worked for Saints last season with all the expierence it gave to a number of your younger player's at Leigh, but as a fan of Leigh and watching them I always felt that it was a false experience, as I have stated in the past on this subject if I was a player who had trained hard to play and the boss said to me I am standing you down this week I have a guest player coming in my simple answer would be "Bye Bye transfer please"

[Harry Stottle]

22 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Exactly. There’s some players who definitely need DR but are probably too advanced in their development for a lower standard reserve competition and aren’t available to be sent out on a season-long loan on a deal that only suits the receiving party. 

Josh Simm is an example for that for Saints. He’s probably too good for a reserve competition and is cover for any injuries or suspensions we have so a DR with Leigh, as he had last year and looked to have done well there and stepped into our team this year without many issues, would do him well. 

Whereas Nico Rizzelli, I’m told by someone who watches a lot of Saints junior levels, is not ready for a DR spell and the reserves would have been a better place for him this year, with 2021 looked at maybe getting him out on DR. 

 

21 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

100%. We do have a certain one size fits all mentality in the game which isn't particularly helpful.

I don't see why a mixture isn't possible, indeed it seems to be what Leeds were planning on doing. The academy is now at u18s level, reduced from u19s, and our reserves are openly our u19s rebadged. Players that progress beyond that will be made available to Fev or other loan partners. Whether that will change going forward I'm not sure.

Can I please ask you both what is your expierence of 'A' team reserve rugby league?

[GUBRATS]

22 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

It worked for Saints last season with all the expierence it gave to a number of your younger player's at Leigh, but as a fan of Leigh and watching them I always felt that it was a false experience, as I have stated in the past on this subject if I was a player who had trained hard to play and the boss said to me I am standing you down this week I have a guest player coming in my simple answer would be "Bye Bye transfer please"

I have to agree Harry , as somebody who doesn't religiously follow the local Leigh Centurions media with regards team selections it was confusing each week to find the team constantly changing , and as you say , it isn't fair on the player asked to stand down , and then having to come in and try to impress knowing that the following week they might miss out again 

Not a fan 

[Harry Stottle]

Another anomaly that DR creates is if a player gets sent off and receives a suspension the club is not penalised by having a player short for selection, just get another guest in to fill his spot. Simple.

 

 

[Tommygilf]

16 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

 

Can I please ask you both what is your expierence of 'A' team reserve rugby league?

Can I ask you yours?

I honestly don't see what point you could make from that. I've been in B teams and 2nd teams before as well as first teams and seen my professional teams academy team become our reserves.

Or, I could say I've watched a few Championship games

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, DEANO said:

Designed to make it look like it’s helping the championship when in fact it’s just keeping fringe/ injured players fit at the expense of someone who’s been training all week

Training all week? And I thought they were part timers! 

[Tommygilf]

6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Another anomaly that DR creates is if a player gets sent off and receives a suspension the club is not penalised by having a player short for selection, just get another guest in to fill his spot. Simple.

 

 

That is the nature of a large squad to pick from H yes

[Tommygilf]

8 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I have to agree Harry , as somebody who doesn't religiously follow the local Leigh Centurions media with regards team selections it was confusing each week to find the team constantly changing , and as you say , it isn't fair on the player asked to stand down , and then having to come in and try to impress knowing that the following week they might miss out again 

Not a fan 

Nobody is forcing the Championship sides to play any DR players, they must only be getting a shot because they are better than what's available. 

[Harry Stottle]

10 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

So why do so many Championship and L1 clubs sign up to it??

Because it is easy to do so.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

Because it is easy to do so.

Surely meaning it works for both parties?

[Tommygilf]

One DR example I didn't like at all was Doncaster's relationship with Hull FC. We joke about Fev being Leeds reserves, but Donny were genuinely treated as a farm team. The coach was a Hull FC employee and the identity of the club was brought into question. That said Hull FC have been one of the major drivers of a reserve league so read into that what you will.

That's DR to the extreme and is clearly not good. It shows how club management are crucial to how a relationship develops.

[GUBRATS]

9 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Training all week? And I thought they were part timers! 

Part time at Leigh is 5 training sessions a week before a Sunday game 

[Tommygilf]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

Part time at Leigh is 5 training sessions a week before a Sunday game 

Thats more than Super League teams do!

[GUBRATS]

5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

One DR example I didn't like at all was Doncaster's relationship with Hull FC. We joke about Fev being Leeds reserves, but Donny were genuinely treated as a farm team. The coach was a Hull FC employee and the identity of the club was brought into question. That said Hull FC have been one of the major drivers of a reserve league so read into that what you will.

That's DR to the extreme and is clearly not good. It shows how club management are crucial to how a relationship develops.

Many DR relationships only last 1 season , that would suggest conflict at many of them 

[Harry Stottle]

7 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Can I ask you yours?

I honestly don't see what point you could make from that. I've been in B teams and 2nd teams before as well as first teams and seen my professional teams academy team become our reserves.

Or, I could say I've watched a few Championship games

My expierience, I played through when Leigh had a U 17's, under 19's and an 'A' team.

A properly run Reserves comp is a great learning ground, it is not full of kids as you and Hela describe it to be, there are the fist team fringe player's who will do anything to impress, also those 'dropped' from the first team wanting to prove a point, injured first team  players getting back to full fitness, young hopefuls giving their all to progress, and from expierence it is a very very tough enviroment.

And what better for the coach having all his available player's training together being totally familiar with the game plans and tactics he wants to utilise.

[Robin Evans]

24 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Nobody is forcing the Championship sides to play any DR players, they must only be getting a shot because they are better than what's available. 

Of course they're not. Nobody has suggested that.

Fev n leigh are two clubs who have aspirations. They do their preseason recruitment. We both know what we're up against.

Then fev rock up with 5 leeds players...dwyer mclelland Newman goulding Sutcliffe etc.... mclelland was the best 7 that played inbthe championship for me and you could argue goulding the best full back.

Leigh, can either play fev with the squad they recruited preseason or balance the odds by tapping saints up. Business and sport dictate that if they want to beat fev they will pick the latter if it improves their side. 

Just get rid of the system