The Transfer Rumour Mill Thread

[Gates1]

7 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

High Gates thank you for your considered response.

Do you think there will be any consequence attendance wise to what I term as 'games of no meaning'? As you point out it will matter little on IMG's points matrix, but it could mean a hell of a lot to a club if say a number of fans dropped off going, based on say an average spend for admittance and a drink or a bite to eat at £25/person that would be £25K/1000 people.

Is it feasible that a club such as yours if you are trading 'Team building for Buisness Decisions' and because of that consequently being at the bottom end of the league getting attendances of 5000 instead of 7000 that would be on my example £50,000 loss per home game, thoughts please.

I definitely think there is a risk that gates could drop if a) a team is playing badly and b) playing in meaningless games for a large part of the season! Obviously with relegation a) didnt neccesarily mean b) - but it will next season.

Reduced spending on players makes this more likely (you've only got to look back at Milwards final year at Cas to see how that played out previously, 3.5k attendances for a couple of games from memory).  That could actually also reduce the IMG rating based on the financial indicators too.

The whole thing is going to be a massive juggling act for a team like Cas imo.  (I'd much rather we took our chances in a world with relegation to be honest!)

In my experience attendances at Cas are primarily effected by the following:

- team performance, not just results but how the team is playing and whether it's entertaining;

- how meaningful a game is;

- the day and time of the match;

- whether its on tv;

- the opposition;

As you say the first two are a definite risk (although I think we will perform better or at least be more entertaining than last year).

We don't even know as yet, when games are likely to be played in line with the TV schedule or how games are going to be shown, which is criminal in my opinion, when clubs are trying to sell season tickets.

Loop fixtures can effect the final point (not sure if these have been announced yet), Cas will already be down on gates having lost a local derby fixture to a game against London (probably need to account for 50k-70k or so less income than last year based on that alone).  Add the TV deal reduction, ect!

It's a really complex situation.  

On Cas specifically and the reduced playing budget,  I don't see this solely as a cost cutting or grading decision.  I set out in an earlier post some of the ethos which I think is in play.

I'd also question how much spending, say another 400k, which is my (uniformed, complete) guess at the level of wage bill reduction, would help Cas next season.  How many league positions would that buy? (Finishing 9th instead of 10th or 11th at best is my guess). Just to add some context to that statement:

Yhe Cas squad from last season was appalling, old, yerrible value and needed a full revamp.  You've only got to look at how many off the leaving players will be in SL next year....off the top of my head- Evalds, Eden and Hudson (who hasnt played SL game yet).

Alot of our recruitment was done early/mid season (fortunately), the likes of Putt, Sims, Wood, Namo, El Zhakem where signed up for next season.  This was when Wakey looked like absolute certs for relegation.

Wakey then picked up, Cas looked 50/50 for relegation, making any recruitment tough.  We managed to get Horne and Tasipale in and contracted for next year (releasing and probably, paying off some players, to do so, as we needed quota spots).  But beyond that Cas couldn't feasably do any notable recruitment, in the latter third of the season, with the threat of relegation looming.

It was only a week before the end of the season Cas had assured survival and could recruit effectively again.  At this point we had no quota spots left and there was very little domestic talent available for next year (hence signing Kabula to be honest).

The club are trying to get rid of Vete to free up his quota spot (this will cost money, although he is refusing at present) - replacing him will also add to the spend.   But other than that, with no quota spots,  there isnt really anyone to spend it on.  Bringing in players on multi year contracts for the sake of it, will impact on next year's ability to recruit.  Cas have also said they will go into the market mid season if players are available.

So the reducing budget this year makes sense to me on a number of levels. 

That been said I do agree if performances are so bad that attendences suffer the cost could outweigh the savings (albeit I think spending more would have a limited impact anyway as a result of last year's predicament and the subsequent recruitment issues).

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Gates1

[Harry Stottle]

15 hours ago, Catflap said:

Things look to be shaping up well at Fev after their disasterous end to the season. Apparently Danny Addy will be added soon and then there's speculation that Hardaker wants to play for his favourite club  

If Hardacre does leave Leigh, I am sure that we can improve on him in the centre position from down under, we will most probably have space available with the non feds.

[Harry Stottle]

15 hours ago, Damien said:

I compared the last year of p&r before licensing with the first year of licensing. The period when you said you lost 1000 fans.  I'm not sure why you'd want me to try 4/5 years later long after licensing had finished.

Have a look at the figs for the first year back in P&R with the licensing years for comparrison.

[Damien]

40 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Have a look at the figs for the first year back in P&R with the licensing years for comparrison.

I don't need to. The argument was that they dropped because of licensing so I will compare those years and like for like.

Trying to move the timeframe when that argument is shown to be flawed, rather conveniently to when Leigh get an attendance boost from playing in a brand new all seater stadium and Beaumont starts to splash the cash, isn't like for like.

Edited October 21, 2023 by Damien

[Chrispmartha]

5 minutes ago, Damien said:

I don't need to. The argument was that they dropped because of licensing so I will compare those years and like.

Trying to move the timeframe when that argument is shown to be flawed, rather conveniently to when Leigh get an attendance boost from playing in a brand new all seater stadium and Beaumont starts to splash the cash, isn't like for like.

We can cherry pick any years and make the stats fit any argument.

The structure has never really had any really meaningful effect on average attendances, theres too many other factors in it to consider.

[Harry Stottle]

3 minutes ago, Damien said:

I don't need to. The argument was that they dropped because of licensing so I will compare those years and like.

Trying to move the timeframe when that argument is shown to be flawed, rather conveniently to when Leigh get an attendance boost from playing in a brand new all seater stadium and Beaumont starts to splash the cash, isn't like for like.

Initially the discussion was Licenced years v Non Licensed years and how some expect attendances will be affected under the IMG system with no on-field Promotion available. Those of us who went to watch Leigh in that time - 6 years of it - related their expierience.

You decided to take one year out of those 6 but when challenged to look at another year dismiss it as not relevant, Touche Damien.

[Chrispmartha]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Initially the discussion was Licenced years v Non Licensed years and how some expect attendances will be affected under the IMG system with no on-field Promotion available. Those of us who went to watch Leigh in that time - 6 years of it - related their expierience.

You decided to take one year out of those 6 but when challenged to look at another year dismiss it as not relevant, Touche Damien.

But its not just about Leigh, especially as they aren’t going to be in the Championship under IMG

[Damien]

8 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Initially the discussion was Licenced years v Non Licensed years and how some expect attendances will be affected under the IMG system with no on-field Promotion available. Those of us who went to watch Leigh in that time - 6 years of it - related their expierience.

You decided to take one year out of those 6 but when challenged to look at another year dismiss it as not relevant, Touche Damien.

No I replied to a post that said they dropped by 1000. They clearly didn't. Now you want to move timeframes to when Leigh play in a new all seater stadium add Beaumont splashes the cash to add even more variable to suit. Its laughable.

Edited October 21, 2023 by Damien

[Damien]

7 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

But its not just about Leigh, especially as they aren’t going to be in the Championship under IMG

With Harry it is always just about Leigh.

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, Chrispmartha said:

But its not just about Leigh, especially as they aren’t going to be in the Championship under IMG

It happens to be that I actually care what happens to the Championship unlike a lot of fans of SL clubs who are so insular in their thinking, it doesn't matter to me that Leigh are not in the Championship.

Grow up Chris, Damien is the one who has put Leigh under the microscope in this thread, when a couple of Leigh fans responded to the notion through their expierience that no on field promotion in this IMG system would result in reduced attendances in the Championship.

[Damien]

18 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

We can cherry pick any years and make the stats fit any argument.

The structure has never really had any really meaningful effect on average attendances, theres too many other factors in it to consider.

Of course you can cherry pick. However when someone says they dropped by 1000 it is quite obvious to compare the two years when that drop was supposed to take place. That's not cherry picking.

[Harry Stottle]

7 minutes ago, Damien said:

No I replied to a post that said they dropped by 1000. They clearly didn't. Now you want to move timeframes to when Leigh play in a new all seater stadium add Beaumont splashes the cash to add even more variable to suit. Its laughable.

Leigh moved into the LSV in 2009.

But you play it your way.

[Damien]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

It happens to be that I actually care what happens to the Championship unlike a lot of fans of SL clubs who are so insular in their thinking, it doesn't matter to me that Leigh are not in the Championship.

Grow up Chris, Damien is the one who has put Leigh under the microscope in this thread, when a couple of Leigh fans responded to the notion through their expierience that no on field promotion in this IMG system would result in reduced attendances in the Championship.

No I replied to a post about Leigh. That is clear. Stop making things up Harry. You are only now moaning because it contradicts your myopic view.

[Harry Stottle]

4 minutes ago, Damien said:

With Harry it is always just about Leigh.

Cough Damien.

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

It happens to be that I actually care what happens to the Championship unlike a lot of fans of SL clubs who are so insular in their thinking, it doesn't matter to me that Leigh are not in the Championship.

Grow up Chris, Damien is the one who has put Leigh under the microscope in this thread, when a couple of Leigh fans responded to the notion through their expierience that no on field promotion in this IMG system would result in reduced attendances in the Championship.

Harry, no need for the grow up comments, nothing I wrote was childish, and to suggest i don’t care about the championship is incorrect.

What I am saying is that histshows tgat over the last 20odd years the structure of the leagues hasn’t really affected average attendances in any meaningful way, Leigh’s attendances only tell one very small part of the picture.

[Chrispmartha]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

Of course you can cherry pick. However when someone says they dropped by 1000 it is quite obvious to compare the two years when that drop was supposed to take place. That's not cherry picking.

I agree with you.

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

No I replied to a post about Leigh. That is clear. Stop making things up Harry. You are only now moaning because it contradicts your myopic view.

I should know better than question a Grand Piemaster.

Edited October 21, 2023 by Harry Stottle

[Damien]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

I should know better than question a Grand Piemaster.

Why thank you, I'm honoured by such a title 

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Leigh’s attendances only tell one very small part of the picture.

And that was the statement, what our expierence was over the 6 year period of licensed years.

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

Why thank you, I'm honoured by such a title 

Then I shall refer to you as such in future.

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

I agree with you.

I just think that there are far too many variables at play to be able to definitively say that licensing caused a huge rise or fall.

[NRLandSL]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

If Hardacre does leave Leigh, I am sure that we can improve on him in the centre position from down under, we will most probably have space available with the non feds.

There are a few options for Leigh, Waqa Blake would be the main priority, Corey Allen and Braidon Burns are very solid players who are available, and Brenko Lee is also searching for a new club but he wouldn't be the first choice.

Also a rouge shout of Matthieu Laguerre, I thought he was really impressive when playing for Catalans but he has been pushed out of the first team and i assume he will be looking for a new club.

Edited October 21, 2023 by NRLandSL

[Chrispmartha]

7 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

And that was the statement, what our expierence was over the 6 year period of licensed years.

It was 3 years wasn’t it?

[John Drake]

This thread has drifted a bit!

Time to lock it, I think.

If you want to discuss transfer rumours, start a new thread.

If you want to argue about licensing, I think there are about a dozen others you can join. They grow like topsy, those things.