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RL clubs with football clubs as rivals


Eddie

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The 2022/23 football season is going well so far. In the championship Huddersfield and Wigan fill the bottom two places while Hull City are also struggling. Rochdale look like they’re pulling away from trouble in league two which is disappointing, though Bradford are far from assured a play off spot. Meanwhile in the conference York and Halifax are the epitome of mid table mediocrity and Oldham are teetering above the relegation zone.
 

I haven’t included Barrow or Salford in this pointless summary as I don’t think there’s any kind of rivalry with the eponymous rugby league teams? 

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27 minutes ago, Eddie said:

The 2022/23 football season is going well so far. In the championship Huddersfield and Wigan fill the bottom two places while Hull City are also struggling. Rochdale look like they’re pulling away from trouble in league two which is disappointing, though Bradford are far from assured a play off spot. Meanwhile in the conference York and Halifax are the epitome of mid table mediocrity and Oldham are teetering above the relegation zone.
 

I haven’t included Barrow or Salford in this pointless summary as I don’t think there’s any kind of rivalry with the eponymous rugby league teams? 

So you think the only way for RL in these places to thrive is for the soccer team to crumble? and is impossible to have two good sports teams. Doesn't say much for your faith in RL. Sad.😪

Edited by HawkMan
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9 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

So you think the only way for RL in these places to thrive is for the soccer team to crumble? and is impossible to have two good sports teams. Doesn't say much for your faith in RL. Sad.😪

No I don’t think that, it wasn’t a serious post. However now you say it, there is a fairly clear correlation between the two. 

Edited by Eddie
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17 minutes ago, Eddie said:

No I don’t think that, it wasn’t a serious post. However now you say it, there is a fairly clear correlation between the two. 

If you really believe that then Newcastle Thunder may as well pack up as Newcastle Arabia, sorry United have become potentially the richest sports franchise on the planet. 

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2 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

If you really believe that then Newcastle Thunder may as well pack up as Newcastle Arabia, sorry United have become potentially the richest sports franchise on the planet. 

Do you know what a correlation is? Anyway the thread wasn’t meant to be taken seriously. 

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6 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

If you really believe that then Newcastle Thunder may as well pack up as Newcastle Arabia, sorry United have become potentially the richest sports franchise on the planet. 

However as you have taken it seriously;

Newcastle Utd and Thunder are not rivals in any shape or form, and never have been. 
 

St Helens and Warrington certainly benefit from not having a football league team in town. 
 

Many RL clubs (Hull, Halifax, York, Oldham, Wigan, Rochdale, Huddersfield) have suffered because of the actions of the football clubs who they share(d) a ground with. 
 

It’s been said many times in this forum that Leeds Rhinos crowds have suffered since Leeds Utd are back in the top flight. 
 

So yes there is a clear correlation between the relative success of the football teams and RL teams. 

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1 minute ago, Eddie said:


 

Many RL clubs (Hull, Halifax, York, Oldham, Wigan, Rochdale, Huddersfield) have suffered because of the actions of the football clubs who they share(d) a ground with. 

m

Most of those suffered because they sold up and left grounds they owned or had decent leases on. 

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30 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

There is a bit of link but it is largely lack of or conflicts over infrastructure. If the Football Super League had happened football would crash in value and a lot of clubs would be desperate for other income streams.

If someone with a bit of cash wanted some symbiotic realationship Oldham would be ideal. That football club is not getting bk to the FL any time soon and a town starved of success could attract decent crowds to a championship rugby league team that actually plays in the same stadium every year. 

Problem is were Oldham AFC to get back to FL you would need to ensure your protection was tight. 

Oldham are drawing very good crowds (relatively speaking) under new ownership and are definitely targeting promotion back to the Football League. 

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Just now, ShropshireBull said:

I know but they are in a league rammed with clubs bankrolled by millionaires or with crowds as strong as theirs. With one automatic promotion place. They are more likely to end up in conference north than back in FL next two seasons. And once the FL parachute money goes, they will need other revenue streams. 

No different than Rochdale, the league club suddenly become a decent option were Dale to lose their FL funding if you could get a stake in the ground because the Football Team will be desperate for cash. 

They’re really not more likely to get relegated than promoted, as one of the biggest clubs in that division. It’s tough to get out of but on a steadier footing than six months ago, they’ll be alright. 

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1 hour ago, Eddie said:

The 2022/23 football season is going well so far. In the championship Huddersfield and Wigan fill the bottom two places while Hull City are also struggling. Rochdale look like they’re pulling away from trouble in league two which is disappointing, though Bradford are far from assured a play off spot. Meanwhile in the conference York and Halifax are the epitome of mid table mediocrity and Oldham are teetering above the relegation zone.
 

I haven’t included Barrow or Salford in this pointless summary as I don’t think there’s any kind of rivalry with the eponymous rugby league teams? 

Hull City have just changed managers and won mid week so don't you worry about them. York City spent around 5 years in the league below and were promoted this year so mid table is not bad form either.

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7 minutes ago, CRZ said:

Hull City have just changed managers and won mid week so don't you worry about them. York City spent around 5 years in the league below and were promoted this year so mid table is not bad form either.

York should be a league club really. I have no doubt they’ll be back sooner or later, like most of the traditional league clubs who’ve dropped into non-league. 

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I don't think there is any value in wishing ill on another sport, it is pretty mean spirited and doesn't delivery any value to our spo

Oh, wait.  I forgot about Rugby Union.

Edited by Dunbar
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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Tbh this could have been a good thread. 

Top of my head including no direct conflict of interest.

Wigan 

Huddersfield

Salford 

Leeds 

Hull KR and Hull FC 

Toulouse

Bradford 

York 

Rochdale 

Workington 

London Skolars 

London Broncos 

Oldham 

Newcastle

Barrow

Midlands Hurricanes 

Halifax

Sheffield

Doncaster

 

 

 

 

 

Like poor jokes? Thejoketeller@mullymessiah

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3 hours ago, Eddie said:

The 2022/23 football season is going well so far. In the championship Huddersfield and Wigan fill the bottom two places while Hull City are also struggling. Rochdale look like they’re pulling away from trouble in league two which is disappointing, though Bradford are far from assured a play off spot. Meanwhile in the conference York and Halifax are the epitome of mid table mediocrity and Oldham are teetering above the relegation zone.
 

I haven’t included Barrow or Salford in this pointless summary as I don’t think there’s any kind of rivalry with the eponymous rugby league teams? 

No kind of rivalry between Barrow's rugby league and football clubs? Have you ever been to Furness?

Of the football clubs you mention, take a look at their 2022-23 average league attendances. In general, the 'rival' rugby league clubs would give their eye teeth for such crowds. Football appears to be winning, comfortably, the battle for hearts and minds. Best hope the football clubs don't start doing well, eh?!

Barrow 3,538, Bradford City 17,222, FC Halifax Town 2,242, Huddersfield Town 18,680, Hull City 16,990, Oldham Athletic 7,307, Rochdale 2,837, Salford City 2,902, Wigan Athletic 11,215, York City 4,915.

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2 hours ago, Eddie said:

However as you have taken it seriously;

Newcastle Utd and Thunder are not rivals in any shape or form, and never have been. 
 

St Helens and Warrington certainly benefit from not having a football league team in town. 
 

Many RL clubs (Hull, Halifax, York, Oldham, Wigan, Rochdale, Huddersfield) have suffered because of the actions of the football clubs who they share(d) a ground with. 
 

It’s been said many times in this forum that Leeds Rhinos crowds have suffered since Leeds Utd are back in the top flight. 
 

So yes there is a clear correlation between the relative success of the football teams and RL teams. 

Plenty of FC Halifax Town supporters would take issue with your claim about a detrimental effect on the rugby league club. If anything, the boot is on the other foot.

If it weren't for York City agreeing a groundshare at Bootham Crescent, York City Knights (as was) would have spent several seasons playing either at Heworth ARLFC or York RUFC's Clifton Park!

Weren't Rochdale Hornets so skint, they sold their third (?) share in Spotland Stadium?

Maybe this is a case of 'what goes around, comes around'. Back in the mists of time, the RFL banned the playing of football/soccer on its grounds.

Edited by Hopping Mad
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Football is way more popular than any other sport on the planet. It's not surprising the football attendance is higher than the RL attendance. Similarly the RL attendance is greater than the RU attendance in those towns.

In my opinion the RL club(s) should never have sold their stadia to goundshare with the football team - first step on the road to oblivion? Discuss.

Presumably it made sense at the time.

Is there much rivalry between the football and RL teams? I would have thought that inhabitants of those places would be happy to see both teams succeed.

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23 minutes ago, hw88 said:

Football is way more popular than any other sport on the planet. It's not surprising the football attendance is higher than the RL attendance. Similarly the RL attendance is greater than the RU attendance in those towns.

In my opinion the RL club(s) should never have sold their stadia to goundshare with the football team - first step on the road to oblivion? Discuss.

Presumably it made sense at the time.

Is there much rivalry between the football and RL teams? I would have thought that inhabitants of those places would be happy to see both teams succeed.

In some cases, sharing with the football club was the only way rugby league clubs could gain access to modern facilities (both sports offered grant aid for new stadia/stadium improvements).

Oldham RLFC must hold some sort of record for sharing with football clubs (OAFC, Ashton United, Stalybridge Celtic, Oldham Town, Avro). For Roughyeds, selling Watersheddings to a housing developer, whilst apparently relying on continuing good relations with OAFC, was indeed the first step on the road to oblivion (or, at least, to attendances shrinking by nine-tenths).

In my experience, in a lot of places, few spectators watch both football and rugby league teams. My family relocated to Calderdale in 1973. The local rivalries meant nothing to us, so we'd go to The Shay and to Thrum Hall (and, for that matter, to Leeds Road and to Fartown). Didn't see many of the same faces at both sports. Given the poor - some might say toxic - relationship between the Halifax clubs since the rugby league started sharing the football ground, that's become even more apparent. 

As a spectator sport, rugby union in Yorkshire barely exists. On a good day, Doncaster will get a thousand. After that, you're down to 350 at Otley, 250 at Huddersfield and Wharfedale, 150 at Harrogate and York etc. Don't know what Leeds Tykes get now they've fled to the city's outermost suburb because I ain't been.

Edited by Hopping Mad
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I imagine there is most typically friction either where clubs ground share or where the default roles are reversed - ie where the RL club is bigger than or similar sized to the soccer club. (Obviously the soccer club itself needs to be of some size too). 

In Wigan you've got both going on and it is probably the most toxic of all the relationships. Give soccer fans something to be chippy about and they'll latch onto it. 

In Leeds in contrast everyone seems to be quite chilled about things.

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