Disciplinary Panel

[Dave T]

49 minutes ago, Desert Skipper said:

But that’s putting into context elbow. Social media isn’t for that, nor is it for protecting genuine victims of targeted abuse. It’s about signalling virtues and getting likes for it, even though every single poster on here is capable of such indiscretions in the heat of the moment.

I always enjoy these posts. As though somehow those who want serious punishment for these offences are the problem. 

Piers Morgan would be proud. 

[Dave T]

6 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

The sport should have decided when they made a song and dance of "banning" Ben Barba, where the line was, but didn't bother.

The RFL are cowards around stuff like this. They are scared of making a stand as it makes their job harder as they want to still be able to hire these players who get sacked from the NRL in disgrace. 

That said, they aren't the only governing body who shy away from tackling things like this. 

[ELBOWSEYE]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

I always enjoy these posts. As though somehow those who want serious punishment for these offences are the problem. 

Piers Morgan would be proud. 

My god Dave thats one hell of a high moral platform your preaching from, can you see us Piers Morgan look alikes all the way down here. I don't think society will reach those levels in my lifetime and RL certainly won't. 

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

My god Dave thats one hell of a high moral platform your preaching from, can you see us Piers Morgan look alikes all the way down here. I don't think society will reach those levels in my lifetime and RL certainly won't. 

Feel free to lump yourself in with Desert Skipper who called this virtue signalling and dismissed my view as being one for social media likes. 

That's your choice though, I didn't mention you. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Dave T

[dkw]

Some absolutely pathetic whataboutism in this thread.

[ELBOWSEYE]

2 minutes ago, dkw said:

Some absolutely pathetic whataboutism in this thread.

Is that an actual word?.

[Desert Skipper]

21 minutes ago, Dave T said:

You'd be wrong. I know that for a fact as I have called for serious punishment for sexual assault. And I wasn't the only one. 

So, you've just made all that up. 

You called for Makinson to be sacked and sent packing from our game like you suggest for McGuire? Fair enough if you posted that. My claim wasn’t targeted at you individually but I applaud you for having consistency.

Re: My ‘made-up’ claim about betting most of the ‘outraged’ posters on here having Makinson as their RLWC wing choice despite their stance on such indiscretions… I’ll trawl though the World Cup threads later and have a look. Then we’ll know either way.

[Barry Badrinath]

28 minutes ago, Dave T said:

You'd be wrong. I know that for a fact as I have called for serious punishment for sexual assault. And I wasn't the only one. 

So, you've just made all that up. 

i've also said in the past, i was surprised that some of the things that we've seen in recent years haven't been classified as sexual assault, and treated that little bit more seriously on top of the disciplinary process.

 

 

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, dkw said:

Some absolutely pathetic whataboutism in this thread.

It's weird, because the points are nonsense. If we go back to these serious incidents that are referred to, we will find people calling for serious action to be taken. 

Whether that's Zak Hardaker's slur, racism, domestic abuse, sexual assault etc. There are very consistent views. 

I'm not sure why people need to tie themselves in knots on this - if they don't mind players using these insults, just say that.

[dkw]

2 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Is that an actual word?.

It is now....

[ELBOWSEYE]

Just now, dkw said:

It is now....

What does it mean? 

[dkw]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

It's weird, because the points are nonsense. If we go back to these serious incidents that are referred to, we will find people calling for serious action to be taken. 

Whether that's Zak Hardaker's slur, racism, domestic abuse, sexual assault etc. There are very consistent views. 

I'm not sure why people need to tie themselves in knots on this - if they don't mind players using these insults, just say that.

Its all ridiculous, vast majority on here were more than happy to see Hardaker, Makinson etc get hit with big bans, there were outliers as there always are but it was pretty unanimous that these actions were reprehensible.

[dkw]

Just now, ELBOWSEYE said:

What does it mean? 

whataboutism

/ˌwɒtəˈbaʊtɪz(ə)m/

 

noun

BRITISH

 

1. the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counter-accusation or raising a different issue.

[ELBOWSEYE]

Just now, dkw said:

whataboutism

/ˌwɒtəˈbaʊtɪz(ə)m/

 

noun

BRITISH

 

1. the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counter-accusation or raising a different issue.

No wonder I failed English in 1977.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Desert Skipper said:

You called for Makinson to be sacked and sent packing from our game like you suggest for McGuire? Fair enough if you posted that. My claim wasn’t targeted at you individually but I applaud you for having consistency.

Re: My ‘made-up’ claim about betting most of the ‘outraged’ posters on here having Makinson as their RLWC wing choice despite their stance on such indiscretions… I’ll trawl though the World Cup threads later and have a look. Then we’ll know either way.

I've been consistent on my view that sexual assault on the field is a big issue and clusb and RFL (and potentially the authorities) should have taken far firmer action than they have. 

Your trawling threads makes no sense. People are calling for harsh punishments, that isn't inconsistent with thinking Makinson should play in RLWC in 2022.

And I suggest you re-read my original post on what I think should happen with Mcguire. Because saying things like 'sent packing from the game' just make you look silly. 

It's pretty easy to debate what people say, rather than make it up. 

[Dave T]

I would add to this, if Mcguire is guilty of this, it'll be really disappointing. I was at a fans forum a few weeks ago and he spoke well, I enjoyed his contributions, and I thought he had an excellent debut against Leigh. 

[Desert Skipper]

22 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Feel free to lump yourself in with Desert Skipper who called this virtue signalling and dismissed my view as being one for social media likes. 

That's your choice though, I didn't mention you. 

Actually Dave, my response to Elbow wasn’t targeting your post specifically, so don’t take it as a personal attack. It was highlighting the fact that a lot of posters are getting outraged and calling for 8 games or more (sacking?) for a mistake made in a heated argument. A mistake similar to one that anyone on here can make (and has been made in this thread incidentally!), despite them wanting to extol their apparent holiness on here. And that online self-righteousness is what I call Virtue Signalling. You may have a different definition, which is your take.

[Desert Skipper]

11 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I would add to this, if Mcguire is guilty of this, it'll be really disappointing. I was at a fans forum a few weeks ago and he spoke well, I enjoyed his contributions, and I thought he had an excellent debut against Leigh. 

You’re fortunate to have never been in a heated battle then Dave. Some people are human, even some posters on here when they get angry. 

Remember, he didn’t target this at someone disabled.

A few games and a fine and a public apology for me (if we’re comparing it to other offences).

And no, I’m not a Piers Morgan fan.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Desert Skipper

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Easy to make statements like yours but is there likely to be someone who feels excluded because of this. Will disabled groups in Warrington refuse to be coached by him (sorry to single this to Warrington and not include leigh). There are more people moving away from contact sports due to life changing effects so should sack every player who hits head high. 

Its not nice and people shouldn't have to put up with it. People shouldn't be using it in a professional setting representing something like a sporting club.

It really is as simple as that.

[ELBOWSEYE]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

Its not nice and people shouldn't have to put up with it. People shouldn't be using it in a professional setting representing something like a sporting club.

It really is as simple as that.

Has the leigh player complained about the term being used against him in the match, if yes you have a point, so I want to know were you draw the line in a sporting club because I suspect there are plenty of times things are said say at the Rhino's in training, in the changing room. And no mention on here about what leigh player said to warrent the same charge. 

[Tommygilf]

30 minutes ago, Desert Skipper said:

Remember, he didn’t target this at someone disabled.

If anything, this makes it worse.

Using out of date terms towards a person or group actually affected by them is something which can often just need education more than anything else.

Using a term against someone who isn't XYZ is like saying "Your actions/behaviour/appearance is so bad, I'm going to humiliate you to stop doing this by comparing you to [insert group and appropriate slur here]"

If a professional RL player can't control what he says on the pitch, how can he control his other actions?

[Desert Skipper]

4 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Its not nice and people shouldn't have to put up with it. People shouldn't be using it in a professional setting representing something like a sporting club.

It really is as simple as that.

I’m almost certain no one (well maybe one person) in this thread disagrees.

As far as I can tell it’s (mostly) about the grading of the offence and the context. Some posters want to interpret it as being as bad as other Grade F offences or as bad as targeted abuse. Some of us see it differently and would like to take a pragmatic approach.

This is all the fun of debating on the internet.

But just to make clear, none of us are condoning the use of the word, irrespective of whether it’s a sporting club or in your own home.

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Has the leigh player complained about the term being used against him in the match, if yes you have a point, so I want to know were you draw the line in a sporting club because I suspect there are plenty of times things are said say at the Rhino's in training, in the changing room. And no mention on here about what leigh player said to warrent the same charge. 

That isn't how hate speech works, I could go through the legislation but suffice to say, the Leigh player doesn't have to complain.

Your broader point is a bit like "if a tree falls in a wood and nobody hears it does it make a sound". 2 points in refute of that sentiment:

1. any player or staff member, directly involved or not, is able to raise concerns within their own clubs or external authorities within the sport and in society (ie the Police) if they think something untoward is being said or otherwise - just like any private workplace.

2. A professional sports match is inherently not private workplace, nor is representing a sports club in a public forum (which includes what a match is).

[Desert Skipper]

13 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

If a professional RL player can't control what he says on the pitch, how can he control his other actions

You know what, it’s actually much more difficult than you think. It’s wired into the Limbic responses in our brain. It’s a hangover from our caveman days when all we had to do was fight to eat and live and reproduce. 

Now, as modern humans we have a highly-developed pre-frontal cortex (well I say we, maybe mine isn’t so much  ) that enables us to apply intelligent thought before we act on something. The problem is that the Limbic response is a survival tool that is way stronger and faster than the ‘thinking’ bit. So when you’re fighting after 80 minutes of hard slog and the adrenaline is pumping you are at risk of the caveman bit taking over.

Of course, with enough training and practice you can teach the brain to counter the Limbic response, but you won’t get it 100% perfect ever. If you could, you wouldn’t lose your temper, ever. And I know you have, just as I have, and regretted those actions (in the car for example?).

If this was a planned and genuine attempt to hurt the feelings of a disabled person that’s a whole different matter.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Desert Skipper

[Tommygilf]

5 minutes ago, Desert Skipper said:

I’m almost certain no one (well maybe one person) in this thread disagrees.

As far as I can tell it’s (mostly) about the grading of the offence and the context. Some posters want to interpret it as being as bad as other Grade F offences or as bad as targeted abuse. Some of us see it differently and would like to take a pragmatic approach.

This is all the fun of debating on the internet.

But just to make clear, none of us are condoning the use of the word, irrespective of whether it’s a sporting club or in your own home.

Fair point and I don't want you to think I'm saying you condone it.

From a pragmatic approach, any slur that is unacceptable in a normal workplace being treated the same is fine for me. Differentiating leads to chaos and potential victim ranking. If a term is publicly unacceptable, then it should be dealt with the same as any other unacceptable term.