AFL

[unapologetic pedant]

5 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I do not watch soccer (much), correct. I reckon a suspect forward pass in RL is far more prevalent than a potential handball in soccer. In fact I know it is because there are many every match of RL, vs only one or two per average (at best) in soccer.

A better example from Soccer is that throw-ins are often not taken from the exact point the ball crossed the side-line. Likewise free kicks from the spot a foul was committed. Because the imprecision doesn't matter. Only if the player steals several metres will the ref make him take it again.

[Sports Prophet]

3 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Such tiny margins have no effect on the play. The only troublesome outcomes are if a legal pass is called forward or a palpably forward pass is missed. Both of which seldom happen. Everything else is fine.

You appear quite relaxed about the management of inevitable uncertainty in AFL -

But borderline passes in NRL games are a source of unbearable vexation.

I would say there are at minimum 5 clearly forward passes per match which, for whatever reason, are not called by the officials… and we are not talking a single millimetre or just a few.

I am equally relaxed in most cases of officials in RL disagreeing with my opinion on subjective decisions like a forward pass as I am with AFL officials making subjective decisions I disagree with.

I don’t think I have displayed any examples of “unbearable vexation” and you seem to be presenting me as someone who is unfairly critical of RL whilst being blindly loyal to AFL.

[Sports Prophet]

9 hours ago, HawkMan said:

As you say you don't watch much soccer. Take it from me, handball controversies are the dominant topic in soccer at most pro levels. With scoring at a premium in soccer games are being decided with the awarding of penalty kicks for ridiculous handball offences. Was it hand to ball or ball to hand? Accidental or deliberate ? In an unnatural position or not ? 

Australia's own Ange Postegoclu getting worked up about it.

 

I watch enough and have my finger on the pulse. About as common as a forward pass in a try or a set leading up to a try I reckon.

[HawkMan]

I asked this on the Australian RL forum but haven't got an answer so I'll ask it here. Why are 2pts awarded for a bye in the NRL ? 

Don't all teams get the same amount of byes and play the same number of games? So those points are not really needed.

Edited July 5, 2024 by HawkMan

[unapologetic pedant]

10 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I am equally relaxed in most cases of officials in RL disagreeing with my opinion on subjective decisions like a forward pass as I am with AFL officials making subjective decisions I disagree with.

These are not "subjective decisions". NRL refs are rationally applying the rules. Every pass is innocent till proven guilty. Similar "benefit of the doubt" officiating logic is observed in other sports, including AFL.

 

10 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I would say there are at minimum 5 clearly forward passes per match which, for whatever reason, are not called by the officials… and we are not talking a single millimetre or just a few.

The only notable "clearly forward" out of the hands pass I can recall in recent times was Reece Walsh in last year's semi v Warriors. Even in that case, had the pass travelled backward out of the hands, it would have had little effect on the ability to defend the play.

 

10 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I don’t think I have displayed any examples of “unbearable vexation” and you seem to be presenting me as someone who is unfairly critical of RL whilst being blindly loyal to AFL.

Think again.

On 01/07/2024 at 16:32, Sports Prophet said:

I certainly find myself frustrated more often with a referees decision (or lack thereof) in a single RL match than I will with the decisions of the umpires in a single game of AFL.

On 11/05/2024 at 18:36, Sports Prophet said:

NRL officiating is in a poor state it hasn’t been in for a long time.

[unapologetic pedant]

On 02/07/2024 at 00:41, The Rocket said:

For someone who can`t stand the game you seem to watch an awful lot of it.

I can take about 20 seconds and am reminded that it hasn`t improved.

Response to puzzled emoji -

Few years back, on the locked Fumbleball thread in the Australian section, you seemed suspiciously well-informed about AFL. For instance, meticulously detailed disdain for a grub called Toby Greene. I'd never heard of him.

Also a few years back, you took umbrage over a depiction of Anglo-Australians as "descendants of rat-faced cockney oiks" (not my line BTW, stole it from some acerbic banter between Pommie and Aussie comedians). This Greene bloke fits the bill. Got a face his own mother would struggle to like.

[Sports Prophet]

14 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Think again.

I don’t need to think again. Neither of those posts demonstrate “unbearable vexation”

14 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

These are not "subjective decisions". NRL refs are rationally applying the rules. Every pass is innocent till proven guilty. Similar "benefit of the doubt" officiating logic is observed in other sports, including AFL.

 

The only notable "clearly forward" out of the hands pass I can recall in recent times was Reece Walsh in last year's semi v Warriors. Even in that case, had the pass travelled backward out of the hands, it would have had little effect on the ability to defend the play.

They are subjective on the basis the individuals applying the laws (referee and TJ’s) are in unique positions on the playing field to make their decisions. Not that it matters to me whether decisions should be defined as subjective or not, we are simply moving the discussion somewhere that doesn’t interest me and has no influence on my enjoyment of a sports match.

In my opinion there are unchecked forward passes in almost every match I watch.

[Sports Prophet]

17 hours ago, HawkMan said:

I asked this on the Australian RL forum but haven't got an answer so I'll ask it here. Why are 2pts awarded for a bye in the NRL ? 

Don't all teams get the same amount of byes and play the same number of games? So those points are not really needed.

Yeah, it’s unnecessary and complicates the ladder.

[Sports Prophet]

Massive win for the Bombers yesterday in front of 82k Friday night crowd. 

38,464 is the YTD crowd average for the AFL. Three clubs averaging > 50k and another four averaging > 40k. I expect the season average will grow above 40k before the finals.

[unapologetic pedant]

10 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I don’t need to think again. Neither of those posts demonstrate “unbearable vexation”

Interpreting figurative language literally. Dear oh dear. 

10 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

They are subjective on the basis the individuals applying the laws (referee and TJ’s) are in unique positions on the playing field to make their decisions. Not that it matters to me whether decisions should be defined as subjective or not, we are simply moving the discussion somewhere that doesn’t interest me and has no influence on my enjoyment of a sports match.

In my opinion there are unchecked forward passes in almost every match I watch.

You started this shemozzle several pages back with a gratuitous rant about NRL officiating. As retaliation to queries about AFL rules.

I've had a lifetime and a gutful of halfwits shouting "Forward" at RL games. The inanity is all the more tiresome when it comes from an AFL enthusiast who has no trouble accepting that the needs of a sport as spectacle should be paramount in the application of its rules.

[unapologetic pedant]

6 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Massive win for the Bombers yesterday in front of 82k Friday night crowd. 

GWS beat Carlton. North beat GCS.

Results like these are either a sign that the cap and draft even the comp out. Or that AFL is innately and habitually governed by random elements. 

[Sports Prophet]

35 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I've had a lifetime and a gutful of halfwits shouting "Forward" at RL games. The inanity is all the more tiresome when it comes from an AFL enthusiast who has no trouble accepting that the needs of a sport as spectacle should be paramount in the application of its rules.

At this point in time, I would define myself as a bigger NRL enthusiast than an AFL enthusiast, although the Bombers performances this year are bringing AFL back towards the same level.

Objectively, I watch more RL because a game of AFL goes for so bloody long. When I was younger, I could get into a full game a lot more, but with other commitments these days, it’s harder for me to get the time to watch a full game with other demands getting in the way.

There’s a group of about 25 Dads on a WhatsApp chat I organised, from varying friend groups, none footy related. I put an invite out to come down to a pub for Friday arvo beers at the sports bar where I would be watching the Sharks. Usually on a Friday arvo I’m at home with the family or out on a work lunch which has rolled over an extra hour or two. Four others came down and the pub was pretty empty for the game (no surprises given the location) but what I was stunned by was how full the place was by the time the Bombers and Pies started. The place was chockers, all seats taken, standing room only. Mixed clientele, a table of six hot 20 something sheila’s, plenty of families with children aged under 10 and of course mixed groups of guys and girls all there watching the footy. There would have been 700 there watching on the big screen. I was stunned, Bombers and Pies scarves and shirts everywhere (I’m not in Melbourne or Victoria). I didn’t get to finish the game at the pub but I wish I did. One of my mates came back to mine to finish it. Great match.

Now I have never seen anything close to that in a Sydney pub for a regular season NRL game. 

[gingerjon]

Geelong beat Hawthorn.

I'll say that again because it's my favourite line. (To borrow from Max Boyce).

Geelong beat Hawthorn.

[unapologetic pedant]

3 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

At this point in time, I would define myself as a bigger NRL enthusiast than an AFL enthusiast, although the Bombers performances this year are bringing AFL back towards the same level.

The designation of "AFL enthusiast" is a simple statement of fact. It neither connotes an absolute nor relative level of NRL enthusiasm.

3 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

because a game of AFL goes for so bloody long.

That could be the main obstacle to my becoming an AFL enthusiast. Still to survive a quarter, never mind a whole game. These highlights packages don't cut the mustard.

3 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

There would have been 700 there watching on the big screen. I was stunned, Bombers and Pies scarves and shirts everywhere (I’m not in Melbourne or Victoria). 

Exciting times on Nauru.

[Sports Prophet]

5 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Geelong beat Hawthorn.

I'll say that again because it's my favourite line. (To borrow from Max Boyce).

Geelong beat Hawthorn.

Where in Wales are you from GJ?

[Sports Prophet]

9 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

The designation of "AFL enthusiast" is a simple statement of fact. It neither connotes an absolute nor relative level of NRL enthusiasm.

Would it be the same if you knew of my enthusiasm for NHL and motor racing? What about my lack of enthusiasm for Soccer?

I am as enthusiastic about the NRL as any person on this forum. What is it about my enthusiasm for AFL that you found it important to highlight in your comment? What were you inferring by highlighting my obvious enthusiasm for AFL?

[unapologetic pedant]

8 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Would it be the same if you knew of my enthusiasm for NHL and motor racing? 

Yes. Putative RL supporters obsessing about phantom forward passes is inherently and perennially irritating.

8 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

What is it about my enthusiasm for AFL that you found it important to highlight in your comment? 

This contrast -

Relaxed acceptance of unavoidable ambiguity in AFL. Ignorant intolerance of unavoidable ambiguity in NRL.

[unapologetic pedant]

22 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I was stunned, 

That's good news. More humane that way. I would have asked for a general anaesthetic.

[unapologetic pedant]

Expect GWS must be disappointed with the sub-12k crowd against Carlton.

Especially during the "kids go free" period.

Have to think the club would be more popular based in ACT.

[Sports Prophet]

20 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Expect GWS must be disappointed with the sub-12k crowd against Carlton.

Especially during the "kids go free" period.

Have to think the club would be more popular based in ACT.

Pretty good initiative the kids go free thing I reckon.

I think the club already is more popular in Canberra and Western Sydney. It will take a long time for GWS to average 20k in Sydney. I anticipate they will do it before some Sydney RL clubs do though.

[The Future is League]

5 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Expect GWS must be disappointed with the sub-12k crowd against Carlton.

Especially during the "kids go free" period.

Have to think the club would be more popular based in ACT.

GWS give out shed loads of free tickets to home games, and and now this with kids show's how desperate they are for people to watch them at their home ground

[The Future is League]

5 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Pretty good initiative the kids go free thing I reckon.

I think the club already is more popular in Canberra and Western Sydney. It will take a long time for GWS to average 20k in Sydney. I anticipate they will do it before some Sydney RL clubs do though.

Do you mean that GWS are more popular in Canberra Than Western Sydney?

There gates are certainly lower in Canberra than the Raiders, despite giving out bucket loads of freebies, but possibly more than the Brumbies.

[unapologetic pedant]

37 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

Do you mean that GWS are more popular in Canberra Than Western Sydney?

There gates are certainly lower in Canberra than the Raiders, despite giving out bucket loads of freebies, but possibly more than the Brumbies.

Comment yesterday on the BigFumble crowd thread - 

"I remember several years ago for a GWS game in Canberra the initial reported attendance was lower than it looked. The club asked for a review and it came out a couple of thousand more than was first reported"

NRL clubs should try this trick. Some fans thought Tigers v Storm at Leichhardt looked a lot more than 10k. Ask for a steward's inquiry - abracadabra!, 15k official attendance.

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Comment yesterday on the BigFumble crowd thread - 

"I remember several years ago for a GWS game in Canberra the initial reported attendance was lower than it looked. The club asked for a review and it came out a couple of thousand more than was first reported"

NRL clubs should try this trick. Some fans thought Tigers v Storm at Leichhardt looked a lot more than 10k. Ask for a steward's inquiry - abracadabra!, 15k official attendance.

Sounds like BS to me.

[Sports Prophet]

3 hours ago, The Future is League said:

Do you mean that GWS are more popular in Canberra Than Western Sydney?

There gates are certainly lower in Canberra than the Raiders, despite giving out bucket loads of freebies, but possibly more than the Brumbies.

Yes I did. 

Bruce Stadium avg YTD is 14,359 vs 12,764 at Manuka and any local grassroots player aged junior aged U/15, any coach, trainer, referee and volunteer in NSWRL can get a free ticket every round of any match they want all season. So the NRL will give away “bucket loads” of free tickets too.

Turns out GWS crowds are bigger in Sydney than Canberra.