Sat 2nd Sept: SL: Warrington Wolves v Castleford Tigers KO 15:00

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

They still have a soft underbelly. When the going gets tough, they go missing

I'm not sure thats a fair representation of what our problem has been this year. We haven't just been soft, we've been shambolic, it's bigger than having a soft underbelly. Nobody accused them of that in the first couple of months of the season, or when we beat Catalans twice when the games were very tough. Or even the two close games against Wigan that we lost, they were nowt to do with underbelly. 

I think it's a little bit basic analysis tbh. Looking soft is the outcome rather than the root cause imho. 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Dave T

[DoubleD]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

I'm not sure thats a fair representation of what our problem has been this year. We haven't just been soft, we've been shambolic, it's bigger than having a soft underbelly. Nobody accused them of that in the first couple of months of the season, or when we beat Catalans twice when the games were very tough. Or even the two close games against Wigan that we lost, they were nowt to do with underbelly. 

I think it's a little bit basic analysis tbh. Looking soft is the outcome rather than the root cause imho. 

Ok, fair points. It was perhaps a rather simplistic summary. They appear disjointed and to lack strong leadership and I don’t see them as a threat if they make the play offs 

[Dave T]

Just now, DoubleD said:

Ok, fair points. It was perhaps a rather simplistic summary. They appear disjointed and to lack strong leadership and I don’t see them as a threat if they make the play offs 

I can't disagree with that. 

My personal view is that even if we time it so we are at our best come playoff time, we have too many weaknesses in the team - our centres are not championship winning, and a couple of our forwards are still too hit and miss. I do still have reservations about Danny Walker too, particularly some of his defensive reads. 

It was interesting hearing Dufty say what they had changed, it was all about getting the ball in the hands of the pace menbof the back of the big players. It really looked like Matautia was off the park, which was a stark contrast to Powell who wanted everything through him. Seems smart from Chambers. 

A positive result for me would be finishing the season with some good performances and a couple of wins that give us hope for 2024 with new management. 

[DoubleD]

25 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I can't disagree with that. 

My personal view is that even if we time it so we are at our best come playoff time, we have too many weaknesses in the team - our centres are not championship winning, and a couple of our forwards are still too hit and miss. I do still have reservations about Danny Walker too, particularly some of his defensive reads. 

It was interesting hearing Dufty say what they had changed, it was all about getting the ball in the hands of the pace menbof the back of the big players. It really looked like Matautia was off the park, which was a stark contrast to Powell who wanted everything through him. Seems smart from Chambers. 

A positive result for me would be finishing the season with some good performances and a couple of wins that give us hope for 2024 with new management. 

Yes some of your players have had notable drop off in performances this year. Matautia looks a shadow of his former self. Kasiano has become more of a liability than a threat at times, similarly with Dudson. I agree that you have too many weaknesses, particularly defensively. 

Interesting what you say on Walker though, as I rate him as the best hooker in SL but perhaps I’m overlooking some fallibilities in his game

[Dave T]

8 hours ago, DoubleD said:

Yes some of your players have had notable drop off in performances this year. Matautia looks a shadow of his former self. Kasiano has become more of a liability than a threat at times, similarly with Dudson. I agree that you have too many weaknesses, particularly defensively. 

Interesting what you say on Walker though, as I rate him as the best hooker in SL but perhaps I’m overlooking some fallibilities in his game

Walker is very good and I do rate him - possibly being overly harsh, but quite often when the opposition scores a try it isn't unusual to see a defensive error from him in the lead up. 

A little bit of tightening up of his game and I'd agree with your assessment, but I still think Clarke is far better than him at the moment tbh. 

[Dave T]

8 hours ago, DoubleD said:

Yes some of your players have had notable drop off in performances this year. Matautia looks a shadow of his former self. Kasiano has become more of a liability than a threat at times, similarly with Dudson. I agree that you have too many weaknesses, particularly defensively. 

Interesting what you say on Walker though, as I rate him as the best hooker in SL but perhaps I’m overlooking some fallibilities in his game

Kasiano is a funny one, he's a luxury player imo, he set up a couple of tries today and was a real threat, but similarly he can be reckless and a liability. A pack where he is the cherry on top is fine, one where he is expected to be a main forward is always gonna struggle. 

Mikaele returning has been very good for the balance of our pack. 

[Moe syszlak]

What's changed at wire? Simple really, Dudson was FINALLY dropped for the last 2 games. Its not a coincidence.

[Harry Stottle]

14 hours ago, gingerjon said:

I'm told that everyone tries for every second in leagues where there is relegation.

Turns out, that's a load of old nonsense.

But if there is no relegation you will find many more games so inconsequential by the result that many will not be trying at all.

Whether that turns out to be a load of old nonsense only time will tell. 

[Harry Stottle]

12 hours ago, DoubleD said:

They’re really giving Wakefield hope. On the last couple of performances of Trinity though, they look well off it and I’m not sure where they might get a win from 

Wakey now 10 points to the good over Cas on the +/- points, and 4 games to go 3 at home one away starting with Saints (home) today, Catalan and HKR (home) and Leigh away, all of those teams need to win their games for top 6 positioning so I can't see any leniency or resting players towards Wakey, Cas with Hull home and Wigan and Leeds away, which to me if they manage to keep the scores against low should be good enough even if they fail to win one of those, I can't see Wakey getting 2 wins or even a win and a draw and healthy points for from their fixtures.

I have Cas safe at this moment in time.

[ELBOWSEYE]

1 hour ago, Moe syszlak said:

What's changed at wire? Simple really, Dudson was FINALLY dropped for the last 2 games. Its not a coincidence.

You know I had actually forgot about Dudson. That's the impression he leaves or fails to leave.

[Ullman]

12 hours ago, DoubleD said:

Because he’s rocks and diamonds. And when he’s rocks he’s absolutely dreadful and looks like he doesn’t care/try.

He’s a good player when he’s on but he’s far too inconsistent 

I definitely see the rocks and diamonds thing, there was a classic example last week, but from what I've seen the positives outweigh the negatives and he has the ability to break a game open. The thing I find strange is that people almost seem to fall over themselves trying to put the boot into him. It's like some weird obsession.

[Dave T]

11 minutes ago, Ullman said:

I definitely see the rocks and diamonds thing, there was a classic example last week, but from what I've seen the positives outweigh the negatives and he has the ability to break a game open. The thing I find strange is that people almost seem to fall over themselves trying to put the boot into him. It's like some weird obsession.

Couldn't agree more. Some players just attract this level of scrutiny, but imo he has been largely very good for us. Sure he's had some bad showings when we've been poor, but he has to join the queue there. 

I do think it's a good example of the media and pundits influencing people, which is interesting linking it back to the Marcus Griffiths issues this week. 

[Ullman]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Couldn't agree more. Some players just attract this level of scrutiny, but imo he has been largely very good for us. Sure he's had some bad showings when we've been poor, but he has to join the queue there. 

I do think it's a good example of the media and pundits influencing people, which is interesting linking it back to the Marcus Griffiths issues this week. 

I think you've got something there.

[Just Browny]

Phil Clarke in particular hates Dufty; it is well beyond not rating him. It's honestly hard to imagine what he can have done to Clarke to attract the vitriol.