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Rugby League World Issue 400 - Out Now!

RUGBY LEAGUE WORLD MAGAZINE - ISSUE 400 - OUT NOW!
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#21 1976PMJwires

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 10:40 AM

QUOTE (Exiled Wiganer @ Sep 25 2010, 11:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am not sure you take my point - he is the best 9 I have ever seen and a Saints great - I was posing the question as to where he stands in the scheme of things as a great of the game. Does that require greater achievements on the international stage? While his character is blameless, by universal opinion, is it reasonable to ask to what extent does what ends up in your body assist you as a player?
If that strikes you as harsh and unfair then that was not my intention. This was after all a thread about his place in the scheme of things.
To pose the question another way - which is the bigger British great - Morley or KC*?



Great question EW

Morley must be the GREAT won everything in the club game (maybe not the WCC) in the ESL and NRL

KC is 100% still a Legend of RL

#22 Simon Templar

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 11:19 AM

QUOTE (Exiled Wiganer @ Sep 25 2010, 11:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am not sure you take my point - he is the best 9 I have ever seen and a Saints great - I was posing the question as to where he stands in the scheme of things as a great of the game. Does that require greater achievements on the international stage? While his character is blameless, by universal opinion, is it reasonable to ask to what extent does what ends up in your body assist you as a player?
If that strikes you as harsh and unfair then that was not my intention. This was after all a thread about his place in the scheme of things.
To pose the question another way - which is the bigger British great - Morley or KC*?


I struggle to take most of your posts seriously. To me your becoming more like an "Exiled Wendaller".

The only blemish on KC's character was the drugs issue several years ago. Now correct me if I'm wrong but dont RL players have to avail themselves for testing after every game. If KC is still benefitting from some drug enhancing substance that he was given years ago then it must have been pretty strong stuff, whilst still invisible to modern test methods. Sean Long who also "benefitted" from the same substance (As he admitted in his book) doesnt seem to benefit in the same way KC "does".

Andy Farrell a great international player !! laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

#23 shrek

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 11:36 AM

I'll be glad to see the bloody back of him, which is about as big a compliment a Wigan lad can give him.

I have a sneeky suspicion he may do a Radlinksi and reappear in the future, just enough times to creep over the 500 game milestone, which if memory serves he'll be 4 short of after the Grand Final.

A credit to the game in his long and glittering career todate, shame it never quite happened on the international stage, but hope we manage to retain his services within the sport for some time to come.

#24 bewareshadows

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 12:36 PM

QUOTE (Exiled Wiganer @ Sep 25 2010, 11:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
After watching week after week the deification of KC* by Sky (and indeed seeing League Express's views on his importance - how can a little thing like being the best team over 7 months compare with scoring a try in a game your team had already won in the 3rd from final game at a ground), I wonder whether he is a British great as opposed to a Saints great.
He is the finest 9 I have seen and a one man victory machine for his club. A couple of things give me pause for thought about his place in the history of the game...
Does his international career match his ability? My recollection is that he had a couple of brilliant games for Wales and one good series for GB, which puts his career somewhere between Gilmour's and Briers, and a million miles behind Schofield and even Farrell (who dirched his club and country).
Second, as I understand it he was given performance enhancing drugs without his knowledge. While clearly he is blameless, don't those things have a long lasting (see Dwain Chambers) and substantial benefit? Without attaching any blame to him, why is this subject never touched on (and why do hookers seem to have a propensity for these things?)?
If his career is compared to Morley or a true great like Hanley, then he falls a long way short to my mind, in that these were players who conquered the Aussies in their own back yard and had long and glorious international careers. Certainly, KC* deserves huge accolades, but I trust Morley will get this and far more when he hangs his boots up.
A Local Hero but not a British great?




So I take it that you also believe the same of Tiger Woods. They greatest golfer to grace the planet in most professionals minds. However if we use your measure of a man, has played poorly in USA teams in every rider cup. So just an good golf from the USA, not the best ever.

You mention Cunningham's International career, but it's quite well known that for the last 5 years, he has been retired from international Rugby. And prior to that he always seamed to be injured for the international season. During that time Terry Newton played hooker for GB more than Cunningham did, however during the actual domestic season Newton would be 2nd or even 3rd behind the likes of Jimmy Lowes. However Jimmy lowes face just did not fit with the GB coaching set up.

I don't recall Farrell or Hanley or Scofield or sculthorpe actually winning anything internationally. The GB side has been on a 40 year losing streak, but just because the GB side is poor does not mean all of the above can be discounted as legends. If it's the attention from SKY that you're decrying, well that's fair enough, Sculthorpe did not get this, but his career was cut unexpectedly short. Farrell did not retire but moved on and was also out with injury for his last year (but we still got to see his bashed up nose on reruns). Sky where not into the hype as much at the time of hanley and Scofield was gone long before that.

The same could have been said for cunningham if he had actually had a broken jaw from the crusaders game. If his career ended short in that game there would have been none of the adulation that he has been given.

I would not expect the same for Morley, but I'm sure when briers calls it a day he too will be given the credit he deserves he also has carried the warrington team for the last 10 years until the rest of the stars came when the money arrived.

Briers is another who face did not fit with the GB coaching team set up, but that does not deny the quality of the man just because he's not the insitutions cover boy.



Super League the only place in the world where people still believe that less competitors and a closed market to new competition will improve the quality of the product.

Even the Chinese and the Cubans gave up on these marxist principles years ago.


SL with a reduced number of competitors and a closed market = North Korea.

#25 Exiled Wiganer

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 01:47 PM

I think KC is the finest 9 I have ever seen - indeed, I started a thread praising him when it looked like injury may prevent him from playing again a few weeks ago.
I suppose I am simply suggesting that in measuring a player's achievements the international (and Aussie domestic) side is worth weighing up.
It will be interesting to see whether Briers and Morley get the same accolade. As a game, we have been poor at giving our players the send off they deserve, and if it becomes a trend to highlight the achievements of our greats as they step down then I think that would be a wonderful. I cannot remember Hanley getting much fuss when he retired and he was a man picked in the Team of the Century for 4 different clubs, as well as performing brilliantly for GB. The finest player I have ever seen that's for sure.
If one team loyalty is a defining feature then someone like Alker, another hooker, deserves massive credit. Insofar as positive coverage of an RL player extends beyond the game, that is a very good thing.

I don't follow the Tiger Woods analogy as he clearly competes as an individual against all the other world greats most weeks. I suppose if he won everything else, but skipped the Majors that might be similar?




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