Ref for Sunday

[The Lad]

59 minutes ago, Dewsbury Dog said:

What I didn't like the most was that when Middlehurst got sent off he didn't walk off the field straight away, he had to go back and cause more trouble resulting in Crookes being sent off after he scored. Don't need ugly scenes like this creeping into the game or it'll end up like football where players have no respect for the officials. Worst thing I've seen in 35 years of watching the sport. Wouldn't say you gave us much of a game. Oh and your last try was from a forward pass.

No he didn't Jono Smith went off the pitch and didn't return. If its the worst thing you have seen in 35 years then you have been watching tag rugby, really worst in 35 years, exaggeration much?

[DOGFATHER]

On 13/08/2017 at 8:32 PM, The Lad said:

As a hornet supporter I must say the game was very competitive at the start, both teams used the ball well (except when they dropped it) and threatened at the line. However the game quickly became a arm wrestle and one that I feel Batley wanted more than us.

As far as the "unsporting" ways the fans where, I can only see Batley fans being unsporting cheering and jeering at players who where down and did not return to play an active role, I find that to be very disrespectful.

As far as the ball boy is concerned, while I concede that his behaviour was not right it was in a sense warranted, as the boy who looked about 15 was taking abuse from 5 or 6 men who where between the ages of 40-50, they heckled him and made very disrespectful gestures well before he did. 

Lastly, I find it strange that you wish us a team that has run you close on three occasions relegation and Oldham who although have had some blow outs run you to a 22-22 half time score line relegation also, while hornets and Oldham do not play the prettiest rugby they do have something in common a never say die spirit and maybe that's what Batley supporters dont like the most, the fact that we gave you a game and didn't role over like a good bulldog would. 

Don't get me wrong, close games are usually the best ones to watch.

Surely, you realise your players are not really injured when they are going down every time you have to defend? Even you must see they are just wasting time and slowing the game down, to break up any sort of momentum the game has, to give themselves time to rest and get set in defense? Once that tactic doesn't work, you turn it in to a fight.

I honestly fear for the game, we are all struggling to attract new supporters to the game, from SL down and your consistent spoiling tactics are only making the job harder for everyone concerned.

The RFL and officials need to sort this out, you are turning the game I love, in to a very poor man's American Football. There is time to grab a hotdog and run a commercial break every time you have to defend.

What you seem to forget is, this is an entertainment business, like going to the cinema or to a concert. Do you honestly think your tactics are good for game? 

I'll put it another way, if you were a new fan and that was the first game you had seen, would you ever go back? I'm sure I wouldn't.

The environment was hostile, there was a threat of crowd trouble, a club official was ejected from the ground and the game was appalling to watch in terms of entertainment.

We won and yet midway through the second half, I could have quite easily gone home without knowing the result, I was so bored and irritated at watching grown men pretending to be hurt, that I couldn't care less if we'd won or lost.

 

If I feel like that as one of the die-hards, how would a new supporter feel?

[Dewsbury Dog]

Totally agree with your post above Dogfather. 

31 minutes ago, The Lad said:

No he didn't Jono Smith went off the pitch and didn't return. If its the worst thing you have seen in 35 years then you have been watching tag rugby, really worst in 35 years, exaggeration much?

Wan't talking about Jono Smith...I saw him go down with his head injury which was a shame as I rated him when he was at Crusaders and thought he was your best player. I also clapped him off like I do anyone else who goes off injured because they are brave lads who deserve our respect for taking to the field in the first place. The worst thing I've seen in 35 years I was talking about was the lad who got a red card, but didn't go off the pitch straight away. No exaggeration at all, thought he was a disgrace to Rugby League. 

[Cheshire Exile]

What about the verbals from Crookes which provoked Middlehurst to confront him before the pair of them left the pitch? Conveniently ignored this issue have you? Takes two to tango as they say.

[Bulldog Days]

20 minutes ago, Cheshire Exile said:

What about the verbals from Crookes which provoked Middlehurst to confront him before the pair of them left the pitch? Conveniently ignored this issue have you? Takes two to tango as they say.

So why do the majority of your games continue to end in controversy? Can't you see or admit that you create your own problems with the way you are coached/play the game of Rugby League?

[RPH]

6 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Its called sophistication.

L O L

[ernieone]

Not the best away day this season.

A friend brought there 5 years old daughter who had a Batley season ticket which allows a junior into any championship ground this season, they went to the office to verify it only to be told that they do not accept it at Rochdale so they had to pay £5 for a ticket.

The RL should make it policy that all Juniors (say up to 12 years old) should be admitted free 

[The Lad]

14 hours ago, DOGFATHER said:

Don't get me wrong, close games are usually the best ones to watch.

Surely, you realise your players are not really injured when they are going down every time you have to defend? Even you must see they are just wasting time and slowing the game down, to break up any sort of momentum the game has, to give themselves time to rest and get set in defense? Once that tactic doesn't work, you turn it in to a fight.

I honestly fear for the game, we are all struggling to attract new supporters to the game, from SL down and your consistent spoiling tactics are only making the job harder for everyone concerned.

The RFL and officials need to sort this out, you are turning the game I love, in to a very poor man's American Football. There is time to grab a hotdog and run a commercial break every time you have to defend.

What you seem to forget is, this is an entertainment business, like going to the cinema or to a concert. Do you honestly think your tactics are good for game? 

I'll put it another way, if you were a new fan and that was the first game you had seen, would you ever go back? I'm sure I wouldn't.

The environment was hostile, there was a threat of crowd trouble, a club official was ejected from the ground and the game was appalling to watch in terms of entertainment.

We won and yet midway through the second half, I could have quite easily gone home without knowing the result, I was so bored and irritated at watching grown men pretending to be hurt, that I couldn't care less if we'd won or lost.

 

If I feel like that as one of the die-hards, how would a new supporter feel?

I understand there are tactics involved in rugby, didn't you?. And it was the Batley players who struck first.

I get what you are saying about making the game attractive and eye catching but they can't all be winners there are going to be slow games, and as far as "Do you honestly think your tactics are good for game?" the most the game was stopped was for the two times Jono smith was injured the second one resulting in him not coming back into the game so it is hard to argue it was faked.

 And I do believe that people would have com back there where some good tries, a back and forth game and some fights, that's what the majority of people what in a rugby game. Not saying people on here want it but the general public if asked probably do.

It was hostile because of the away fans I don't know where you where sat but I was right in the middle of the trouble (insert accusations I cause it here), and we where taunted  and there was a comment about us not the game but the fans every couple of minutes what do you think would happen if we did that at Jaffa Cake stadium?. The ball by was wrong to have a go at players but when a 15 year old is being told he's a this and that by 40 year olds who have children around them what do you think he's going to do?.

[Blind side johnny]

13 hours ago, ernieone said:

Not the best away day this season.

A friend brought there 5 years old daughter who had a Batley season ticket which allows a junior into any championship ground this season, they went to the office to verify it only to be told that they do not accept it at Rochdale so they had to pay £5 for a ticket.

The RL should make it policy that all Juniors (say up to 12 years old) should be admitted free 

That is very disappointing - I thought that it was policy at all Championship clubs to provide admission to those holding junior season tickets.

[DOGFATHER]

The biggest flaw in your argument regarding fans returning to see the great tries and fighting is the attendance figure. It was published at less than 500 yesterday, that suggests people are not being enticed back, most people feel like I do, bored, irritated and feeling robbed that you have actually paid to feel like that, when there are so many other things to do.

You have conveniently side stepped my question though, do you think your tactics are good for the game? I assume you do not, hence the necessity to avoid answering it.

I'm not the first supporter who has come away from Rochdale with these views. Look on almost every forum after your games. They all tell the same story, a dour unentertaining experience, win, lose or draw, supporters couldn't care less after watching a procession of your players feigning injury. Rugby League has always prided itself on the fact, that players were tough and only went down if they were seriously injured. We all used to look at the softies who played football with derision, as they rolled around faking injury to con the officials and we thanked our lucky stars it wasn't in our game.

Sadly, Rochdale, Swinton and Oldham have introduced it, ruining the spectacle of the game, and then you have the sheer audacity to call other fans unsporting, for failing to realise when an injury is genuine or not! 

If you think that is what people want to see, good luck surviving on gates of under 400.

We can't all be winners, true, but you are not winning with your current tactics. So what exactly would you lose by chancing your arm at playing the game without all of the poor gamesmanship? You are getting beaten in spite of the negative tactics, if nothing else, at least people might feel they have been entertained for there money and would be inclined to visit you again.

You have a decent side with some excellent skill levels, but the positives are far outweighed by the negatives. 

From reading your forum, it is obvious that some of your fans are convinced all of the other teams are "bad winners" or "bad losers". Yet when you lose, it is invariably the refs fault, or it is the other teams that have started the fighting? Come on, every week? 

You cant be so deluded, that you honestly believe it is the whole of the rest of the division who is wrong?

Crookes was fouled after he had scored with a cowardly cheap shot, it should have been an 8 point try. What was he supposed to do? 

It is no exaggeration, the gamesmanship you employ, takes any pleasure from either winning or losing and has me seriously considering whether or not to ever make the trip again. I go to almost every game home or away, I am a hardcore fan, one of the converted that knows how good the game can be. If I feel like that, I'd bet there are at least 10 fans from every other club for every one of the converted that feels like I do, who definitely won't visit you again. Can you afford to throw that money away? Can the game afford to lose that number of people?

Yesterday was not an isolated game, I have had the misfortune of seeing you 3 times this season, all 3 have followed the same pattern. You slow the game to a crawl to kill any sort of excitement or attacking flair, once that ceases to be effective, your players degenerate the game in to a fight. I honestly think if you had stuck to playing rugby in our first encounter, you would have won it. Your tactics cost you a win that day.

You think this is what the public want? Maybe 30 years ago, that thinking might have had a minute semblance of credence. These days however, you could not be further from the truth.  Most people do not want to see that these days, it gets old very quickly, as your attendance's will attest.

The length of the stoppages is not the issue, it is the volume of them. If you are happy to pay to watch men rolling around to con the ref and slow the game down every time the ball is turned over, good luck to you, but that is a big part of what is driving paying spectators away.

[boro hornet]

So when a player is on the ground with the physio and two doctors checking him out and are showing concern for him its still right for you to boo him.

[DOGFATHER]

Your only argument here is, some fans failed to recognise the one genuine injury in between the umpteen your players faked before and after it?

Most of which had the physio in attendance, to make sure the game was stopped for long enough to allow your team to regroup and allow your unfit players time to rest every time they had been made to defend. Most of which, resulted in the said player springing to life once he had sufficiently rested. 

If 10% of the supposed injuries you sustain in every game turned out to be genuine, you would have used in excess of 10000 players this season. If your players were as fit as the physio, who covers more ground than any of the players during the game, you might not need to slow the game down so much. 

Don't blame visiting fans for failing to recognise the genuine from the fake.

Blame your players, coaching staff and yourselves, the home fans for witnessing it every week and not protesting about what your club is doing to the game. If you guys applauded every injury you would all have biceps like Popeye, or a serious RSI.

 

 

[boro hornet]

So you are happy for your supporters to boo a geniune injured player being treated by a physio and both home and away doctors?

 

[The Lad]

1 hour ago, DOGFATHER said:

I'm not the first supporter who has come away from Rochdale with these views. Look on almost every forum after your games.

Funnily enough its mostly the teams we give a game to, wonder why?

1 hour ago, DOGFATHER said:

Sadly, Rochdale, Swinton and Oldham have introduced it, ruining the spectacle of the game, and then you have the sheer audacity to call other fans unsporting, for failing to realise when an injury is genuine or not! 

I cant speak about the other clubs, but our fans called your lot unsporting for calling a kid a w***** and telling him to f*** off that's the main problem I will concede that there where time wasting you should look at teams like Bradford as they wrote the hand book on it why dont you call them out, oh yeah they are a big club you wouldn't dare but small clubs like us and Oldham fair game, we are loud and noisy and we will defend ourselves if we feel we are on the end of some unwarranted abuse and by the end of it there is an argument that both where as bad as another I will admit that.

2 hours ago, DOGFATHER said:

Yesterday was not an isolated game, I have had the misfortune of seeing you 3 times this season, all 3 have followed the same pattern. You slow the game to a crawl to kill any sort of excitement or attacking flair, once that ceases to be effective, your players degenerate the game in to a fight. I honestly think if you had stuck to playing rugby in our first encounter, you would have won it. Your tactics cost you a win that day.

hahahahahahahah it was our discipline the first time round right, not the ref who we pulled for his decisions and was found that 75% of them we asked the review board to look at where found to be wrong and he didn't ref another game for 2 weeks as a penalty of his negligence, and you call us deluded.

This is the point we gave you a game the first, second and third time as we have other teams and you didn't like that coupled with the fact that you are desperate for a semi-final place and we want to stay up tensions are high and it spilled over both on and off the pitch I guess im the only one big enough to admit that, but its easy when your team was defending the punches not striking first. 

[Northern Eel]

3 hours ago, The Lad said:

I understand there are tactics involved in rugby, didn't you?. And it was the Batley players who struck first.

I get what you are saying about making the game attractive and eye catching but they can't all be winners there are going to be slow games, and as far as "Do you honestly think your tactics are good for game?" the most the game was stopped was for the two times Jono smith was injured the second one resulting in him not coming back into the game so it is hard to argue it was faked.

 And I do believe that people would have com back there where some good tries, a back and forth game and some fights, that's what the majority of people what in a rugby game. Not saying people on here want it but the general public if asked probably do.

It was hostile because of the away fans I don't know where you where sat but I was right in the middle of the trouble (insert accusations I cause it here), and we where taunted  and there was a comment about us not the game but the fans every couple of minutes what do you think would happen if we did that at Jaffa Cake stadium?. The ball by was wrong to have a go at players but when a 15 year old is being told he's a this and that by 40 year olds who have children around them what do you think he's going to do?.

You were doing well until then. At this point, your childishness got the better of you and you lost my support.

Let's just summarise what most decent folk will have concluded;

1. Nobody should be condoning foul and abusive language

2. There's a bit of boy crying wolf with some of the injuries, whilst others were ultimately more serious. It is certainly not appropriate to goad players leaving the field, but it makes them look daft if they've faked injury.

3. RL is a tough game and there's nothing wrong with a bit of biff. That said, some of the reports from yesterday suggest this went too far, from both teams.

[The Lad]

5 minutes ago, Northern Eel said:

You were doing well until then. At this point, your childishness got the better of you and you lost my support.

Let's just summarise what most decent folk will have concluded;

1. Nobody should be condoning foul and abusive language

2. There's a bit of boy crying wolf with some of the injuries, whilst others were ultimately more serious. It is certainly not appropriate to goad players leaving the field, but it makes them look daft if they've faked injury.

3. RL is a tough game and there's nothing wrong with a bit of biff. That said, some of the reports from yesterday suggest this went too far, from both teams.

1, I never condoned it I said that it was wrong ill go more and say it was embarrassing I never once said it was the right thing to do I did say however;

"As far as the ball boy is concerned, while I concede that his behaviour was not right it was in a sense warranted, as the boy who looked about 15 was taking abuse from 5 or 6 men who where between the ages of 40-50, they heckled him and made very disrespectful gestures well before he did"

Like I said in never said I agreed with it a did say however that in that position when you are a kid and men are shouting abuse what do you do?, well I understand it was not right I did say in that circumstance you need to stand up for yourself.

2, Us and how many teams?, please all have done it doesn't make it right. Boy cry wolf maybe but on here there is some pots calling kettles black.

3, Agreed its the end of the season there is tension.

[Northern Eel]

7 minutes ago, The Lad said:

1, I never condoned it I said that it was wrong ill go more and say it was embarrassing I never once said it was the right thing to do I did say however;

"As far as the ball boy is concerned, while I concede that his behaviour was not right it was in a sense warranted, as the boy who looked about 15 was taking abuse from 5 or 6 men who where between the ages of 40-50, they heckled him and made very disrespectful gestures well before he did"

Like I said in never said I agreed with it a did say however that in that position when you are a kid and men are shouting abuse what do you do?, well I understand it was not right I did say in that circumstance you need to stand up for yourself.

2, Us and how many teams?, please all have done it doesn't make it right. Boy cry wolf maybe but on here there is some pots calling kettles black.

3, Agreed its the end of the season there is tension.

And I have accused you of none of what you have just spewed out. In fact, the only negative I raised from your post was that you chose to make an unnecessary quip that devalued what was otherwise a fair post.

Just take a breath and have a good read before you go any further.

[Dogstew]

1 hour ago, The Lad said:

Funnily enough its mostly the teams we give a game to, wonder why?

I cant speak about the other clubs, but our fans called your lot unsporting for calling a kid a w***** and telling him to f*** off that's the main problem I will concede that there where time wasting you should look at teams like Bradford as they wrote the hand book on it why dont you call them out, oh yeah they are a big club you wouldn't dare but small clubs like us and Oldham fair game, we are loud and noisy and we will defend ourselves if we feel we are on the end of some unwarranted abuse and by the end of it there is an argument that both where as bad as another I will admit that.

hahahahahahahah it was our discipline the first time round right, not the ref who we pulled for his decisions and was found that 75% of them we asked the review board to look at where found to be wrong and he didn't ref another game for 2 weeks as a penalty of his negligence, and you call us deluded.

This is the point we gave you a game the first, second and third time as we have other teams and you didn't like that coupled with the fact that you are desperate for a semi-final place and we want to stay up tensions are high and it spilled over both on and off the pitch I guess im the only one big enough to admit that, but its easy when your team was defending the punches not striking first. 

No sense, no feeling, nothing between the ears.

Wan@@strian blather to excuse poor tactics and ill discipline.

[owfener]

1 hour ago, Dogstew said:

No sense, no feeling, nothing between the ears.

Wan@@strian blather to excuse poor tactics and ill discipline.

Dogspew, more like, sicko.....with a lisp.

[PKK]

5 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

That is very disappointing - I thought that it was policy at all Championship clubs to provide admission to those holding junior season tickets.

Obviously not. After being unceremoniously told "We don't do that, we haven't all season" like I should know at the ticket office and then stumping up a tenner to get my two in, I was sort of glad the crowd was 451 (or was it 551?). Zero thought to the future of the game, no foresight, no initiative to get people to the game. Nothing. 

And £7+ for a pint of Carlsberg and two bottles of water!! London prices in Rochdale. ###### take.

 

[Dogstew]

1 hour ago, owfener said:

Dogspew, more like, sicko.....with a lisp.

That's what Rochdale served up yesterday

oh lanky lanky....wancashire!

[DOGFATHER]

On 14/08/2017 at 4:33 PM, The Lad said:

Funnily enough its mostly the teams we give a game to, wonder why?

In all honesty no, I haven't wondered why, I have concluded the close games you have had, have probably coincided with an official who has allowed your unscrupulous gamesmanship to go unpunished. 

I cant speak about the other clubs, but our fans called your lot unsporting for calling a kid a w***** and telling him to f*** off that's the main problem I will concede that there where time wasting you should look at teams like Bradford as they wrote the hand book on it why dont you call them out, oh yeah they are a big club you wouldn't dare but small clubs like us and Oldham fair game, we are loud and noisy and we will defend ourselves if we feel we are on the end of some unwarranted abuse and by the end of it there is an argument that both where as bad as another I will admit that.

hahahahahahahah it was our discipline the first time round right, not the ref who we pulled for his decisions and was found that 75% of them we asked the review board to look at where found to be wrong and he didn't ref another game for 2 weeks as a penalty of his negligence, and you call us deluded.

If the referee had not been suffering from the effects of exposure, given that your incessant time wasting had meant the game had nearly run in to next season, you may have had a point.

This is the point we gave you a game the first, second and third time as we have other teams and you didn't like that coupled with the fact that you are desperate for a semi-final place and we want to stay up tensions are high and it spilled over both on and off the pitch I guess im the only one big enough to admit that, but its easy when your team was defending the punches not striking first.

Are you being deliberately obtuse here? No, this is not the point. You are completely missing the point!

You seem to have some crazy idea, that we only want to watch our team win by 50 points every week. Trust me, we do not.

As nice as that may sound, if you put our current team in to league 1, and we were playing teams like Oxford and going in to games knowing full well we would be posting cricket scores every week. Where is the excitement in that? Sport is about the not knowing the result, the shocks, the elation and heartbreak. Not the utter drivel your team is serving up each week. 

Most people want to see games that flow. With great attacking play, played out by two equally matched skillful teams. Games where the result is in the balance right up to the finish. If you lose those games, yes, you are disappointed. But you will be back next week, because you have enjoyed what you have seen, it has been thrilling.

We have won all 3 games against you this season, and you seem to be under some sort of insane, mind bending delusion we should all be delighted, just because we have won the games. The point you are consistently missing is, most of us have lost interest in the games after the 2 hours plus of watching your players dropping to the ground after every third tackle for a rest. The result hasn't mattered much at that point, we are so bored that we are just glad it is over.

I'm not just saying this to upset you, or to make a point. But, I haven't enjoyed any of them. We have taken 6 league points off you this season, and as nice as that is. On each occasion, I have been looking at my watch with half an hour left to play, hoping the ref will call time because they have been so dire to watch. Your tactics have ruined all the games and taken every bit of enjoyment out of them for me.

You can protest as much as you want, but it is a fact, I am in the majority of fans right across the league who all feel the same. The whole of the Rugby League world can see it, except you guys apparently.

Truthfully, we got soundly thrashed by Hull KR both times we have played them this season, and I enjoyed those two games far more than watching us beat you. I could admire there attacking prowess and skill factor at least.

I was disgusted by Jamie Peacock's interview last season, where he stated that the money going to the Championship is wasted. I thought to myself, you haven't watched what I have over the years. Most seasons, the games have been more competitive in the Championship than those in SL. It has been brilliant to watch, this league has been a hidden gem. Sadly, between you and Oldham with these deplorable tactics to kill the game at all costs, you are making it look like he was correct in his assessment all along.

Lots of us could not give two hoots for this Mickey Mouse, 5th place, losers cup. Some do and that is great, all power to them. In all honesty I'd be pleased if we won it too, but if we don't, I won't be distraught or losing sleep over it.

My only major hope is, as a club, we do not lose too much money in taking part. We will have travelled to France for the fourth time this season, if we make the final. The only prize money on offer, might just about cover the expenses to get there for the final, but it won't leave much left over. Not much of an incentive for winning it, is it?