The NFL Route

[Manfred Mann]

The conference dream:

 

Conference West:

Wigan, St Helens, Warrington, London

Toronto, Montreal, New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Chicago

 

Conference East:

Leeds, Bradford, Hull FC, Hull KR, Castleford, Huddersfield

Catalans, Toulouse, Avignon-Vaucluse, Paris.

[Adelaide Tiger]

6 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

I’m broadly in favour of the conference format, but I do have concerns over spreading the money pot too thinly by increasing the number of top flight clubs too quickly.  There’s also the question of the available player pool.

A Conference system cannot work with the existing tv contract as the money cannot be spread that thinly to finance clubs.  So increased tv and other income streams need to be sufficient.

But IMHO we have a Chicken and egg scenario.  To achieve a Conference style system the game has to give enough notice for all potential teams to prepare for the change, and, to give potential new investors a guarantee that their team - new or existing team -will be included if they meet certain criteria like all the other teams.  But can the game give such notice?

I hope that a Conference style system is at least at the back of Elstone's mind and  the planned growth of both the on and off field over the next 5-10 years is leading towards this.  If not, then in 10 years time we will still be arguing about promotion and relegation and how many teams should play in SL.

Player numbers - lets take the example of 6 newly created teams coming into existence.  Each squad needs around 25 players capable of playing to the standard of SL, plus 5 or so up and coming players.  So initially you need around 150 players of SL standard.  There are players in the Championship,in French, PNG and NZ competitions, plus players in NRL squads or the second tiers that can be found.

Plus if a Conference style system eventuates with increased tv contracts then that immediately opens up the worldwide RU player pool - just like when RU went professional and RL players were attracted to RU.  

A Conference style system at some point is possible but the key is the planning and implementation to make it successful.

 

[RayCee]

It would be ideal if the next TV deal makes allowance for the growth in the number of teams. If more teams are added, the tv deal improves. The issue is would the value of the product increase with more teams? I guess that would depend on where the expansion took place and if the rights holder could benefit from it. 

[RP London]

14 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

We could start off with, say, sixteen teams and split them into two conferences of eight and then could expand over a series of years, with new entrants placing bids to join. There’s also no need to stop at twenty, the MLS in America admits ‘new’ teams almost every year. 

I think 16 is the first moment in which it could happen really.. 2 conference of 8 which can easily then become 4 of 5 and so on down the line always guarantee x number of games but you just fiddle around with who plays who, the NFL play everyone in their division home and away and all other teams on a pre-decided rota year on year dont see why we cant do that.

13 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Indeed.

I'd wonder if the 'expansion fee' idea of the US would work here. 

If say Toronto laid say £10m for an SL franchise. An equal share and membership like everyone else. Even if they failed miserably how would we have lost and not gained? 

The other side of that is would that shut out somewhere like Toulouse? 

that may be difficult for some to stump up but surely part of this is that its ROI.. you invest £10m to be able to get access to the top table of a top league (which it would have had to become to sustain what we are talking about here) which will have umpteen revenue streams etc.. 

the one thing i worry about expansion fees is people buying the "franchise" for £10m and replacing it with someone else.. but probably a worry that is either so rare its irrelevent or you just need a couple of fail safes (do all owners have to vote on an NFL teams move??)

[RP London]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

Yeah it would be the calculation that teams would have to make. The question would be would a team like Toulouse be able to afford £10m as a lump sum outlay plus all the costs involved. On the other hand you could say that barrier to entry would filter to the applicants to only the best. 

I'd be fine with club a moving. But There would be some sort of relocation fee. 

I think if you were to be able to say to someone (which you would have to) that their £10m is to buy x shares in the membership of the group and that that group last year turned over £ym (or £ybn would be nice) and so your share in year 1 could/would be £z and year 2 £a and so on then an outlay of £10m (for the sake of argument) is easy to justify and I would argue relatively easy to find. 

Look at something like Dragons Den.. most of the things that dont get invested in either dont know their basic figures (or making them up) and frankly who would invest in that, or the dont have a good product. Those that do get invested in have a good product with good return and a potential to grow with said Dragons help. 

If you go to an investor and say JUST from the shares you would get your money back in 5 years but because the club will be in the higher league it will also be able to leverage better attendances, better sponsorship, better kit sales, better bar sales etc so you will probably see a return in 2-3 years then quite a few investors may come out of the woodwork.. 

At the moment the sport is very much in the "dont know your number" category where ROI is so difficult to try to work out as god knows what money is where and how you will get it!

[Damien]

Obviously people saying there is not currently enough money for a conference system are correct. 

However if we ever got 4 French clubs and 4 North American clubs a French TV deal for even just a paltry £10 million and similarly a £10 million North American TV deal shouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility. Even these modest amounts are enough to give each club £2.5 million each. With no Catalans taking an English share and a better redistribution with the new TV deal, and of course if the Championship clubs go it alone and get the TV deal bonanza we keep hearing of on here and no longer take SL money, then the English clubs should be able to match a similar amount too. Obviously in reality all TV money will be pooled and divided out but it's just an illustration that it's more than feasible.

[Dave T]

28 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

 Yeah it would be the calculation that teams would have to make. The question would be would a team like Toulouse be able to afford £10m as a lump sum outlay plus all the costs involved. On the other hand you could say that barrier to entry would filter to the applicants to only the best. 

I'd be fine with club a moving. But There would be some sort of relocation fee. 

I have long thought that there is strategic expansion and opportunistic expansion for SL. Toronto was clearly opportunistic. It was presented to us, had a fair element of risk, and tbh I don't think it is unreasonable to ask somebody to pay a substantial fee to join the comp. That way it removes some of the leap of faith stuff, hoping for future TV and commercial deals.

I then think the likes of Toulouse need to come under a strategic expansion strategy. i.e. these are areas that we as a game are wanting to actively drive into.

I think we can justify treating them differently.

[Big Picture]

This thread has some interesting but to be frank, fanciful ideas.  To be blunt, I can't think of anyone involved in the English game who's shown even the slightest indication of being competent to put such a structure in place even if it wouldn't be howled down by protests.

As I've said before, for any such structure to eventuate it would have to be created outside the English RL structure by a whole new organization set up for the purpose.

[Dave T]

31 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

This thread has some interesting but to be frank, fanciful ideas.  To be blunt, I can't think of anyone involved in the English game who's shown even the slightest indication of being competent to put such a structure in place even if it wouldn't be howled down by protests.

As I've said before, for any such structure to eventuate it would have to be created outside the English RL structure by a whole new organization set up for the purpose.

You kidding? We are masters at new structures! 

[Damien]

33 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

This thread has some interesting but to be frank, fanciful ideas.  To be blunt, I can't think of anyone involved in the English game who's shown even the slightest indication of being competent to put such a structure in place even if it wouldn't be howled down by protests.

As I've said before, for any such structure to eventuate it would have to be created outside the English RL structure by a whole new organization set up for the purpose.

If clubs from other countries can contribute on a pro rata basis to the overall pot then I have absolutely no qualms on a separate true Northern hemisphere League structure with the clubs\countries involved all having an equal vote.

[tuutaisrambo]

40 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

This thread has some interesting but to be frank, fanciful ideas.  To be blunt, I can't think of anyone involved in the English game who's shown even the slightest indication of being competent to put such a structure in place even if it wouldn't be howled down by protests.

As I've said before, for any such structure to eventuate it would have to be created outside the English RL structure by a whole new organization set up for the purpose.

Any one NFL franchise is at least 3 or 4 times bigger than the whole of super league added together.........their structure is based on 32 equally rich franchises competing across a continent..........think we've certainly got a way to go yet 

[RP London]

On 1/17/2019 at 12:16 PM, Dave T said:

You kidding? We are masters at new structures! 

shhhh.. dont tell anyone but I'm pretty sure we used to have "conferences" called the Yorkshire League and Lancashire League..