Mid-season international down under 2017 - no brainer

[Scubby]

Australia are ditching the Anzac test with New Zealand. New Zealand are crying out for test matches. England have half their squad in the NRL.

 

Next Year we have as of now:

 

Joe Burgess, Dan Sarginson, Mike Cooper, Gareth Widdop, Jack Reed, James Graham, Josh Hodgson, Elliot Whitehead, Sam Burgess, George Burgess, Tom Burgess - 11 regular England squad members there across a range of positions. The England coach is also there.

 

It would require only another 9/10 from the UK and they are spread out across 5/6 clubs. It would require them to miss two games max.

 

A big test match in Auckland or Wellington (or Leigh) would give the season a real spark. It could even push to two over time and force Origin to go over weekends.

 

This is not revisiting the 2002 horror show. We have a large number of hardened top class NRL players already operating there. I would think it would be an even test.

[Dave T]

Australia are ditching the Anzac test with New Zealand. New Zealand are crying out for test matches. England have half their squad in the NRL.

 

Next Year we have as of now:

 

Joe Burgess, Dan Sarginson, Mike Cooper, Gareth Widdop, Jack Reed, James Graham, Josh Hodgson, Elliot Whitehead, Sam Burgess, George Burgess, Tom Burgess - 11 regular England squad members there across a range of positions. The England coach is also there.

 

It would require only another 9/10 from the UK and they are spread out across 5/6 clubs. It would require them to miss two games max.

 

A big test match in Auckland or Wellington (or Leigh) would give the season a real spark. It could even push to two over time and force Origin to go over weekends.

 

This is not revisiting the 2002 horror show. We have a large number of hardened top class NRL players already operating there. I would think it would be an even test.

Absolutely. Personally I'd be pushing for a couple of tests, maybe PNG or another Pacific nation and then a Kiwi test.

 

I've made the point before, but as a Wire fan, I wouldn't be less interested in the Wire game if Hill, Clark, Currie etc were away for a couple of weeks on international duty.

 

This is very very easy to do. The reason we don't is because we choose not to. When we see other sports stretch further ahead of us, it is decisions like this that put us in that position.

[Lowdesert]

We lack international competition. To take advantage of this seems the obvious choice, if the Aussies have kicked it into touch?

Can't be just a token game, though. Got to be meaningful and full blown, not just a team cobbled together. Remember, the NRL and SL clubs have to agree a release of players. All things agreed, then got to be good.

[Scubby]

We lack international competition. To take advantage of this seems the obvious choice, if the Aussies have kicked it into touch?

Can't be just a token game, though. Got to be meaningful and full blown, not just a team cobbled together. Remember, the NRL and SL clubs have to agree a release of players. All things agreed, then got to be good.

 

Australia want to play Origin on one weekend and have the Pacific Tests on the same weekend. The Kiwis have been left out in the cold. There will be no NRL fixtures on that weekend. The Anzac test has been dumped.

 

How exciting would it be to see NZ v England and NSW v Qld on the same weekend so fans could judge for themselves which is the pinnacle/higher quality?

[JoneslessBishop]

Exactly Scubby, from 2018 the window is there. Most of the players are there. For me we potentially just need to take a half back, a full back, a second row and a sub half back/ hooker. So could take Tomkins and Smith from Wigan and Ferres/ Ward and Burrow from Leeds. Have those clubs kick the season off 1 week early to avoid fixture congestion, and play each other the week after the test to avoid gripes about jetlag and that's the bare minimum you need for a test.

Whilst it's not the first choice team, not far off, and let's the coach run the rule over the likes of Eden, Sarginson, etc with a view to replacing them with Hall or Watkins at the end of the season.

[deluded pom?]

We lack international competition. To take advantage of this seems the obvious choice, if the Aussies have kicked it into touch?

Can't be just a token game, though. Got to be meaningful and full blown, not just a team cobbled together. Remember, the NRL and SL clubs have to agree a release of players. All things agreed, then got to be good.

Technically the players should be available for international duty without any input from their club. As we all know the reality is somewhat different. I expect a few injuries the week of the game that need urgent rest for the next ten or so days.

[Dave T]

Exactly Scubby, from 2018 the window is there. Most of the players are there. For me we potentially just need to take a half back, a full back, a second row and a sub half back/ hooker. So could take Tomkins and Smith from Wigan and Ferres/ Ward and Burrow from Leeds. Have those clubs kick the season off 1 week early to avoid fixture congestion, and play each other the week after the test to avoid gripes about jetlag and that's the bare minimum you need for a test.

Whilst it's not the first choice team, not far off, and let's the coach run the rule over the likes of Eden, Sarginson, etc with a view to replacing them with Hall or Watkins at the end of the season.

I think we'd need to be very careful with this approach. We shouldn't be giving caps away to players just because they play in the NRL - we should be picking the strongest teams we can put together. We don't have enough internationals to have experimental teams like they can in football.

[JoneslessBishop]

Like I said Dave my suggestion is the bare minimum. We live in a world where clubs dictate more than they should, a packed domestic schedule and where we don't have enough interntional RL.

My suggestion could be good for 1st few years, and then we build on it. By using Wigan and Leeds as the clubs scheduled especially, each could provide 3 or 4 players instead of 2, and then you can add McIlorrum, Williams, O Louglin, Hardaker, Hall, Watkins etc.

Best case scenario is we get a 1 or 2 week window around the stand alone origin test and we can play another test against a Pacific Island and the northern hemisphere teams can play each other.

But this is a great opportunity and let's look for the positives. I just suggested a bare bones scenario, and in that only Eden (ripped Wigan to shreds in WCS) and Sarginson (one of England's best players in last 4 Nations) would be contentious selections

[Guest]

Outside of the tri/4nations when was the last time England/GB played a test in NZ? I can remember GB playing 2 tests in NZ on the end of the 92' tour down under but I also seem to remember a shambles of a tour down under in the late 90's I think when players had to pay their own way to NZ or it could have been Australia. Either way I'd love to see more England tests in NZ as it would help both countries and international RL no end.

[Dave T]

Like I said Dave my suggestion is the bare minimum. We live in a world where clubs dictate more than they should, a packed domestic schedule and where we don't have enough interntional RL.

My suggestion could be good for 1st few years, and then we build on it. By using Wigan and Leeds as the clubs scheduled especially, each could provide 3 or 4 players instead of 2, and then you can add McIlorrum, Williams, O Louglin, Hardaker, Hall, Watkins etc.

Best case scenario is we get a 1 or 2 week window around the stand alone origin test and we can play another test against a Pacific Island and the northern hemisphere teams can play each other.

But this is a great opportunity and let's look for the positives. I just suggested a bare bones scenario, and in that only Eden (ripped Wigan to shreds in WCS) and Sarginson (one of England's best players in last 4 Nations) would be contentious selections

We do, however we shouldn't forget that back in 2003/4 (?) our clubs were happy to allow a first team to head Down Under, where unfortunately we got our asses handed to us. I personally don't think the clubs would be against it, even if there was a cap of say 3 players per club.

 

I get where you are coming from, but we need to stop creating fake teams that play games in Sydney. If we also pretty much start doing the same with an England team then we are on a really slipper slope.

[Scubby]

We do, however we shouldn't forget that back in 2003/4 (?) our clubs were happy to allow a first team to head Down Under, where unfortunately we got our asses handed to us. I personally don't think the clubs would be against it, even if there was a cap of say 3 players per club.

 

I get where you are coming from, but we need to stop creating fake teams that play games in Sydney. If we also pretty much start doing the same with an England team then we are on a really slipper slope.

 

Luckily that core England group in the NRL are top quality. We need to ensure that we had the best squad out there however. Giving Luke Burgess a cap because he can share a cab with Sam isn't the way to go.

[Dave T]

Luckily that core England group in the NRL are top quality. We need to ensure that we had the best squad out there however. Giving Luke Burgess a cap because he can share a cab with Sam isn't the way to go.

and thats my point. The likes of Eden and Luke Burgess need to earn spots rather than be gifted one.

[Kris]

I like the idea and its a sure fire way to bring the Knights idea back to the table at the very least - we need tests even more than NZ do and if we could have an agreement whereby a player from each SL side could then go over along with the 10 we have there that's 22 and I would fancy Bennett would not stop short of trying out new combinations with English "heritage" players - he has already said if they qualify and are good enough they are in.

 

One off tests are about about testing your mettle running up to a tournament or selection process

 

We could play Fiji or PNG as a warm up then have a go at NZ - 2 weekends that's three weeks away from the club environment less than SOO and for us absolute gold

 

Even better we could select players that would otherwise not make an England squad - GB anyone - and that opens the field right up!

 

A very very good idea!

 

I would like to see Lenaghan or Hetherington mid season approached by the RFL and told they have to realease their best player - perhaps Lockers and Maguire - for 2 weeks - that would be priceless as they try shoving Big Nige out the door - anyone know a sitcom writer!

[JoneslessBishop]

If clubs will let 3-4 players go then great. Sometimes in our game a softly softly approach is needed. Look how we have gone from WCS to 3 team 1 country WCC, to now what looks like a 4 team 2 country WCC. NB I'd expect a better English result in an NZ test.

If we had Pacific test in Sydney and my initial suggestion for an England NZ test in year 1, then full blown test and pacific test in pacific nations by year 3/4 Id be happy

[Dave T]

If clubs will let 3-4 players go then great. Sometimes in our game a softly softly approach is needed. Look how we have gone from WCS to 3 team 1 country WCC, to now what looks like a 4 team 2 country WCC. NB I'd expect a better English result in an NZ test.

If we had Pacific test in Sydney and my initial suggestion for an England NZ test in year 1, then full blown test and pacific test in pacific nations by year 3/4 Id be happy

A team of...

Tomkins

McGivallray

Cudjoe

Watkins

Hall

Widdop

Smith

Hill

Hodgson

Graham

Whitehead

Currie

O'Loughlin

Burgess

Burgess

Clark

Cooper

Sees no more than three from Wigan and Wire if ive counted correctly.

[deluded pom?]

If clubs will let 3-4 players go then great. Sometimes in our game a softly softly approach is needed. Look how we have gone from WCS to 3 team 1 country WCC, to now what looks like a 4 team 2 country WCC. NB I'd expect a better English result in an NZ test.

If we had Pacific test in Sydney and my initial suggestion for an England NZ test in year 1, then full blown test and pacific test in pacific nations by year 3/4 Id be happy

Why can't we have a PI Test in the PI? We managed it before when GB went to Fiji in 1996(?)

[JoneslessBishop]

Gents we are all essentially on the same page here. It's just how we get there. Let's not find a sentence or two to take issue with. However, in the interests of facetiousness:

DT, the team you chose did have more players than I suggested from Leeds or Wigan. The below does not. j Butgess started 2 games last autumn, MCGilvery one. Watkins flattered to deceive last autumn, Satgison impressed autumn prior. Sam Burgess compared to an ageing O'Loughlin in 2 years is perfectly likely. And you'd seriously play Cudjoe over Reed? I think you are the one putting out a weekend XVII to support your point.

Like I said, if we get a window when all clubs will release players, that is the best case scenario. Knowing that in our sport, to evolve international RL you need a little patience. (Like the example of the WCS I stated), my Leeds-Wigan suggestion was just stage one, as you well know.

1. S Tomkins

2. J Burgess

3. Sargison

4. Reed

5. Hall

6. Smith

7. Widdop

8. Graham

9. Hodgson

10. G Burgess

11. Ferres

12. Whitehead

13. S Burgess

Burrow

Cooper

T Burgess

Ward

Similarly Deluded, you have chosen to highlight half a sentence and ignore the rest of it. Yes we had a test in the PIs 20 years ago. The Pacifc Nations played each other in Sydney last year. Surely the latter is more relevant, and I like I said, the End game should be test in PIs.

Jeez .....

[Hvy wg]

Make it a game-less Super League week. ENG - NZ in Oz. France - England Knights in Perpignan. 

Profit.

[Lowdesert]

Exactly Scubby, from 2018 the window is there. Most of the players are there. For me we potentially just need to take a half back, a full back, a second row and a sub half back/ hooker. So could take Tomkins and Smith from Wigan and Ferres/ Ward and Burrow from Leeds. Have those clubs kick the season off 1 week early to avoid fixture congestion, and play each other the week after the test to avoid gripes about jetlag and that's the bare minimum you need for a test.

Whilst it's not the first choice team, not far off, and let's the coach run the rule over the likes of Eden, Sarginson, etc with a view to replacing them with Hall or Watkins at the end of the season.

The players, especially those who play internationals, play too many games now. Too many games = not enough rest. No good. The players will say 'yes' as many think they are gladiators, but the coaches will say no.

It must be a first choice team or not at all. Any England/GB team must go with the intention to win, nothing less.

[roughyedspud]

england going to auckland to replace australia in the mid season test was discussed during our recent test series....i know that for a fact 

[The Future is League]

Shouldn't we be looking as well at playing France in France on Bastille day using only players from Super League for our team?

The 2 postives for me would be it would give so called international fringe players a run out at international level and also help boost French Rugby League.

[JoneslessBishop]

And the team I suggested this morning is perfectly set up to win Lowdesert. The scenarios suggested could also include Watkins for example. Travel is as much an issue as extra games, so minimisng travel for some of our top

Players mid-season, so they are fit for the end of season, which is the interntional business end, has its merits. If Sraginson plays well in NRL there is every reason to play him instead of Watkins mid-season.

Glad to here it Roughy.

Adding a mid-season test against NZ would be an excellent addition to the calendar

[Scubby]

Shouldn't we be looking as well at playing France in France on Bastille day using only players from Super League for our team?

The 2 postives for me would be it would give so called international fringe players a run out at international level and also help boost French Rugby League.

 

Exactly we need to showcase our stars on the International stage. Outside of the big events Challenge Cup, Grand Final etc. no-one cares excepts the die hards.

 

It's not about flogging a dead horse week-to-week, it is about creating more showcase events for our biggest stars.

[Dave T]

Gents we are all essentially on the same page here. It's just how we get there. Let's not find a sentence or two to take issue with. However, in the interests of facetiousness:

DT, the team you chose did have more players than I suggested from Leeds or Wigan. The below does not. j Butgess started 2 games last autumn, MCGilvery one. Watkins flattered to deceive last autumn, Satgison impressed autumn prior. Sam Burgess compared to an ageing O'Loughlin in 2 years is perfectly likely. And you'd seriously play Cudjoe over Reed? I think you are the one putting out a weekend XVII to support your point.

Like I said, if we get a window when all clubs will release players, that is the best case scenario. Knowing that in our sport, to evolve international RL you need a little patience. (Like the example of the WCS I stated), my Leeds-Wigan suggestion was just stage one, as you well know.

1. S Tomkins

2. J Burgess

3. Sargison

4. Reed

5. Hall

6. Smith

7. Widdop

8. Graham

9. Hodgson

10. G Burgess

11. Ferres

12. Whitehead

13. S Burgess

Burrow

Cooper

T Burgess

Ward

Similarly Deluded, you have chosen to highlight half a sentence and ignore the rest of it. Yes we had a test in the PIs 20 years ago. The Pacifc Nations played each other in Sydney last year. Surely the latter is more relevant, and I like I said, the End game should be test in PIs.

Jeez .....

You seem to be getting stroppy for no reason. The team I named pointed out that only 10 players would need to come over from SL. If the game can't cope with losing that many then we are in real trouble.

 

How would the likes of Chris Hill feel valued in your system? Or Ben Currie, or Daryl Clark. 

 

Agreeing to use only NRL and Wigan and Leeds lads is a joke of an England team. Surely you can see that?

 

Daryl Clark or James Roby could be playing out of their skin, but Rob Burrow gets on the plane to represent his country in New Zealand? Absolutely barking!

 

And I forgot about Reed. I wasn't trying to fudge any numbers, just naming what could easily be an England team for the 4N this year.

[JoneslessBishop]

Apologies if I misread DT but by just stating a line up and saying not just Leeds or Wire players was brief enough to require (mis?)interpretation.

As I have labored to emphasise, and I shan't again, I was just suggesting a bare minimum scenario that could get the concept literally off the ground. Again, if more players could be made available in our club enteric, fixture heavy schedule then great.

For a 1 off test, I like a replacement who can play hooker or in the halves in case either position gets injured. Burrow only player who fits the bill at the moment. Not a slight on Roby or Clark. I would definitely take the former ahead of Burrow for multiple games, as coach could make a call on more easily on who is maybe carrying an injury in a key position.

I think Hill and Currie could cope without making a round the world trip mid season as long as they knew they were under consideration at the end of the season. Prop and second row is certainly positions where we have a glut of talent.

But like I said, if the SL and NRL would be happy for wider squads straight away then great. But I think we all know RL isn't like that. But fingers crossed