The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)

[Martyn Sadler]

I believe that if yourselves in the press had been part of the process you would probably have been enthused.

 

Instead you are presented with the findings afterwards and out comes the negativity. For me the licensing system was brought into disrepute when a basket case like Crusaders almost had Wakefield sent into oblivion and we all know it WOULD have happened if Crusaders hadn't have pulled out of their own accord. Look at Wakefield now, 10,000 crowd last week what an utter disgrace it would have been for a club never once finishing bottom of Super League to make way for such a half baked alternative. Never again can we have the status of clubs decided by a few blokes in suits sat around a table it has be about performance on the pitch.

 

With the multiple financial failures of Super League clubs under the licensing system something had to change. If your newspaper was losing money hand over fist and people on a forum said no we like things as they are I'm sure you'd have no choice but to ignore them.

 

I think we have a brilliant and innovative solution to some of the games problems which importantly tries to address problems not just in Super League but across all divisions. Of course it will not be perfect and it will not please everyone but some of these people are still fantasising about SL clubs in places like Barcelona and would happily kick out a club with thousands of fans like Wakefield to accommodate them.

 

Meanwhile there are people running and financing rugby league clubs who are actually the most important people in the game. They've hired professionals to come up with ideas and have chosen what they think to be the pick of options presented. Don't like it? Why not stump up a few million to relieve the owners of some of their burden then I expect you'll get a say too.

I've actually had meetings and discussions with members of the RFL staff from Nigel Wood downwards throughout this process, and they have been unable to persuade me that this proposal makes sense.

 

I've proposed several alternatives to them, but they seem determined to go ahead with the proposal that emanates from the KPMG consultation.

 

You do make a good point about Wakefield coming close to exclusion from the Super League if it hadn't been for the Crusaders pulling out, and that actually implies one serious weakness of the licensing process.

 

When there is a fixed number of clubs in Super League, there's a danger that you exclude clubs that would be strong enough simply because the numbers don't fit.

 

Conversely, there's also a chance that you will include clubs that aren't really strong enough, in order to make up the numbers.

 

Licensing, if it is to work, should be flexible enough to incorporate additional clubs at any time if they adjudged strong enough to compete at that level, with the number of clubs not being the key issue.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

It's always been over a Bank Holiday (with one exception) so I'm assuming that it needs to be in May.

Could it be moved to the August one? Challenge Cup surely doesn't need to stay on a bank holiday weekend?

[Griff]

Could it be moved to the August one? Challenge Cup surely doesn't need to stay on a bank holiday weekend?

Imho, neither of them do. But it's not my decision.

[Dave T]

Why does the Magic Weekend have to be in the first phase of the comp (i.e. the 2x12 bit)? It adds an additional repeat fixture and arguably creates a lopsided fixture list. Plus the second phase (the 3x8 bit) will presumably give clubs an additional 7 fixtures, which would also have to be lopsided as some clubs would play 4 home games, whereas others would play 3. If the Magic Weekend was in this second phase it would therefore leave 3 home games for each club and make the whole structure much fairer.

its a fair challenge, a couple of issues though:

Your proposal would probably put MW in the middle if August which is Challenge Cup territory and Man Citys stadium would probably not be available.

You also wouldnt know whi is playing who until the week before when the 8 have been confirmed.

[Keith T]

its a fair challenge, a couple of issues though:

Your proposal would probably put MW in the middle if August which is Challenge Cup territory and Man Citys stadium would probably not be available.

You also wouldnt know whi is playing who until the week before when the 8 have been confirmed.

Plus there would have to be 3 Magic Weekends for the 3 groups 8 surely.

[Keith T]

The RFL has said that the four Championship clubs in the 2nd group of 8 will have the 4 home games and I believe that some of the Championship club fans think this will mean every home game will be against a SL club but I would think it is almost impossible for that to be the case and that some of the Championship clubs away games will be at a SL club!!

[a.n Other]

No sensible player joining a medium sized club (ie one that is likely to end up in the weird middle tier) would sign a contract for longer than one year if that was the case.

They would if the money was right.

[Griff]

The RFL has said that the four Championship clubs in the 2nd group of 8 will have the 4 home games and I believe that some of the Championship club fans think this will mean every home game will be against a SL club but I would think it is almost impossible for that to be the case and that some of the Championship clubs away games will be at a SL club!!

Not almost impossible. It IS impossible. It would mean that all four Championship clubs could only be away to each other.

[ckn]

They would if the money was right.

The problem is that if you're writing contracts that say your contract will be cut to the salary cap if relegated then you'd have to be certifiably insane to sign up.  Remember it wasn't that long ago that Wigan were puffing away at the very bottom of the league and could easily have gone down being bottom of the league after round 18 in 2006.  Imagine if that had happened and all of the Wigan players then had to honour their contracts but have their salaries cut to 1/5th of their existing salaries.  Even if the SL2 cap is twice that of the current Championship cap then that's still a massive pay cut.

 

If I were a player at any SL club, I'd be insisting on a relegation release clause if I were asked to sign for longer than one year.

[a.n Other]

The problem is that if you're writing contracts that say your contract will be cut to the salary cap if relegated then you'd have to be certifiably insane to sign up. Remember it wasn't that long ago that Wigan were puffing away at the very bottom of the league and could easily have gone down being bottom of the league after round 18 in 2006. Imagine if that had happened and all of the Wigan players then had to honour their contracts but have their salaries cut to 1/5th of their existing salaries. Even if the SL2 cap is twice that of the current Championship cap then that's still a massive pay cut.

If I were a player at any SL club, I'd be insisting on a relegation release clause if I were asked to sign for longer than one year.

That may be the case. But there will be some players you want to keep hold off to help you get promoted again. And the increase in Salary cap and parachute payment will/should allow for you to keep them. Edited August 1, 2013 by a.n Other

[l'angelo mysterioso]

That may be the case. But there will be some players you want to keep hold off to help you get promoted again. And the increase in Salary cap and parachute payment will/should allow for you to keep them.

Please tell me how this wont mean we have the same teams hiking up and down season after season only this time they will be subsidised from central funds

How will Halifax be affected by this structure?

[a.n Other]

Please tell me how this wont mean we have the same teams hiking up and down season after season only this time they will be subsidised from central funds

How will Halifax be affected by this structure?

Sometimes it might, sometimes it might not. The new structure will give Fax a chance of being promoted. Just like all teams in the Championships.

[Griff]

Plus there would have to be 3 Magic Weekends for the 3 groups 8 surely.

Why ?

[Griff]

Sometimes it might, sometimes it might not. The new structure will give Fax a chance of being promoted. Just like all teams in the Championships.

I reckon it reduces their chances, compared with now. At the moment, Fax have to be the best Championship side - albeit peaking at the right time. Under the new system, they have to be better than all the Championship sides + three (current) $uperleague sides.

I'm not sure Championship club supporters have got their heads around this yet.

[ckn]

I reckon it reduces their chances, compared with now. At the moment, Fax have to be the best Championship side - albeit peaking at the right time. Under the new system, they have to be better than all the Championship sides + three (current) $uperleague sides.

I'm not sure Championship club supporters have got their heads around this yet.

That's not how I see it, they simply need to have a better run in that group than one SL side. If they win all then games against their peers and beat one SL side then they're most likely getting promoted.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Sometimes it might, sometimes it might not. The new structure will give Fax a chance of being promoted. Just like all teams in the Championships.

I asked how the yo yo syndrome wont return, because it looks like it will to me, instead the repoeated failure of the clubs involved will be subsidised. So how wont it happen?

[Griff]

That's not how I see it, they simply need to have a better run in that group than one SL side. If they win all then games against their peers and beat one SL side then they're most likely getting promoted.

So - pretty much what I said then but with less realism ?

[a.n Other]

I reckon it reduces their chances, compared with now. At the moment, Fax have to be the best Championship side - albeit peaking at the right time. Under the new system, they have to be better than all the Championship sides + three (current) $uperleague sides.

I'm not sure Championship club supporters have got their heads around this yet.

There is more than one space availible to be promoted. Therefore there is more chance. The increase funding, full time players will allow for clubs like Halifax to compete with the 4 teams that that come from SL to make the middle tier.

Don't assume just because people have a different view to you that they "haven't got their head round it".

I get the feeling you are against this as it will have a detrimental effect on your club. Sheffield are a great side at the moment and compete with the so called bigger clubs in the championship due to the reduced salary cap. When the salary cap increases they may go backwards as they don't have the ability to match these teams.

[a.n Other]

I asked how the yo yo syndrome wont return, because it looks like it will to me, instead the repoeated failure of the clubs involved will be subsidised. So how wont it happen?

And I answered. Sometimes we might have the same teams coming down and going up. At other times we might not. But the chance I can't make my answer any clearer for you.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

I get the feeling you are against this as it will have a detrimental effect on your club. Sheffield are a great side at the moment and compete with the so called bigger clubs in the championship due to the reduced salary cap. When the salary cap increases they may go backwards as they don't have the ability to match these teams.

 

I get the feeling that you are in favour of this as it will have a beneficial(sic) effect on your club. Halifax have a decent side at the moment and compete with the so called bigger clubs in the championship due to the reduced salary cap. When the cap increases they almost certainly will go backward, returning once more to their role of yo yo club, only this time the sport will subsidise their failure and failure of those like them . Meanwhile the club will retreat steadily and inexorably into its so called heartlands

[l'angelo mysterioso]

And I answered. Sometimes we might have the same teams coming down and going up. At other times we might not. But the chance I can't make my answer any clearer for you.

your answer is clear: and it doesn't look a very satisfactory outcome

 

but it doesn't answer the question I asked which was 'how'.

[a.n Other]

I get the feeling you are against this as it will have a detrimental effect on your club. Sheffield are a great side at the moment and compete with the so called bigger clubs in the championship due to the reduced salary cap. When the salary cap increases they may go backwards as they don't have the ability to match these teams.

I get the feeling that you are in favour of this as it will have a beneficial(sic) effect on your club. Halifax have a decent side at the moment and compete with the so called bigger clubs in the championship due to the reduced salary cap. When the cap increases they almost certainly will go backward, returning once more to their role of yo yo club, only this time the sport will subsidise their failure and failure of those like them . Meanwhile the club will retreat steadily and inexorably into its so called heartlands

You might be right. I don't think you will be though.

[Griff]

There is more than one space availible to be promoted. Therefore there is more chance. The increase funding, full time players will allow for clubs like Halifax to compete with the 4 teams that that come from SL to make the middle tier.

Yeah - but there are more $uperleague clubs to fill those spaces. Plus there are parachute funded ex-$uperleague clubs in $uperleague 2. Clubs from the current Championship will be seventh and eighth favourites for those four places.

I get the feeling you are against this as it will have a detrimental effect on your club. Sheffield are a great side at the moment and compete with the so called bigger clubs in the championship due to the reduced salary cap. When the salary cap increases they may go backwards as they don't have the ability to match these teams.

This is nonsense. Firstly, anyone who reads my posts will recognize that I don't think Sheffield will be a $uperleague club until they get some decent crowds. Secondly, the reference to funding is something you gloss over in the first part of your post.

[a.n Other]

your answer is clear: and it doesn't look a very satisfactory outcome

.

To you it might not do, but to many more it does. Edited August 1, 2013 by a.n Other

[Steve May]

$uperleague

 

$uperleague?   Really?