Could P & R be against Leigh's interests?

[RS]

Ironically in the year that P & R returns to SL the biggest loser could be Leigh.

 

I would be pretty confident that if the previous franchise arrangement was still place then Leigh would be looking at a guaranteed 3 year stint from next year with the ability to build the club in a similar fashion to Widnes.

 

If the Franchise system were in place Leigh's case would be extremely strong and Wakefield's would be almost a weak a case as you could have for retaining a SL spot.

 

As it is Leigh could lose a one off game and miss out. Even if they were successful would probably find themselves in relegation scraps every year for the next few years, unless a massive cash injection was forthcoming, as opposed to be able to properly build a business.  

[Futtocks]

The thing is that there's only one way to find out.

[Ant]

Didn't we find out before?

IF Leigh come up of which there is little guarantee I'd be impressed if they stayed up sadly

[sweaty craiq]

As a Leigh fan you gear up to and play the rules given. The owners stance seems to be that if we dont go up and make the 5 or 6 spot then we get over £200k extra which will be used to bring in more quality players and expand the office ready for 2016. Each year we are FT we will improve on and off pitch.

Its a win win as far as we are concerned.

[Futtocks]

Didn't we find out before?

IF Leigh come up of which there is little guarantee I'd be impressed if they stayed up sadly

Different players, different era. That season in SL was appalling and benefitted nobody. Let's see if they learned anything at all from it. Their squad looks a lot more promising this time around, even before they do any recruiting.

[scotchy]

As a Leigh fan you gear up to and play the rules given. The owners stance seems to be that if we dont go up and make the 5 or 6 spot then we get over £200k extra which will be used to bring in more quality players and expand the office ready for 2016. Each year we are FT we will improve on and off pitch.

Its a win win as far as we are concerned.

until it goes pop.

[sweaty craiq]

What goes pop and in what timescale?

[sweaty craiq]

Different players, different era. That season in SL was appalling and benefitted nobody. Let's see if they learned anything at all from it. Their squad looks a lot more promising this time around, even before they do any recruiting.

Not just squad it's everything about the place is on a different level

[scotchy]

What goes pop and in what timescale?

Its unsustainable for any club, to be spending the money necessary to be an 'SL club in the making' whilst in the championship in perpetuity.

 

It would be similarly unsustainable for clubs rotating at the bottom of SL, gaining/losing a large increase/decrease in funding, in salary cap, in visibility and sponsorship.

 

Its not just the going up that is the issue, its the staying up, and its the rebuilding if you do go back down.

[sweaty craiq]

Its unsustainable for any club, to be spending the money necessary to be an 'SL club in the making' whilst in the championship in perpetuity.

It would be similarly unsustainable for clubs rotating at the bottom of SL, gaining/losing a large increase/decrease in funding, in salary cap, in visibility and sponsorship.

Its not just the going up that is the issue, its the staying up, and its the rebuilding if you do go back down.

It is unsustainable without the £500k to £790k funding, and about £150k from outside

The cushion whilst building is that you are better than those beneath you in the 8's

I understand we will be fine and very competitive should we go up

[scotchy]

It is unsustainable without the £500k to £790k funding, and about £150k from outside

its unsustainable full stop. the funding in SL will be about 1.8m so there is a £1m difference just on tv deals, plus sponsorship, plus attendances etc.

 

The fact is that an SL club can spend less than its funding and still be spending substantially more than a championship club spending more than its funding.

 

Wakefields disaster of a year, plus the fact we have cut two sides creating a buyers market where some players who would previously have been signed by the two extra SL sides have been available to championship sides, has made it look closer than it really is.

As it is at the moment this structure is predicated on there being 'a wakey'

[Krytensmate]

Ironically in the year that P & R returns to SL the biggest loser could be Leigh.

 

I would be pretty confident that if the previous franchise arrangement was still place then Leigh would be looking at a guaranteed 3 year stint from next year with the ability to build the club in a similar fashion to Widnes.

 

If the Franchise system were in place Leigh's case would be extremely strong and Wakefield's would be almost a weak a case as you could have for retaining a SL spot.

 

As it is Leigh could lose a one off game and miss out. Even if they were successful would probably find themselves in relegation scraps every year for the next few years, unless a massive cash injection was forthcoming, as opposed to be able to properly build a business.

And ?

Are you a senior RFL official ?

[Krytensmate]

Didn't we find out before?

IF Leigh come up of which there is little guarantee I'd be impressed if they stayed up sadly

Why is staying up so important ?

[Krytensmate]

until it goes pop.

What goes pop ?

[Krytensmate]

its unsustainable full stop. the funding in SL will be about 1.8m so there is a £1m difference just on tv deals, plus sponsorship, plus attendances etc.

 

The fact is that an SL club can spend less than its funding and still be spending substantially more than a championship club spending more than its funding.

 

Wakefields disaster of a year, plus the fact we have cut two sides creating a buyers market where some players who would previously have been signed by the two extra SL sides have been available to championship sides, has made it look closer than it really is.

As it is at the moment this structure is predicated on there being 'a wakey'

And you ' know ' this how ? , crystal ball or tea leaves

[The Parksider]

1. It is unsustainable without the £500k to £790k funding, and about £150k from outside

 

2. The cushion whilst building is that you are better than those beneath you in the 8's

 

3. I understand we will be fine and very competitive should we go up

 

1. Yes the money will sustain you as top challenger to get in SL

 

2. Steady on with the "building" clubs richer than yours are after your best players, Brierley has allegedly signed elsewhere? Your crowds are up whilst your win ratio is up.

 

3. Who says that and on what basis?

 

its unsustainable full stop. the funding in SL will be about 1.8m so there is a £1m difference just on tv deals, plus sponsorship, plus attendances etc.

 

The fact is that an SL club can spend less than its funding and still be spending substantially more than a championship club spending more than its funding.

 

Wakefields disaster of a year, plus the fact we have cut two sides creating a buyers market where some players who would previously have been signed by the two extra SL sides have been available to championship sides, has made it look closer than it really is.

 

As it is at the moment this structure is predicated on there being 'a wakey'

 

That is an excellent post.

 

Rimmer I think commented recently that the RFL have kinda blown it by getting funding badly wrong, and they are to "fine tune" (i.e. correct their obvious mistake) the funding possibly allowing CC clubs to spend what SL clubs can (if they can afford it)

 

So far from being "fine and very competitive, the centurions are at a serious disadvantage,

[RSN]

And you ' know ' this how ? , crystal ball or tea leaves

Nope common sense and learning from history.

[Krytensmate]

1. Yes the money will sustain you as top challenger to get in SL

 

2. Steady on with the "building" clubs richer than yours are after your best players, Brierley has allegedly signed elsewhere? Your crowds are up whilst your win ratio is up.

 

3. Who says that and on what basis?

 

,

So you are saying Leigh aren't sustainable as a SL club ? , but neither were Celtic Crusaders , but no doubt you were happy for them to get into SL ?

[sweaty craiq]

1. Yes the money will sustain you as top challenger to get in SL

 

2. Steady on with the "building" clubs richer than yours are after your best players, Brierley has allegedly signed elsewhere? Your crowds are up whilst your win ratio is up.

 

3. Who says that and on what basis?

 

 

1. The money will sustain a FT club, the increased money will allow it the opportunity to strengthen further

 

2. There are not that many clubs currently richer than ours in the biblical sense

 

3. I say because I am a genius

 

That is an excellent post. No it wasn't

 

Rimmer I think commented recently that the RFL have kinda blown it by getting funding badly wrong, and they are to "fine tune" (i.e. correct their obvious mistake) the funding possibly allowing CC clubs to spend what SL clubs can (if they can afford it)

 

So far from being "fine and very competitive, the centurions are at a serious disadvantage, yet have already beaten 2 SL clubs

 

This is the precursor for two tens btw

[The Parksider]

 

1. Yes the money will sustain you as top challenger to get in SL

 

2. Steady on with the "building" clubs richer than yours are after your best players, Brierley has allegedly signed elsewhere? Your crowds are up whilst your win ratio is up.

 

3. Who says that and on what basis?

 

 

1. The money will sustain a FT club, the increased money will allow it the opportunity to strengthen further

 

2. There are not that many clubs currently richer than ours in the biblical sense

 

3. I say because I am a genius

 

So far from being "fine and very competitive, the centurions are at a serious disadvantage, yet have already beaten 2 SL clubs

 

 

Come on Craiq,

 

The salary capping and the position of the club as a Championship club who could win all their matches and NOT go up does not put you in a position to build build build.

 

Top players will start to look to get promotion to Superleague on an individual basis. Brierley again.

 

Leigh are no richer than the salary cap allows. You can see that with Marwan Koukash.

 

Yes you have already beaten two SL clubs and we can all remember Featherstone telling us how they had a great business plan, were building and building, and then they beat Superleague Castleford and took Superleague Wigan close.

 

This proved how they were ready for big time........ 

 

In the end it went "pop".

[scotchy]

And you ' know ' this how ? , crystal ball or tea leaves

you may need to imagine a crystal ball and tea leaves to understand the difference but a rudimentary understanding of maths was enough for me to known that 1.8m is a about a million more than 790k

[scotchy]

So you are saying Leigh aren't sustainable as a SL club ? , but neither were Celtic Crusaders , but no doubt you were happy for them to get into SL ?

and when they do go pop. I'm sure you will be the first I'm line whinging and moaning about it's the RFL'S fault and they should help you like they did Bradford and crusaders whilst throwing out insults galore at anyone who dares throw even a small fraction of opprobrium at Leigh that you have and continue to throw at those clubs.

[The Parksider]

And you ' know ' this how ?

 

Because he's "done the math". You were moaning about Toulouse not being "sustainable" enough for SL because of their "low crowds" in the French Elite which according to you were not good enough for Superleague.

 

Well, Leigh's current core fanbase of 3,000 attracted to a long winning run is hardly "sustainable" once the reality of taking defeats in SL set's in. We don't need a crystal ball for that, it's how it works for most clubs. 

 

As for your junior development where is that at in terms of growth and sustainability?? You were moaning that nobody was interested in the Celtic Crusaders, but you were wrong, loads of kids wanted to and did play. How's the Leigh Junior ARL scene doing now? Do the few clubs there are still all want to play for Wigan?

 

and when they do go pop. I'm sure you will be the first I'm line whinging and moaning about it's the RFL'S fault and they should help you like they did Bradford and crusaders whilst throwing out insults galore at anyone who dares throw even a small fraction of opprobrium at Leigh that you have and continue to throw at those clubs.

 

Oppra?..... Opobra?.....Obrumium?.... I must admit I had to look that up.

 

"Severe criticism". Well certainly that's been unfairly handed out to Toulouse and Celtic Crusaders.

 

No doubt I'll get accused of "opprobriumming" Leigh to deflect from the point ("obsessed" is the usual catchphrase), but that isn't the point at all.

 

The point is that the new structure of P & R means that a championship club (whether it be Leigh, Bradford or the evil foreigners that are Toulouse and Newcastle) that has money and ambition (whether that is Leigh, Bradford or the evil foreigners that are Toulouse and Newcastle) to win promotion, and create interest and excitement, refresh the Superleague and put pressure on failing SL clubs is handicapped unfairly.

 

The RFL have admitted this openly and are to review this problem after this season in what they call "fine tuning" of the new structure.

 

OK it may be they say Championship clubs, because ultimately they have to compete in a competition for Superleague should have a superleague salary cap, That would be what I want to see.

 

But IMHO the RFL are frightened that they may get clubs like Leigh, Bradford, Newcastle & Toulouse finding this money and smashing to a greater extent the poor Championship minnows further signing the death warrants of the skint Championship clubs.

 

It all makes for a fascinating soap opera, I shall enjoy following.

[Tex Evans Thigh]

Yes you have already beaten two SL clubs and we can all remember Featherstone telling us how they had a great business plan, were building and building, and then they beat Superleague Castleford and took Superleague Wigan close.

 

This proved how they were ready for big time........ 

 

In the end it went "pop".

Faisal issues aside, was this not partly due to there being a glass ceiling in place during the years Featherstone finished top every season? Franchising was taken away when the club were arguably in pole position and by the time P&R came back the momentum has been lost. Had this system been in place during the Powell years I think Featherstone would have had a good chance of promotion between 2010-13.

 

I dont think the current system is that fair tbh given the disparity in cap and TV money but it gives Leigh (and everyone else) a chance to go up this year. If they do (big if) they can still build as finishing bottom of SL isnt a death knell given you are likely to have a better squad than the championship clubs. Itll be really interesting to see how the middle 8s unfold.

[The Parksider]

Faisal issues aside, was this not partly due to there being a glass ceiling in place during the years Featherstone finished top every season? Franchising was taken away when the club were arguably in pole position and by the time P&R came back the momentum has been lost. Had this system been in place during the Powell years I think Featherstone would have had a good chance of promotion between 2010-13.

 

At Featherstone the glass ceiling was used by the club to spend the three years waiting for a license to build the business, growing the junior development, growing the crowds and growing the financial side of the business.

 

Featherstone worked with the RFL on this.

 

In 2010 they came top, only two defeats and crowds at 1,800. 2011 top - crowds 1,700 2012 top - crowds 2,000 2013 top again 2,400. They kept a sort of "momentum" going.

 

But in terms of junior development they dropped on Hardaker and sold him. In terms of crowds they grew them by 600. In terms of business they ended up in deficit.

 

There was actually not much "growth". 

 

Had there been straight P & R they would have got what they wished for. Promotion.

 

In 2013 Featherstone at their peak copped a RL cup tie against useless London. They lost.

 

This new system doesn't provide clubs what they wish for. It provides them with handicaps they have to overcome to get promoted.If a club fails to get promoted how do they keep their best players, how do they enthuse the fans, how do they create a bandwagon sponsors and investors may climb on?

 

I'm told that regardless Leigh will build and build and build regardless. The same poster told me Leigh were "sustainable" in SL on 5,000 crowds without Beaumonts money. 

 

However I'm also told Ryan Brierley like Zac Hardaker is leaving.........

 

For "Featherstone Rovers" we can now read "Leigh Centurions".