Oldham Predictions

[Blind side johnny]

Questioning the coaches ability after just four games (two won) is astonishing. He has inherited a squad of players who have been underperforming and will take time to turn that around.

This loss was hugely disappointing on a number of levels. We were comfortably on top at half time (although had started to look wobbly in the last 10 minutes of the first); the match was critically important for our hopes of retaining our place in this division; and we were looking to see the players display that they are talented and professional after all. So where exactly is the problem?

Discipline, with and without the ball, is the key. If you are forcing yourselves to do much more defending than your opponents then you will get beaten, purely and simply. We gave away a host of really stupid penalties, and this was the players' fault, not the referees; we simply don't learn. We dropped the ball far too many times even when under no pressure. We were forcing passes in completely idiotic circumstances (are some players frightened of getting tackled?). And we were playing catch-up football when comfortably in front. Why?

My simplistic conclusion is that this set of players aren't used to winning games and, when we are in front, begin to fear losing rather than playing with the assurance of winners. In other words they panicked. Ned will get inside their heads and sort this out, but it will take time, maybe too much time. Next Sunday's match will be a true test of the character of this squad.

[grumpyoldram]

56 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

Questioning the coaches ability after just four games (two won) is astonishing. He has inherited a squad of players who have been underperforming and will take time to turn that around.

This loss was hugely disappointing on a number of levels. We were comfortably on top at half time (although had started to look wobbly in the last 10 minutes of the first); the match was critically important for our hopes of retaining our place in this division; and we were looking to see the players display that they are talented and professional after all. So where exactly is the problem?

Discipline, with and without the ball, is the key. If you are forcing yourselves to do much more defending than your opponents then you will get beaten, purely and simply. We gave away a host of really stupid penalties, and this was the players' fault, not the referees; we simply don't learn. We dropped the ball far too many times even when under no pressure. We were forcing passes in completely idiotic circumstances (are some players frightened of getting tackled?). And we were playing catch-up football when comfortably in front. Why?

My simplistic conclusion is that this set of players aren't used to winning games and, when we are in front, begin to fear losing rather than playing with the assurance of winners. In other words they panicked. Ned will get inside their heads and sort this out, but it will take time, maybe too much time. Next Sunday's match will be a true test of the character of this squad.

I agree BSJ - Ned can't be blamed for the naivety and occasional stupidity of some of the players, the concession of a penalty by a player after he reacted to a robust tackle (which led to a try was a case in point. I really thought, after the purple patch, there was room for optimism, given the style of play we employed (not seen for a long while). Unfortunately, it seems the Morrison influence may be harder to eradicate than we thought. Not all doom though - some good individual tries from Ward and Glover, showed us what can be done if the players can extend their concentration beyond forty minutes. Incidentally, who was wearing the 25 shirt - had a poor kicking game that gave the ball back to Oldham while we were in good attacking positions.

[christheram]

17 hours ago, scally said:

Got what we deserved. Is Ned really the answer ??

Yeah Ned is the answer. Can't blame Ned for that 2nd half shambles of how to throw a game away. Can't believe you've even questioned this if I'm honest.

[Therein73]

GOR: I think it was Speakman who came back on wearing the 25 Shirt.............I think the poor kicking might have had something to do with the horrible clash of heads with Dale Morton in the first half -- guessing by the bandages, it required stitching before he could return.

BSJ: Spot on assessment............ Thankfully not everyone blames the referee for our own ineptitude and stupidity. 

 

[grumpyoldram]

47 minutes ago, Therein73 said:

GOR: I think it was Speakman who came back on wearing the 25 Shirt.............I think the poor kicking might have had something to do with the horrible clash of heads with Dale Morton in the first half -- guessing by the bandages, it required stitching before he could return.

BSJ: Spot on assessment............ Thankfully not everyone blames the referee for our own ineptitude and stupidity. 

 

Agree Therein - referees make mistakes, and they usually  even themselves up over the season, but the bottom line is that if you don't commit the offences, you can't be penalised for them. Hardest job in the game is refereeing - apart from being a Rams supporter that is. 

[EQUALIZER]

Its not the end of the world.Lets say a certain sized lady has been invited to sing but as yet she hasnt got the mike.The turn around is coming lets hope in time.

[Therein73]

Yep, tried refereeing a lot of years ago............ like you say GOR, a referee generally won't penalise if you don't give him reason to ................Unfortunately we find every reason possible for them to penalise us !!!

AND, for the South Standers who aren't convinced - here's a question:  For Oldham's first try of the second half, we were trying to force the man in possession dead in goal............somehow, he got an arm free and touched down for their try-- leading to vociferous and numerous complaints that the referee should have shouted 'held'....... However, if we had forced him dead in goal successfully but the referee had shouted 'held' and awarded an Oldham play-the-ball 10 metres back from the goal line, what would the South Stand reaction have been ????  IMO, the referee was correct in allowing us to try and force Oldham dead in goal -- the fact that we failed dismally is NOT and never will be the referee's fault !!!! It will also never be the ref's fault that we miss tackles, can't complete a set, can't catch a ball and can't play the ball correctly -- and don't have enough brains to leave a tackled player well alone once effected (Mr Glover yesterday, for example). WE lost that game yesterday: It was OUR fault -- The referee can NOT be blamed -- he wasn't perfect, but he sure as sugar got a lot more right than we did. Rant over - UTR 

[Wakefield Ram]

The Oldham player was still moving so the ref can't call held. The ref also didn't drop any passes.

 

[YOUNG UN]

I agree regarding the try and I am a southstander. How the hell we let him get the ball down I will never know. Referee was correct. I also agree that if you don't give a ref the opportunity to penalise you he won't. Where I do disagree regarding the referee is consistency. We were penalised for not playing the ball correctly, player not stood on his feet, but Oldham did it on numerous occasions after that, as did we, and he never blew up again. Laying on at the tackle was on show in abundance but Oldham appeared to get away with it far more than ourselves. Penalty against Ward in the second half when we had the ball was a joke. Had the Oldham player cleared the ruck immediately then nothing would have occurred. Constant offsides on the kick on the last play. TJ's never flagged for it in fact the elder of the 2 found it difficult to keep up with play. Referees don't miss tackles, not complete sets etc but please don't try to convince me the guy had a good game. They are there to officiate a game to a high standard. No excuses when they don't, as in "it's a difficult job". We all have difficult jobs and if we don't do it right we don't get as many chances as RL referees do. 

[ram1999k]

It was a hard result to digest due to how well we played in the first half -- compared to how we've played this season. In defence the lads were drifting and meeting the Oldham players, denying them possession in their own half and the attack was at times very good and nice to watch but there were several occasions where we knocked on in try scoring plays and those decisions lose you matches. Oldham's third try from the drop out attempt mistake changed the game completely.

I was happy to see both Adamsons playing, I thought in the first half they added a lot to our pack and made fantastic yards and created opportunities to score from e.g Luke's break which I think led to Ward's try. Aaron also had a very good game, much improvement now he's being allowed to be a loose cannon and do what he wants around the park! Other than Sheriffe who I think is a squad player at best that team was our best that we could field all season -- nice to see only one dual reg, on its day it can beat most teams in this division. 

[Blind side johnny]

44 minutes ago, YOUNG UN said:

I agree regarding the try and I am a southstander. How the hell we let him get the ball down I will never know. Referee was correct. I also agree that if you don't give a ref the opportunity to penalise you he won't. Where I do disagree regarding the referee is consistency. We were penalised for not playing the ball correctly, player not stood on his feet, but Oldham did it on numerous occasions after that, as did we, and he never blew up again. Laying on at the tackle was on show in abundance but Oldham appeared to get away with it far more than ourselves. Penalty against Ward in the second half when we had the ball was a joke. Had the Oldham player cleared the ruck immediately then nothing would have occurred. Constant offsides on the kick on the last play. TJ's never flagged for it in fact the elder of the 2 found it difficult to keep up with play. Referees don't miss tackles, not complete sets etc but please don't try to convince me the guy had a good game. They are there to officiate a game to a high standard. No excuses when they don't, as in "it's a difficult job". We all have difficult jobs and if we don't do it right we don't get as many chances as RL referees do. 

Just for the sake of accuracy it is a different sport where linesmen flag for offside, in ours the touch judges only flag for foul play, ball in touch etc. The only arbiter is the referee.

[YOUNG UN]

13 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

Just for the sake of accuracy it is a different sport where linesmen flag for offside, in ours the touch judges only flag for foul play, ball in touch etc. The only arbiter is the referee.

Thanks BSJ for the clarification. In that case he had far worse game than I originally thought.

[graham fisher]

Just got over that result yesterday, marvellous what a day at work can do.

That result yesterday was very damaging for us if we've any chance of staying in the championship. The amount of people that I've spoken to today and they've said,how the hell did you lose that game when 24-6 up,well I tell them 1st half our completion rate was very good, defence was even better and our discipline was not squeaky clean but had improved on what it as been in previous games,2nd half was completely opposite.24-6 up why was we trying to force passes and trying to score off every set? As if we were 24-6 down.Our discipline was shocking,let's be honest the referee couldn't wait to penalise us,so don't give him the chance to,it's not rocket science. It was good to see the Adamson brothers back,no matter what some think of them on here they are good forwards, Aarron Brown, James Glover, Robbie Ward, Alex Brown and Dale Morton thought had good games, special mention to Sam Day who I thought went well considering he asn't played much for Fev, Crookes mom, what's that about?

I just felt yesterday in that 2nd half we took 3 steps backwards. For our dominance in 1st half we didn't put enough points on the board,why didn't we go for goal on the 2 or 3 occasions in the 1st when the chance came? Anyway we move onto Halifax next Sunday in which I think we'll see a few changes due to injuries and maybe 1 or 2 not been up to it, mainly the more experienced players.

Btw anybody know why Lucas Walshaw didn't play?

[YOUNG UN]

3 minutes ago, graham fisher said:

Just got over that result yesterday, marvellous what a day at work can do.

That result yesterday was very damaging for us if we've any chance of staying in the championship. The amount of people that I've spoken to today and they've said,how the hell did you lose that game when 24-6 up,well I tell them 1st half our completion rate was very good, defence was even better and our discipline was not squeaky clean but had improved on what it as been in previous games,2nd half was completely opposite.24-6 up why was we trying to force passes and trying to score off every set? As if we were 24-6 down.Our discipline was shocking,let's be honest the referee couldn't wait to penalise us,so don't give him the chance to,it's not rocket science. It was good to see the Adamson brothers back,no matter what some think of them on here they are good forwards, Aarron Brown, James Glover, Robbie Ward, Alex Brown and Dale Morton thought had good games, special mention to Sam Day who I thought went well considering he asn't played much for Fev, Crookes mom, what's that about?

I just felt yesterday in that 2nd half we took 3 steps backwards. For our dominance in 1st half we didn't put enough points on the board,why didn't we go for goal on the 2 or 3 occasions in the 1st when the chance came? Anyway we move onto Halifax next Sunday in which I think we'll see a few changes due to injuries and maybe 1 or 2 not been up to it, mainly the more experienced players.

Btw anybody know why Lucas Walshaw didn't play?

Yes was surprised to see Lucas out and Daniel Igbendion. They may have been carrying injuries?

[Blind side johnny]

43 minutes ago, graham fisher said:

Just got over that result yesterday, marvellous what a day at work can do.

That result yesterday was very damaging for us if we've any chance of staying in the championship. The amount of people that I've spoken to today and they've said,how the hell did you lose that game when 24-6 up,well I tell them 1st half our completion rate was very good, defence was even better and our discipline was not squeaky clean but had improved on what it as been in previous games,2nd half was completely opposite.24-6 up why was we trying to force passes and trying to score off every set? As if we were 24-6 down.Our discipline was shocking,let's be honest the referee couldn't wait to penalise us,so don't give him the chance to,it's not rocket science. It was good to see the Adamson brothers back,no matter what some think of them on here they are good forwards, Aarron Brown, James Glover, Robbie Ward, Alex Brown and Dale Morton thought had good games, special mention to Sam Day who I thought went well considering he asn't played much for Fev, Crookes mom, what's that about?

I just felt yesterday in that 2nd half we took 3 steps backwards. For our dominance in 1st half we didn't put enough points on the board,why didn't we go for goal on the 2 or 3 occasions in the 1st when the chance came? Anyway we move onto Halifax next Sunday in which I think we'll see a few changes due to injuries and maybe 1 or 2 not been up to it, mainly the more experienced players.

Btw anybody know why Lucas Walshaw didn't play?

Lucas was ill - no dramas.

[graham fisher]

2 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Lucas was ill - no dramas.

Thanks for that.

[Crown Flatter]

8 hours ago, Therein73 said:

Yep, tried refereeing a lot of years ago............ like you say GOR, a referee generally won't penalise if you don't give him reason to ................Unfortunately we find every reason possible for them to penalise us !!!

AND, for the South Standers who aren't convinced - here's a question:  For Oldham's first try of the second half, we were trying to force the man in possession dead in goal............somehow, he got an arm free and touched down for their try-- leading to vociferous and numerous complaints that the referee should have shouted 'held'....... However, if we had forced him dead in goal successfully but the referee had shouted 'held' and awarded an Oldham play-the-ball 10 metres back from the goal line, what would the South Stand reaction have been ????  IMO, the referee was correct in allowing us to try and force Oldham dead in goal -- the fact that we failed dismally is NOT and never will be the referee's fault !!!! It will also never be the ref's fault that we miss tackles, can't complete a set, can't catch a ball and can't play the ball correctly -- and don't have enough brains to leave a tackled player well alone once effected (Mr Glover yesterday, for example). WE lost that game yesterday: It was OUR fault -- The referee can NOT be blamed -- he wasn't perfect, but he sure as sugar got a lot more right than we did. Rant over - UTR 

Speaking to a couple of Oldham supporters after the game, their comment was, "We've never seen an 'own try' before". I know what they mean.

I think that try was THE turning point of the game. I thought it was a good idea to take the player over the dead ball line (is 'dead in goal' the correct terminology?), after all we would have got a 20 restart, but on reflection we should have just held him up - stopped his movement - and accepted a play the ball ten metres out.

From that point on we were, as GF wrote, trying to play catch up when ahead and agree with Ned on Radio Leeds, when he said that we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. 

[potato ram]

6 hours ago, graham fisher said:

Just got over that result yesterday, marvellous what a day at work can do.

That result yesterday was very damaging for us if we've any chance of staying in the championship. The amount of people that I've spoken to today and they've said,how the hell did you lose that game when 24-6 up,well I tell them 1st half our completion rate was very good, defence was even better and our discipline was not squeaky clean but had improved on what it as been in previous games,2nd half was completely opposite.24-6 up why was we trying to force passes and trying to score off every set? As if we were 24-6 down.Our discipline was shocking,let's be honest the referee couldn't wait to penalise us,so don't give him the chance to,it's not rocket science. It was good to see the Adamson brothers back,no matter what some think of them on here they are good forwards, Aarron Brown, James Glover, Robbie Ward, Alex Brown and Dale Morton thought had good games, special mention to Sam Day who I thought went well considering he asn't played much for Fev, Crookes mom, what's that about?

I just felt yesterday in that 2nd half we took 3 steps backwards. For our dominance in 1st half we didn't put enough points on the board,why didn't we go for goal on the 2 or 3 occasions in the 1st when the chance came? Anyway we move onto Halifax next Sunday in which I think we'll see a few changes due to injuries and maybe 1 or 2 not been up to it, mainly the more experienced players.

Btw anybody know why Lucas Walshaw didn't play?

He went to a wedding Graham. 

[graham fisher]

6 hours ago, potato ram said:

He went to a wedding Graham. 

Wish I'd have gone with him ??