Replacing CLS

[kev p 111]

8 in each to start with will be a good start. 10 in each a bit optimistic I think. 

[bbfaz 459]

As I said before, this plan was proposed last year by Nottingham Outlaws, who probably won't take part now they're in the Yorkshire Men's League.  There's an element of common sense involved.

[DoubleD 5,218]

17 hours ago, bbfaz said:

As I said before, this plan was proposed last year by Nottingham Outlaws, who probably won't take part now they're in the Yorkshire Men's League.  There's an element of common sense involved.

Won't they? Wouldn't it make sense for Nottingham to slot back into it?

[MidlandsRugbyLeague 201]

5 hours ago, DoubleD said:

Won't they? Wouldn't it make sense for Nottingham to slot back into it?

Travelling in the Yorkshire League will be half the distance and Nottingham are being tested in the division. Why go back?

[DoubleD 5,218]

50 minutes ago, MidlandsRugbyLeague said:

Travelling in the Yorkshire League will be half the distance and Nottingham are being tested in the division. Why go back?

So why didn't they join the YML previously?

[MidlandsRugbyLeague 201]

9 hours ago, DoubleD said:

So why didn't they join the YML previously?

You'd have to ask them!

[Saint 1 1,626]

14 hours ago, DoubleD said:

So why didn't they join the YML previously?

I'm not sure really, though I know maybe 5/6 years ago Outlaws were in one of the National Conference leagues with teams like Underbank and Bramley, and I think when CLS started it was probably the right level for us. 

I can only speak as a player but I'm enjoying playing in the Yorkshire league because we can't afford to have off-days or be poor technically and expect to get away with it. For me personally I'd rather play in a league where we might not finish top or even make the playoffs but we get challenged to play well and improve every single match - maybe moving to YML has made us be more aware of this. 

[Marauder 893]

2 hours ago, Saint 1 said:

I'm not sure really, though I know maybe 5/6 years ago Outlaws were in one of the National Conference leagues with teams like Underbank and Bramley, and I think when CLS started it was probably the right level for us. 

I can only speak as a player but I'm enjoying playing in the Yorkshire league because we can't afford to have off-days or be poor technically and expect to get away with it. For me personally I'd rather play in a league where we might not finish top or even make the playoffs but we get challenged to play well and improve every single match - maybe moving to YML has made us be more aware of this. 

Well said,  it will also make you all better players and I'm sure you'll be in the top half of the table.

I went to your game against Toll Bar and even though they had a poor side (compared to last season)  I was impressed in the way your lads kept their shape and discipline,

[Odsal Outlaw 1,009]

17 hours ago, DoubleD said:

So why didn't they join the YML previously?

After we won the Harry Jepson in 2008 we chose to step up a level and moved into what was then called Conference National (I think, or maybe NL3) it had teams like Bramley, Underbank, Featherstone Lions, Kippax, Warrington Woolsten and was a tough competitive league and the obvious progression from a pyramid perspective.  Also at that stage I think the Northern game was still primarily winter and so didn't have a stable set up to join (happy to be corrected on that)

The league evolved into National Conference South and as the better Northern teams moved into other structures/leagues e.g. Underbank went into Nat Conf the overall quality fell and travelling increased dramatically e.g. 3x Welsh teams entered. Still it had its merits as a Southern based league (Sheffield Eagles being the Northern outpost) and provided some good tests, albeit not on a weekly basis, but that dissolved last year and so the YML was joined, that seems to be providing a good test with manageable travel so gives a good option for the future.

Personal view only but that Conference National in 2009/10 period was probably the highest standard league the Outlaws have been involved in with some genuine quality sides, teams getting paid and teams with dual reg agreements. It was great to be involved in.  

So that's my (personal) view on why we didn't join previously.

Edited May 28, 2017 by Odsal Outlaw

[bbfaz 459]

Very honest appraisal.  Good stuff.

[bowes 698]

It's looking less and less likely this will be happening next season. I'm not sure the Midlands could survive another season like this year so wonder if there'll be an alternative option? I certainly don't think clubs will get stronger playing in the local leagues 

[bbfaz 459]

Yeah, I've heard similar things.  Some of the teams who originally declared interest are now no longer interested.  Others are interested but the Eastern League, if it goes ahead, will be significantly weaker than the one mooted.

[bowes 698]

31 minutes ago, bbfaz said:

Yeah, I've heard similar things.  Some of the teams who originally declared interest are now no longer interested.  Others are interested but the Eastern League, if it goes ahead, will be significantly weaker than the one mooted.

I know Northampton don't feel ready, they've had some changes in their committee as well I believe

[kev p 111]

Perhaps the midlands could merge with eastern league to keep standard up. Maybe west mid teams could go to western div. looks like this seasons midlands premier pretty much folded

[bowes 698]

12 hours ago, kev p said:

Perhaps the midlands could merge with eastern league to keep standard up. Maybe west mid teams could go to western div. looks like this seasons midlands premier pretty much folded

Possibly, though you'd need to move Brentwood to a London based division I think in that scenario (or drop them to East Division 1, if that still exists). I don't think West Mids teams in West would work, but Northampton in east would easily. Coventry Dragons in East would still be reasonably close to everyone apart from Brentwood

[Marauder 893]

On ‎27‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 9:59 PM, DoubleD said:

So why didn't they join the YML previously?

They where located in the North Midland division originally so I suppose it was in the midlands they thought they belonged

[bowes 698]

2 minutes ago, Marauder said:

They where located in the North Midland division originally so I suppose it was in the midlands they thought they belonged

Plus the YML has improved a lot in standard over the last few years. The first couple of seasons it was mainly NCL reserve teams

[Marauder 893]

1 hour ago, bowes said:

Plus the YML has improved a lot in standard over the last few years. The first couple of seasons it was mainly NCL reserve teams

Then came the teams who had no where to go when they skipped from the CMS Yorkshire league to the Pennine to find the grass wasn't greener and the RFL Community board wouldn't allow the CMS to start up again.

[topcentre21 15]

I remember my old club joining the pennine league believing it was a good strong well run league which the yorkshire league wasnt, it was letting certain teams get away with everything and visiting certain places just wasnt worth the hassle it was like going to an organised brawl rather than a rugby game.

The pennine league went just the same way i remember one game when a coach and secretary of a club confronted and basically chased the referee from the field infront of 3 members of the league commitee and nothing was done!

From what ive seen of summer rugby it seems theres more rugby played than fighting i know theres the odd bust up thats to be expected i dont know if thats done to league being strict or players attitudes have changed?

[johnmatrix 101]

1 hour ago, topcentre21 said:

I remember my old club joining the pennine league believing it was a good strong well run league which the yorkshire league wasnt, it was letting certain teams get away with everything and visiting certain places just wasnt worth the hassle it was like going to an organised brawl rather than a rugby game.

The pennine league went just the same way i remember one game when a coach and secretary of a club confronted and basically chased the referee from the field infront of 3 members of the league commitee and nothing was done!

From what ive seen of summer rugby it seems theres more rugby played than fighting i know theres the odd bust up thats to be expected i dont know if thats done to league being strict or players attitudes have changed?

That's exactly why my club left the Yorkshire league. The. Pennine went a bit of the same way in the end, for a period of time the premier Division was one of the best in the country. Alot of them style teams and clubs have been found out, because of their in ability to not follow the rules. I remember certain teams in the old CMS league refusing to play away games and playing home matches and 'taking heads off' and winning, finishing above my team because we played all the top teams home and away and lost by more than. 24/0 that they received for giving games, get the league never did anything about it. 

[Marauder 893]

We went to the Pennine because after Christmas you could go weeks without having a game, we actually went something like 4 weeks without a game, then 7 weeks to play Queens at home (We'd beat them away) they beat us with 2 very late tries simply because we'd lost our match fitness, we waited another 4 weeks before our last game of the season which we also just got pipped, we went from 1st to 3rd in the division which gave us an away draw in the top four, we went away the team we played wouldn't produce their ID Cards, a club secretary from one of the local clubs pointed out they had ringers in before the game started we went to the referee who brushed us off, we phoned the league whilel the game was going on and they brushed us off - We wasn't one of the clubs the league sucked up to, so we left, the Pennine said they had stopped taking teams from the CMS Yorkshire league so we simply dropped out of winter rugby for a season and then applied for the Pennine the year after.

Edited September 3, 2017 by Marauder

[bbfaz 459]

Insufficient applications to make it a viable proposition apparently.  Will be revisited in 12 months.

[bowes 698]

3 hours ago, bbfaz said:

Insufficient applications to make it a viable proposition apparently.  Will be revisited in 12 months.

I really can't see things improving in the next 12 months 

[bbfaz 459]

20 minutes ago, bowes said:

I really can't see things improving in the next 12 months 

We've discussed everything there is to discuss.  You can't help people that don't want to help themselves.

[Hemel Rugby League 111]

The failure of the RFL to deliver a decent elite community pathway in the South is a huge blow - to Hemel and other southern-based clubs in the South - in it's attempts to create a proper pathway to League 1  in the South. With only three clubs  expressing an interest in the proposed East Premier League and clubs like London Skolars not even sending a repesentative to the meeting of the clubs, let alone joining the competition, it shows you just how fragile and deeply unambitious the sport is in the South.