The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[sweaty craiq]

2 minutes ago, wiganermike said:

The impression I get from the articles I have read since the meeting last Thursday where Argyle made his pitch is that the SL clubs and perhaps SL Board are not keen on them being in SL but that Ralph Rimmer and the RFL are more understanding of the issues that have forced the withdrawal and supportive of keeping them in the league structure. Whether the SL clubs had largely made up their minds ahead of that meeting or after it is up for debate but it has been reported that his pitch wasn't well received so that may have swayed any waverers against TWP. It has been stated that more anger is caused by the timing of the withdrawal than anything else.

I expect going off what is being reported that TWP will be demoted to the Championship for 2021. The issues of central funding, player development and ownership of TWP from 2021 onward and any conditions attached could determine whether or not that is accepted.

SL never wanted them, they believed it wouldn't happen. It did and they didn't know what to do. The Championships should not have the burden of cashed up expansion teams in N America, nor should those teams waste millions against the lower league clubs -expand SL and put them straight in with caveats

[Tommygilf]

49 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Oh dear, I don't associate you with juvenile answers Tommy.

I really don't see how that was juvenile Harry, especially given what it was replying to.

[Tommygilf]

44 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Not at all Tommy, I would no sooner go to watch my 'Big Three' neighbour's that any foreign team.

Not what I was suggesting or ever would Harry, just that a team in an untapped or sparsely populated (pro RL clubwise) has some USPs that will help it in many regards.

[Harry Stottle]

9 minutes ago, wiganermike said:

Selecting a panel from within the sport without having some aspect of bias attached to it is going to be difficult. I think a process whereby the RFL select two panellists, the SL clubs select two and the non-SL clubs select two could help reduce the risk of self interest. I would then have the six panellists examine the prospective clubs and make their assessments and give each a score for each category independently. These collective scores would then be pooled and average ratings determined. The average ratings along with summaries of each panellists comments could then form dossiers with the names of clubs, reference to location and other identifying information removed. Those anonymous dossiers could then be passed onto a separate panel consisting of representatives of RFL Board, SL Executive and Sky (as the broadcast partner) who would deliberate and select the best option with reference to which club it is removed.

Either that or if possible use an independent body (not from NH RL) to assess the clubs and a body such as Court of Arbitration for Sport to make the decision.

I do think deciding on-field in a competition would be a better and less contentious/biased method than a selection panel choosing a club but that if a selection panel route is the method chosen, that a selected panel of officials making the decision as Gary Hetherington suggested would be better than the SL clubs making the choice. I don't think we would need to debate for very long whether the SL clubs had demonstrated self interest were they to choose who to have as club 12.

If I was on that board I think that with a little knowledge and a good dose of looking at, the anonymous dosiers would be as transparent as having the clubs name splashed on the front of them. And any such method of 'invitation' would still have some form of Court of Arbitration for Sport, or other Legal entities by the clubs who didn't recieve 'The Ticket' employed on their behalf, the results and criteria would have to be published of why the selected club was nominated, it has to be done on facts not supposition for example Tolouse could get a TV deal, that is no different than Cas and Wakefield saying in 2007 they would improove or move their stadia.

It is not just a lever to play in SL it is also a £2M per season benefit (Toronto fans scream at this point) there is no way other than an on-field process of elimination that can justifiably be deemed as a fair way of selection.

Either let Toronto stay in SL, but I can't see them being given the funding and Toronto supplying nothing in return that adds to the pot, no SL club gets any financial benefit from Toronto being in their midst, in fact it costs them, so stay with 11 clubs until Promotion can be adjudicated by the proper manner in the true sporting tradition.

 

[Kayakman]

34 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

It is very possible, and most probable that will happen. 

Be real K'man, RL in the UK is not a rich sport Mr Argyle suggestions just makes SL clubs poorer, a suggestion that you should be canvassing your club to do if you want to play with the big boy's of the sport is to apply and hopefully join the NRL, I am sure you could be accommodated just as you were in League 1 and the Championship were TWP played all their away games en bloc, then played all their home games in Toronto, all that would  be required is to employ all Australian player's so they can reside at home for their 'home' fixtures.

Oh and you would most probably require a TV deal in Canada to either live on or supplement the NRL funding.You see not much changes.

I see from your posts that you are really fired up today Harry.

[Harry Stottle]

32 minutes ago, wiganermike said:

A fair proportion of those antagonised would be Leigh supporters if his time at Salford is anything to go off. I think Koukash would only be effective as the most silent of silent partners.

But Doc K wouldn't be guided by Nobby Noble and the other clown the architects of TWP's bad management if the TWP supporters, are correct.

[Kayakman]

17 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

SL never wanted them, they believed it wouldn't happen. It did and they didn't know what to do. The Championships should not have the burden of cashed up expansion teams in N America, nor should those teams waste millions against the lower league clubs -expand SL and put them straight in with caveats

Good thinking all around.

[tms]

harry lets have a willy wonka competition where the fan who buys the bar with the golden ticket can choose who goes in SL all monies shared between the SL clubs

[wiganermike]

14 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

SL never wanted them, they believed it wouldn't happen. It did and they didn't know what to do. The Championships should not have the burden of cashed up expansion teams in N America, nor should those teams waste millions against the lower league clubs -expand SL and put them straight in with caveats

I agree with you. I would keep them in SL with caveats pertaining to establishing of player pathways (even if that was a UK academy in an expansion area), schools and community programmes, maintaining a minimum squad size etc. I would like to see them given a proportion of central funding with that increasing on meeting of specific targets. I expect a change in ownership may be a condition asked for.

[Harry Stottle]

24 minutes ago, wiganermike said:

I expect going off what is being reported that TWP will be demoted to the Championship for 2021. The issues of central funding, player development and ownership of TWP from 2021 onward and any conditions attached could determine whether or not that is accepted.

Hasn't Mr Argyle said that TWP need the funding and visiting clubs to pay their own way and subsistence in Canada, how will that work in the lower league's?

[Harry Stottle]

8 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

I see from your posts that you are really fired up today Harry.

And it is noticable by your 'likes' to the contents posted you are feeling very vulnerable K'man.

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

And it is noticable by your 'likes' to the contents posted you are feeling very vulnerable K'man.

His club is going through a major crisis, I'd think being a tad vulnerable is understandable. All about the RL Family though...

[Harry Stottle]

35 minutes ago, wiganermike said:

I expect going off what is being reported that TWP will be demoted to the Championship for 2021. The issues of central funding, player development and ownership of TWP from 2021 onward and any conditions attached could determine whether or not that is accepted.

Hasn't Mr Argyle said that TWP need the funding and visiting clubs to pay their own way and subsistence in Canada, how will that work in the lower league's?

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

His club is going through a major crisis, I'd think being a tad vulnerable is understandable. All about the RL Family though...

I didn't say a tad vulnerable, I said very vulnerable, the 'swagger' has gone from his posts Tommy.

I will miss him though.

[tms]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

I didn't say a tad vulnerable, I said very vulnerable, the 'swagger' has gone from his posts Tommy.

I will miss him though.

Run with the pack harry

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I didn't say a tad vulnerable, I said very vulnerable, the 'swagger' has gone from his posts Tommy.

I will miss him though.

I don't know why you'll miss him? Surely he's not terminally ill?

[wiganermike]

18 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

If I was on that board I think that with a little knowledge and a good dose of looking at, the anonymous dosiers would be as transparent as having the clubs name splashed on the front of them. And any such method of 'invitation' would still have some form of Court of Arbitration for Sport, or other Legal entities by the clubs who didn't recieve 'The Ticket' employed on their behalf, the results and criteria would have to be published of why the selected club was nominated, it has to be done on facts not supposition for example Tolouse could get a TV deal, that is no different than Cas and Wakefield saying in 2007 they would improove or move their stadia.

It is not just a lever to play in SL it is also a £2M per season benefit (Toronto fans scream at this point) there is no way other than an on-field process of elimination that can justifiably be deemed as a fair way of selection.

Either let Toronto stay in SL, but I can't see them being given the funding and Toronto supplying nothing in return that adds to the pot, no SL club gets any financial benefit from Toronto being in their midst, in fact it costs them, so stay with 11 clubs until Promotion can be adjudicated by the proper manner in the true sporting tradition.

 

I agree with you that should a selection panel be the method chosen that it should all be judged on the tangible, extant facilities, finances etc rather than claims of what will or could be. The impossibility of removing bias from a panel chosen from within the sport is why I suggested ways to try to mitigate it. The anonymous dossiers could be handed to an independent group such as CAS for them to make the decision with them having a lesser chance of seeing through the anonymity. As I said I would prefer an on-field contest approach too. Given that the number of declined invites for the Autumn competition is growing by the day that may become a possibility.

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, POR said:

Run with the pack harry

Nay, march with Centurions Legion, Post Office Roader

[Harry Stottle]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

I don't know why you'll miss him? Surely he's not terminally ill?

Now now Tommy.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

Now now Tommy.

You know what its like H, the RL bug is for life not just for Christmas

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, wiganermike said:

I agree with you that should a selection panel be the method chosen that it should all be judged on the tangible, extant facilities, finances etc rather than claims of what will or could be. The impossibility of removing bias from a panel chosen from within the sport is why I suggested ways to try to mitigate it. The anonymous dossiers could be handed to an independent group such as CAS for them to make the decision with them having a lesser chance of seeing through the anonymity. As I said I would prefer an on-field contest approach too. Given that the number of declined invites for the Autumn competition is growing by the day that may become a possibility.

OK,

You have the advantage of me Mike, who has declined the autumn comp, I have only see Rochdale's.

[wiganermike]

19 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Hasn't Mr Argyle said that TWP need the funding and visiting clubs to pay their own way and subsistence in Canada, how will that work in the lower league's?

He has said that he isn't willing to fund the club without it. As a fair bit of the current antagonism is reported to be between Argyle and the SL Board and clubs a change of owner may result in a softening of attitudes on both sides. Lessons on squad and cap management have seemingly been learned, a step down to Championship would give time and opportunity to re-build a more balanced squad. I don't advocate demoting them, I just expect it to be what happens based on the mood music coming from press reports.

[wiganermike]

19 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

OK,

You have the advantage of me Mike, who has declined the autumn comp, I have only see Rochdale's.

Rochdale, Halifax, Sheffield, Touolouse, Keighley so far. London Broncos and York are expected to follow soon. Only Batley are reported to have shown a possible leaning towards competing in it.

[sweaty craiq]

22 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

You know what its like H, the RL bug is for life not just for Christmas

We have the most passionate fans in any sport imo, that passion is badly led when it should be what makes the sport great - do not waste it through division as we are too small to be divided

[sweaty craiq]

1 minute ago, wiganermike said:

Rochdale, Halifax, Sheffield, Touolouse, Keighley so far. London Broncos and York are expected to follow soon. Only Batley are reported to have shown a possible leaning towards competing in it.

Rimmer should walk over this, what research was done before making a fool of the sport and himself