The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Or they have a local rugby team and a significantly bigger "local" football team. Plenty of Cas fans "hate Leeds" on a Friday night at Headingley and sing Marching on Together at Elland road on a Saturday. RL hasn't grown beyond those geographically close rivalries because we haven't had new teams from bigger places displace some of the smaller town teams.

I follow Wigan Athletic , but wouldn't watch t'other lot if you paid me 

[GUBRATS]

5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Or they have a local rugby team and a significantly bigger "local" football team. Plenty of Cas fans "hate Leeds" on a Friday night at Headingley and sing Marching on Together at Elland road on a Saturday. RL hasn't grown beyond those geographically close rivalries because we haven't had new teams from bigger places displace some of the smaller town teams.

Yes , great isn't it 

[GUBRATS]

10 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Or they have a local rugby team and a significantly bigger "local" football team. Plenty of Cas fans "hate Leeds" on a Friday night at Headingley and sing Marching on Together at Elland road on a Saturday. RL hasn't grown beyond those geographically close rivalries because we haven't had new teams from bigger places displace some of the smaller town teams.

Would RL be better or worse if all those Cas fans followed Leeds ?

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Would RL be better or worse if all those Cas fans followed Leeds ?

Not in isolation

[GUBRATS]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

Not in isolation

Explain ?

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Explain ?

If the game had grown to a point whereby Cas had been overtaken by a number of clubs who pushed them down the leagues I'd fully expect a lot of people with grandparents/parents who are Cas fans to support Leeds (as is the case in Cas, Fev and Wakefield now too tbf). If cas are in Super league you want every super league team to be as strong as possible so it would serve no purpose.

[tms]

6 hours ago, ojx said:

I'm not saying this is true for you, but I never understood why a good number of RL fans have this attitude, but then seem to support Liverpool/Man Utd/Man City instead of their local football club.

Because the majority of clubs are community based and have had local rivalries for  for lifetime  I have good mates who support C&S and wakey we regularly discuss the rights and wrongs of TGG but the thought of supporting a made up team would be  an anathema to all of us 

 

13 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Or they have a local rugby team and a significantly bigger "local" football team. Plenty of Cas fans "hate Leeds" on a Friday night at Headingley and sing Marching on Together at Elland road on a Saturday. RL hasn't grown beyond those geographically close rivalries because we haven't had new teams from bigger places displace some of the smaller town teams.

plenty that's moot point  you see more liverpool and the other united shirts on the street in wakey met than  elland road

[Tommygilf]

Just now, POR said:

Because the majority of clubs are community based and have had local rivalries for  for lifetime  I have good mates who support C&S and wakey we regularly discuss the rights and wrongs of TGG but the thought of supporting a made up team would be  an anathema to all of us 

 

plenty that's moot point  you see more liverpool and the other united shirts on the street in wakey met than  elland road

I don't think thats true at all. Granted there has been a recent resurgence but LUFC do very well in the WF postcode area. Man United, City, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea do well everywhere and its not above the norm.

There was significant a number that their displeasure was noticed when the Rhinos paraded the Super League trophy at half time at Elland Road.

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

If the game had grown to a point whereby Cas had been overtaken by a number of clubs who pushed them down the leagues I'd fully expect a lot of people with grandparents/parents who are Cas fans to support Leeds (as is the case in Cas, Fev and Wakefield now too tbf). If cas are in Super league you want every super league team to be as strong as possible so it would serve no purpose.

So you do want CAS fans to support Leeds , effectively making CAS a L1 club , Wakey fans as well perhaps ? , Do Wigan,Warrington and Saints desperately need 500 Leigh fans each ?

Expansion fans don't actually know what they want , the only thing they do know , is they want the club they support to be part of it 

[Tommygilf]

10 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So you do want CAS fans to support Leeds , effectively making CAS a L1 club , Wakey fans as well perhaps ? , Do Wigan,Warrington and Saints desperately need 500 Leigh fans each ?

Expansion fans don't actually know what they want , the only thing they do know , is they want the club they support to be part of it 

I never said I want them to. I said if the game expands and grows financially as a result, in which scenario weaker financial clubs such as Cas would be likely to be overtaken and drop into the lower leagues, I'd expect a significant number of particularly younger Cas and Wakefield citizens to start supporting Leeds. Significant numbers already do and all 3 are in Super League - which I don't think is necessarily a good thing for a league with an already artificially low salary cap to help teams like cas and wakey keep up.

Natural flow of support is to successful sides in any competition.

Expansion fans do know what they want. They're not all one homogeneous blob either, there's massive diversity of opinion. My personal belief is that if the likes of Newcastle, London, Toulouse, Ottawa make it to Super League, the likes of Cas and Wakey will be vulnerable to dropping out by consequence. If they do, little separates them from Batley, Dewsbury, Keighley, Fev or Halifax, who all suffer from an ageing fanbase as younger fans are drawn towards Super League. Thats not controversial, support is fluid.

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

I never said I want them to. I said if the game expands and grows financially as a result, in which scenario weaker financial clubs such as Cas would be likely to be overtaken and drop into the lower leagues, I'd expect a significant number of particularly younger Cas and Wakefield citizens to start supporting Leeds. Significant numbers already do and all 3 are in Super League - which I don't think is necessarily a good thing for a league with an already artificially low salary cap to help teams like cas and wakey keep up.

Natural flow of support is to successful sides in any competition.

Expansion fans do know what they want. They're not all one homogeneous blob either, there's massive diversity of opinion. My personal belief is that if Newcastle, London, Toulouse, Ottawa make it to Super League, the likes of Cas and Wakey will be vulnerable to dropping out by consequence. If they do, little separates them from Batley, Dewsbury, Keighley, Fev or Halifax, who all suffer from an ageing fanbase as younger fans are drawn towards Super League. Thats not controversial, support is fluid.

But is it good for the game ?

You get one or two better supported big clubs , but lose 5/6 existing clubs , wonderful expansion 

[Tommygilf]

7 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

But is it good for the game ?

You get one or two better supported big clubs , but lose 5/6 existing clubs , wonderful expansion 

Support being fluid? Thats a reality that's neither good or bad. If anything it should encourage teams to invest and make themselves more appealing to more people.

You'd get exactly the same result relegating Cas and Wakefield for Widnes and Leigh. Its nothing to do with expansion really, just fan fluidity.

Edit: also, tough sheit, if you're bad enough to be relegated you'll lose support.

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Support being fluid? Thats a reality that's neither good or bad. If anything it should encourage teams to invest and make themselves more appealing to more people.

You'd get exactly the same result relegating Cas and Wakefield for Widnes and Leigh. Its nothing to do with expansion really, just fan fluidity.

As I've put plenty of times , everybody wants expansion , as long as their club is part of it 

Anyway a garden waiting for me , back later 

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

As I've put plenty of times , everybody wants expansion , as long as their club is part of it 

Anyway a garden waiting for me , back later 

Improve as a club and your club is likely to be part of it. Simples.

[Robin Evans]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

I follow Wigan Athletic , but wouldn't watch t'other lot if you paid me 

Has enough time elapsed for me to rejoice that I hope to be watching Baaaaaarnsleeeeyy in the championship at some point this season?

[Adelaide Tiger]

On 27/08/2020 at 18:46, Harry Stottle said:

Yep get our own house in order before venturing overseas.

Just catching up on this topic.

Harry, this is not just aimed at you but to others that have similar views.

There are those of us who believe supporting the heartlands and pursuing expansion are not mutually exclusive.  But there are others who believe that the game must get the ‘heartlands’ or ‘house’ in order before expansion should be pursued.

Therefore can someone please outline:

1. What does getting your house in order actually mean. 

2. What are the KPI’s that would indicate the ‘house is in order’

3. How many years do you think it would take to achieve getting the ‘house in order’ before you would consider overseas expansion.

[Adelaide Tiger]

44 minutes ago, SL17 said:

There is no house in order. No club is self sufficient. Here, there and everywhere.

I agree with your comments.

Over the years posters on here continually challenge myself and others that are supporters of expansion to keep explaining our position.

Therefore I am turning the table by asking those posters that suggest that the RFL should concentrate purely on the heartlands to state what are the KPI’s they would use to measure growth in the heartlands and when do they think that could be achieved.

TBH I am not expecting many of the posters to provide a rational response.

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

I agree with your comments.

Over the years posters on here continually challenge myself and others that are supporters of expansion to keep explaining our position.

Therefore I am turning the table by asking those posters that suggest that the RFL should concentrate purely on the heartlands to state what are the KPI’s they would use to measure growth in the heartlands and when do they think that could be achieved.

TBH I am not expecting many of the posters to provide a rational response.

Set out reasoned expectations of the various clubs ?

The expectation in SL is to be able to spend at atleast 90% of the salary cap 

To have in place some form of junior development , an academy preferably but if not be able to prove a similar financial commitment to development via community clubs ,schools and higher education 

To set clear targets to increase turnover year on year by  at least 5% and provide proof of investment to achieve it 

For the lower tiers again have some form of junior development that is provable financially , basically looking to increase participation levels year on year 

Just a starter for now 

[Adelaide Tiger]

27 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Set out reasoned expectations of the various clubs ?

The expectation in SL is to be able to spend at atleast 90% of the salary cap 

To have in place some form of junior development , an academy preferably but if not be able to prove a similar financial commitment to development via community clubs ,schools and higher education 

To set clear targets to increase turnover year on year by  at least 5% and provide proof of investment to achieve it 

For the lower tiers again have some form of junior development that is provable financially , basically looking to increase participation levels year on year 

Just a starter for now 

Thanks for the response.

But how many of those cannot be achieved by heartland clubs with the inclusion of Toronto, Catalans in SL?

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Thanks for the response.

But how many of those cannot be achieved by heartland clubs with the inclusion of Toronto, Catalans in SL?

I've never suggested they can't , although Toronto and Catalans are 2 completely different things

[Robin Evans]

17 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I've never suggested they can't , although Toronto and Catalans are 2 completely different things

Absolutely. I keep seeing catalans and Toronto bracketed together on the "expansion shelf".

They are very different and their value will be different.

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

7 hours ago, Robin Evans said:

Has enough time elapsed for me to rejoice that I hope to be watching Baaaaaarnsleeeeyy in the championship at some point this season?

No.

[John Drake]

Toronto face crucial talks with Elstone

The prospective new ownership group of Toronto Wolfpack will speak with Super League’s Robert Elstone on Tuesday as takeover talks continue.
The Wolfpack has identified a preferred consortium to take the club forward and have started the process of formalising the move with the RFL and Super League.

https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php?/topic/354677-toronto-face-crucial-talks-with-elstone/

 

[CanadianRugger]

1 hour ago, John Drake said:

Toronto face crucial talks with Elstone

The prospective new ownership group of Toronto Wolfpack will speak with Super League’s Robert Elstone on Tuesday as takeover talks continue.
The Wolfpack has identified a preferred consortium to take the club forward and have started the process of formalising the move with the RFL and Super League.

https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php?/topic/354677-toronto-face-crucial-talks-with-elstone/

 

Looking forward to watching SL in Toronto next season!  

[Adelaide Tiger]

12 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

I've never suggested they can't , although Toronto and Catalans are 2 completely different things

I never suggested you did.

But what I do suggest is that you re-read my initial post as it was aimed specifically at those who said we should ignore/ban any expansion until we have ‘our house in order’ or ‘make sure that the heartlands are strong’.

Nobody has yet responded to explain what they mean or what needs to achieved before they accept that the heartlands are in a strong enough position to then look further afield to grow the game.

Cone on you know you who you are ....