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Nrl to expand again


aj1908
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On 16/02/2020 at 20:42, M j M said:

Who would the fans for a second Brisbane team be? How many Rugby League fans in the Brisbane area are looking for a club to watch but can't stand the Broncos? I'm sure there are some, and I'm sure there might be some who would follow both but I can't see a sustainable club in a Crushers mk 2 scenario.

Yes, I get the NRL wants to increase the South Queensland TV options but at the very least locate it in one of the outlying cities like Ipswich; although I note that article suggests they would play at Suncorp in any event which seems a bit weird. Any new team should leverage political support for a new stadium in its local area as part of the bid.

Redcliffe is a satellite similar to Ipswich.

There are lots of Brisbane residents that can not stand the Broncos and will support whoever they play against, many are originally from NSW.

Having a League mad City like Brisbane having no games at home every other week is an issue.

 

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Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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6 hours ago, Oxford said:

Nrl to expand again

 

When ever I hear or read this never ending saga I simply expect it all to be followed up with the headline

"New Team For Marrickville!"

 

Which headline is more persistently monotonous?

1. NRL Expansion
2. Toronto Wolfpack are awesome because...

3. Castleford Stadium update

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I’m watching the Broncos v Titans game at Redcliffe from the weekend and the stands are jam packed for a trial game. Admittedly many are Broncos fans but I can see why it’s likely to be the next expansion area.

Would it be called Redcliffe Dolphins or would it serve a larger area, eg Sunshine Coast Dolphins or South (?) Central (?) Queensland Dolphins etc?

Edited by Man of Kent
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8 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

I’m watching the Broncos v Titans game at Redcliffe from the weekend and the stands are jam packed for a trial game. Admittedly many are Broncos fans but I can see why it’s likely to be the next expansion area.

Would it be called Redcliffe Dolphins or would it serve a larger area, eg Sunshine Coast Dolphins or South (?) Central (?) Queensland Dolphins etc?

They have stated that they will consider rebranding to Brisbane Dolphins or Moreton Bay Dolphins.  

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17 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

I’m watching the Broncos v Titans game at Redcliffe from the weekend and the stands are jam packed for a trial game. Admittedly many are Broncos fans but I can see why it’s likely to be the next expansion area.

Would it be called Redcliffe Dolphins or would it serve a larger area, eg Sunshine Coast Dolphins or South (?) Central (?) Queensland Dolphins etc?

Letting the Dolphins in would be one of biggest mistakes in modern NRL history.

It'd be like choosing to have Brisbane's version of Manly instead of Brisbane's version of Man City. The NRL would literally be choosing to have another tiny suburban club when they could have a huge metropolitan club that represents half the city. It'd be a huge mistake, especially in the long run.

BTW, if they get a license they're going to play out of Suncorp not Dolphin Oval, and according to them they plan to be called just "the Dolphins".

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20 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

Letting the Dolphins in would be one of biggest mistakes in modern NRL history.

It'd be like choosing to have Brisbane's version of Manly instead of Brisbane's version of Man City. The NRL would literally be choosing to have another tiny suburban club when they could have a huge metropolitan club that represents half the city. It'd be a huge mistake, especially in the long run.

Wouldn’t the Dolphins be looking at tapping into the Sunshine Coast and other towns further up the Queensland coast (Bundaberg?)?

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7 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Wouldn’t the Dolphins be looking at tapping into the Sunshine Coast and other towns further up the Queensland coast (Bundaberg?)?

Trying to rope in regional towns/regions wouldn't be as effective as simply representing a larger part of the city of Brisbane, and even if they did it wouldn't work as the people of the Sunshine Coast and especially Bundaberg (I don't think you understand how far it is from Bundaberg to Brisbane lol) aren't going to get behind a Brisbane club in numbers and travel down to games on a bi-weekly basis.

Besides that why set up in a suburb and target towns with small populations, when you could set up in the heart of the city, target over a million people living in the city, and if you want still target those small regional areas? 

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1 minute ago, The Great Dane said:

Besides that why set up in a suburb and target towns with small populations, when you could set up in the heart of the city, target over a million people living in the city, and if you want still target those small regional areas? 

But didn’t you say the plan is to play in Brisbane (with occasional games at Redcliffe, I believe) and be the Man City you want to see?

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16 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

But didn’t you say the plan is to play in Brisbane (with occasional games at Redcliffe, I believe) and be the Man City you want to see?

Even if they move into the city and change their name to just "the Dolphins" they'll always be the Redcliffe Dolphins in drag and because of that they won't appeal to the vast majority of people outside of Redcliffe, because the vast majority of people outside of Redcliffe that are RL fans aren't big fans of the Dolphins.

Imagine if e.g. Leeds decided to join the the NRL, but they changed their name to the England Rhinos with the intention of drawing fans from other clubs and parts of England to support them, what percentage of the other clubs fans do you think are going to jump on board the Leeds/England Rhinos when they've spent the majority of their lives hating them!?

I doubt it'd be to many right!

Well it's the same thing with the Redcliffe Dolphins in Brisbane.

If the Dolphins (or rather the Leagues club group that owns the Dolphins) want to own an NRL club that is fine, but the NRL team needs an independent brand and it needs to appeal to as many people as possible. In other words they can have a club, but it can't be based in Redcliffe or share the Dolphins brand.

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2 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

Imagine if e.g. Leeds decided to join the the NRL, but they changed their name to the England Rhinos with the intention of drawing fans from other clubs and parts of England to support them, what percentage of the other clubs fans do you think are going to jump on board the Leeds/England Rhinos when they've spent the majority of their lives hating them!?

I doubt it'd be to many right!

Well it's the same thing with the Redcliffe Dolphins in Brisbane.

Not sure I buy this. Do all the other NRL fans hate the Redcliffe Dolphins? I very much doubt it, as they are a QRL club.

Would the Dolphins be hated? Again, I doubt it. Why would they?

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6 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Not sure I buy this. Do all the other NRL fans hate the Redcliffe Dolphins? I very much doubt it, as they are a QRL club.

Would the Dolphins be hated? Again, I doubt it. Why would they?

Firstly, it's not the "NRL fans" you have to worry about, it's the RL fans in Brisbane, as they are the main target audience that a new Brisbane club is trying to engage.

Also the Dolphins aren't just a QRL club, they run teams in competitions from under 6s right up to the QRL team. They are also that club that every local community has, the one that is richer and more successful than all the rest that everybody else is envious and resentful of.

For any new Brisbane team to work, and be able to compete with the Broncos, one of the main groups they are going to have to appeal to is the Rugby League community in Brisbane. By adding the Dolphins you are asking those people to compete against them in the morning and then support them in the afternoon. It's not a recipe for success, and in fact it's failed miserably when other clubs in Australia have tried to do it.

BTW, you didn't answer the question, how do you think the England Rhinos would go converting Wigan and St Helens fans into Rhinos fans? 

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9 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

Firstly, it's not the "NRL fans" you have to worry about, it's the RL fans in Brisbane, as they are the main target audience that a new Brisbane club is trying to engage.

Also the Dolphins aren't just a QRL club, they run teams in competitions from under 6s right up to the QRL team. They are also that club that every local community has, the one that is richer and more successful than all the rest that everybody else is envious and resentful of.

For any new Brisbane team to work, and be able to compete with the Broncos, one of the main groups they are going to have to appeal to is the Rugby League community in Brisbane. By adding the Dolphins you are asking those people to compete against them in the morning and then support them in the afternoon. It's not a recipe for success, and in fact it's failed miserably when other clubs in Australia have tried to do it.

BTW, you didn't answer the question, how do you think the England Rhinos would go converting Wigan and St Helens fans into Rhinos fans? 

I didn’t realise there was much rivalry at that level. When I’ve seen the occasional QLD Cup game on Watch NRL vanishingly few seem to turn up to games.

That’s why I don’t think your ‘England Rhinos’ comparison is particularly apt. I don’t see how the Dolphins engender the same level of bitterness, envy and spite!

Seems to me the NRL have their heart set on a second Brisbane team because the Broncos (and the good folk of QLD) deliver great ratings.

How else would they go about it other than  include an existing successful club with good facilities? 

I think the Dolphins may well struggle to fill  Suncorp but it’s surely a lesser risk to build on strong foundations - petty jealousy aside - than start a club from scratch? 

Edited by Man of Kent
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The idea that there aren’t enough players or resources is just ridiculous. Expansion GIVES you more players and resources. All expansion locations will either increase the player pool or improve the competition commercially.... or both! 
 

1. Perth should be in because RU has given up on it and the new time slot would be huge for TV negotiations.

2. Brisbane should be in, the broadcaster clearly wanted it and the Broncos have a monopoly on the city. 

3. Adelaide needs a team as its the only remaining large city that doesn’t have a big RL presence.

4. PNG - I’ve heard all the arguments.... “it’s not good commercially” “it’s a third world country”.... but the long term benefits far outweigh any of that. The player pool could increase dramatically in the next 20 years with them in the competition. I don’t think there is any other team where you could guarantee a sell out every single week. 
 

As a huge NRL fan from England.... I don’t really care about the Sydney clubs. I tune in to watch Melbourne, Canberra, Brisbane, North Queensland, NZ Warriors etc. I’d show even more interest if there were more non-Sydney clubs. 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Cdd said:

The idea that there aren’t enough players or resources is just ridiculous. Expansion GIVES you more players and resources. All expansion locations will either increase the player pool or improve the competition commercially.... or both! 
 

1. Perth should be in because RU has given up on it and the new time slot would be huge for TV negotiations.

2. Brisbane should be in, the broadcaster clearly wanted it and the Broncos have a monopoly on the city. 

3. Adelaide needs a team as its the only remaining large city that doesn’t have a big RL presence.

4. PNG - I’ve heard all the arguments.... “it’s not good commercially” “it’s a third world country”.... but the long term benefits far outweigh any of that. The player pool could increase dramatically in the next 20 years with them in the competition. I don’t think there is any other team where you could guarantee a sell out every single week. 
 

As a huge NRL fan from England.... I don’t really care about the Sydney clubs. I tune in to watch Melbourne, Canberra, Brisbane, North Queensland, NZ Warriors etc. I’d show even more interest if there were more non-Sydney clubs. 

 

 

 

1 Why did Union give up on Perth?

2  Yes

3 Adelaide would struggle to attract sponsors or investors, although the first SOO game this year may sell out its doubtful a Club side would do much.

The Nines in Perth a couple of weeks ago said plenty about the appetite for non Rugby League fans to embrace our game. 

4 The NRL are not a charitable organisation to build up other Nations national squads although it seems that way more often than not.

There is no money in PNG and everyone that calls on Mining company's to throw a gazillion dollars at the game are dreaming, they are answerable to their shareholders.

They have a team in the Qld Cup, how many players are coming through to the NRL? a handful in several years.

 

 

Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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10 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

For any new Brisbane team to work, and be able to compete with the Broncos, one of the main groups they are going to have to appeal to is the Rugby League community in Brisbane. By adding the Dolphins you are asking those people to compete against them in the morning and then support them in the afternoon. It's not a recipe for success, and in fact it's failed miserably when other clubs in Australia have tried to do it.

Didn’t fail for Port Adelaide or Fremantle

Edited by Sports Prophet
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4 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

I didn’t realise there was much rivalry at that level. When I’ve seen the occasional QLD Cup game on Watch NRL vanishingly few seem to turn up to games.

That’s why I don’t think your ‘England Rhinos’ comparison is particularly apt. I don’t see how the Dolphins engender the same level of bitterness, envy and spite!

Frankly, you are simply ignorant of the lay of the land in Australia. I'm not knocking you for that by the way, I mean you live on the other side of the world. I do find it funny that you think things would be any different down here to how they are in the ESL, Championship, or League 1.

Despite what some people in Sydney like to think, tribalism exists at almost every level of game right across the country, and you don't break those tribal tendencies easily.

Also I'd like to hammer home the point that the Dolphins aren't just a Q Cup team, they run teams in all sorts of comps in basically every age group, and they've existed for 80 odd years and made a lot of enemies along the way.

4 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Seems to me the NRL have their heart set on a second Brisbane team because the Broncos (and the good folk of QLD) deliver great ratings.

How else would they go about it other than  include an existing successful club with good facilities? 

I think the Dolphins may well struggle to fill  Suncorp but it’s surely a lesser risk to build on strong foundations - petty jealousy aside - than start a club from scratch? 

There's nothing wrong with another Brisbane team, in fact it's a great idea, if done properly it'll be extremely profitable, but it needs to have a neutral brand otherwise all you are going to do is alienate people that you need to make it as successful as it could be.

As to how you start that club, well there're plenty of different ways the NRL could go about it, and it could be done with or without the Dolphins (or other bids, you do realise that there're other bids in Brisbane right?). For a start if the Dolphins are willing to follow the Queanbeyan Blues/Canberra Raiders model then there won't be a problem.

You definitely don't need a preexisting club either, I mean do you know how the Broncos (or Storm, Cowboys, Warriors, Knights, Titans, and a bunch of the Sydney clubs) were started lol.

At the end of the day though, if the NRL goes with the Dolphins as is, then they'll be choosing a club that will almost certainly draw an average attendance of about 10-18k fans in Suncorp every week (once the novelty factor wears off), when they could easily create a club that averages 20-25k+, and I think we can both agree that choosing to go with a club that they know will be smaller is a dumb idea, and extremely defeatist.

 

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1 hour ago, Cdd said:

The idea that there aren’t enough players or resources is just ridiculous. Expansion GIVES you more players and resources. All expansion locations will either increase the player pool or improve the competition commercially.... or both! 
 

As a huge NRL fan from England.... I don’t really care about the Sydney clubs. I tune in to watch Melbourne, Canberra, Brisbane, North Queensland, NZ Warriors etc. I’d show even more interest if there were more non-Sydney clubs. 

Agree with your feelings on the lack of talent or resources. The NRL can continue to develop their own as well as hunt UK SL and global RU talent.

As to not caring about Sydney, your entitled to your opinion, but, I find it strange that being from England, why you would care one way or another about the Sydney clubs vs the expanded clubs. Any explanation? Fortunately, expansion is not exclusive of retaining those great clubs.

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3 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Didn’t fail for Port Adelaide or Fremantle

Fremantle were a new club not a promoted one, and Port Adelaide were forced to separate their AFL brand from the rest of their club, mainly because it'd be a bit weird to have two teams called the Magpies in the one comp lol.

The Canberra Raiders were forced to do the same thing as Port. If they had been able to enter the NSWRL as the Queanbeyan Blues they'd have folded by now, because nobody (including myself) in Canberra and Queanbeyan outside of people whom were already Blues fans would have been caught dead wearing their jerseys.

Also you should look up the Canberra Vikings and compare their (multiple) failures to the Raiders success.   

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