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6 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Not got a clue what you are on about , can you repeat your points in English please ?

The game needs to stop relying on the same people buying more of the same stuff and get more people buying initially less.

Thats to say rather than rely on a fan like you or me to buy a season ticket, a home jersey, a special jersey, a couple of pieces of off field gear, cup tickets, the occasional final/magic weekend and bring a mate every so often, just try entice the mate you bring to come anyway because its a good time. More mates coming of their own accord = more money generally.

Though they won't be diehards over night, it creates far less reliance on the core fanbase, especially if there is an acute problem with that fanbase dwindling, having difficulties with the club or even just dying off in the cases of older fans.

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2 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

It really is a great sport..... A T20 evening is great fun with mates or with the family. I'd say it's a different experience to rugby but both are fantastic. 

I think with rugby teams need to have an academy or under 18 game before the main fixture... It works well at Broncos and the first game acts as a chance to get to the bar a few times / socialise / get excited 

So we need to expand our games , not shorten them , no 9 s then ? , Scotchy will be upset ?

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3 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

It really is a great sport..... A T20 evening is great fun with mates or with the family. I'd say it's a different experience to rugby but both are fantastic. 

I think with rugby teams need to have an academy or under 18 game before the main fixture... It works well at Broncos and the first game acts as a chance to get to the bar a few times / socialise / get excited 

Absolutely, makes it an evening or afternoon of entertainment. NRL do it and some SL clubs have started to. Its a base level improvement though and won't work by itself.

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9 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

The game needs to stop relying on the same people buying more of the same stuff and get more people buying initially less.

Thats to say rather than rely on a fan like you or me to buy a season ticket, a home jersey, a special jersey, a couple of pieces of off field gear, cup tickets, the occasional final/magic weekend and bring a mate every so often, just try entice the mate you bring to come anyway because its a good time. More mates coming of their own accord = more money generally.

Though they won't be diehards over night, it creates far less reliance on the core fanbase, especially if there is an acute problem with that fanbase dwindling, having difficulties with the club or even just dying off in the cases of older fans.

Seriously Tommy , you have no idea of some of the stuff I've tried to get RL clubs to do , both as a director of one , as someone with contacts within the game and as a fan , yes some of the stuff could be done , I wanted us to do a double header at the LSV when we had Swinton playing there , us v Batley , the Lions v The Rams , with a ' Lobby ' and beer festival set up between the stadium and the Harriers , with local bands on pre and post match ,I've suggested subsidised transport for away fans ( specifically for that double header to get a thousand each from the heavy woolen clubs ) to improve atmosphere , but run that by the stadium management ? , Not a cat in hells 

The way we are set up in this country prevents us from doing lots of stuff we see others doing , and please, please do no compare us to the long slow bore fest of cricket , even 20/20 is a completely different dynamic 

Edited by GUBRATS

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1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

But if Oldham had beaten Wigan it would have been moot.

If they had beaten paris too.

Yes... but the point is that Paris had been given a better chance of winning against Oldham by being allowed to play reserves at Bradford.

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1 hour ago, meast said:

I don't know the ins and outs of it, only that it happened late on in the season, maybe the RFL were aware of any issues Oldham had and therefore thought Huddersfield or Hull were both in a stronger position than Oldham?

I don't know I'm just being presumptuous.

Yes I understand you are looking at it from the outside but we over here know the full story.  Oldham didn't really have issues other than awaiting the new ground and they would have just played elsewhere until that was ready.

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18 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Seriously Tommy , you have no idea of some of the stuff I've tried to get RL clubs to do , both as a director of one , as someone with contacts within the game and as a fan , yes some of the stuff could be done , I wanted us to do a double header at the LSV when we had Swinton playing there , us v Batley , the Lions v The Rams , with a ' Lobby ' and beer festival set up between the stadium and the Harriers , with local bands on pre and post match ,I've suggested subsidised transport for away fans ( specifically for that double header to get a thousand each from the heavy woolen clubs ) to improve atmosphere , but run that by the stadium management ? , Not a cat in hells 

The way we are set up in this country prevents us from doing lots of stuff we see others doing , and please, please do no compare us to the long slow bore fest of cricket , even 20/20 is a completely different dynamic 

Leigh can't take advantage then. Clubs that do own their facilities could, Wigan are almost certainly looking to create something similar with the park outside. Clearly some stadium managements are more amenable than others. Thats life.

You keep bringing up cricket seeing as though you clearly don't like it I've brought up football and RL examples.

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26 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

It really is a great sport..... A T20 evening is great fun with mates or with the family. I'd say it's a different experience to rugby but both are fantastic. 

I think with rugby teams need to have an academy or under 18 game before the main fixture... It works well at Broncos and the first game acts as a chance to get to the bar a few times / socialise / get excited 

 

22 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Absolutely, makes it an evening or afternoon of entertainment. NRL do it and some SL clubs have started to. Its a base level improvement though and won't work by itself.

The two comments above plus an earlier one from HarryStottle ... all in response to Gubrats view that cricket is boring ... do appear to  show that even with all the extra entertainment provided at a match (ie cricket in this case), people such as Gubrats (and this is not a complaint about him but just to show the point I am making) are still not persuaded to attend as they just don't enjoy the sport itself.

So, should it really about how the game on the field itself can be improved rather than what's happening behind the stand ?

Yes, apart from the off-field entertainment during a 20-20 cricket game there is music between overs and illuminations on the scorebaord eveytime a four or six is hit ... but when would you have that happening during a RL match ?   Cricket has plenty of "down time" when nothing is happening (even between each ball) yet when do so many opportunites come in a RL game which is more non-stop? Music at every scrum or a flashing "Penalty Kick"" sign everytime a player offends ?

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1 hour ago, Big Picture said:

How do you propose that we inspire all those kids to want to play RL then?

JARLFC's

We don't.

Their friends and family will.

Simply assist & support the set up of JARLFC's. Help create the opportunity for kids to train & to play. 

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42 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Not got a clue what you are on about , can you repeat your points in English please ?

I mean, it's not that hard and I suspect you're trying to be a smartass, but I'll dumb it down. 

Accountants don't understand human behaviour - they understand numbers and spreadsheets. 

Numbers and spreadsheets suggests that ten people buying something once (eg, lots of casual fans) collectively have the same value as one person buying something ten times (eg a regular fan). 

But that logic doesn't apply to customer behaviour. Ten people who buy a ticket once are very different in wants, needs and behaviours to one person who buys ten tickets. In some cases the people who buy less frequently can collectively be more valuable, as there is more opportunity for growth. 

RL clubs are generally run by numbers people. They aren't run by people who understand consumer behaviour. 

That means that they tend to assume that the ten people who collectively buy a little are worth less than one person who buys a lot, because the one who buys a lot is a safer bet and is easier and cheaper to sell to. As a result, they place too much reliance on season tickets to measure the value of their marketing and of a fan. This is the key flaw. 

 

It means the clubs spend a disproportionate amount of time listening to the supporter that buys a lot, and not enough time listening to the supporters that by less frequently. 

That means we don't cater to what they want, which means they don't cone back, means they don't become more regular purchasers and it means we don't replace the regular purchasers we lose. 

The same thinking also creates a false image of "an average fan", when there is no such thing. These two groups want the different things and buy for the different reasons yet what the clubs offer them is the same. 

People like Simon Moran probably get this - and it's reflected in the marketing of his club. People like Michael Carter never will because to him, the spreadsheet is god. 

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50 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

JARLFC's

We don't.

Their friends and family will.

Simply assist & support the set up of JARLFC's. Help create the opportunity for kids to train & to play. 

And if they want to play another sport instead because it's bigger, has a higher profile and stature, offers more money if they get to the top etc., what then?

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12 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

And if they want to play another sport instead because it's bigger, has a higher profile and stature, offers more money if they get to the top etc., what then?

They will play RL because they enjoy it, have fun. 

Rugby League tradition is very welcoming, it doesn't matter where you have come from, what car your mam dropped you off in or if you walked or got the bus. You can be a complete stranger, you can train. You don't need lots of money, a pair of Boots and a gum shield is all you need, a couple of quid for Club subs every now & then once you register. RL governing bodies need to keep adding these places people can walk up and join in. Once a player, you hear team mates talking about the pros and the games, you naturally want to see who the pros are and how they play. 

TRL Forum always like to talk about player pool, player development, well, for every 100 juniors you may develop 1 pro standard player, but what people don't grasp is you are also developing 40 or 50 long term fans of the sport. 

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10 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

They will play RL because they enjoy it, have fun. 

Rugby League tradition is very welcoming, it doesn't matter where you have come from, what car your mam dropped you off in or if you walked or got the bus. You can be a complete stranger, you can train. You don't need lots of money, a pair of Boots and a gum shield is all you need, a couple of quid for Club subs every now & then once you register. RL governing bodies need to keep adding these places people can walk up and join in. Once a player, you hear team mates talking about the pros and the games, you naturally want to see who the pros are and how they play. 

TRL Forum always like to talk about player pool, player development, well, for every 100 juniors you may develop 1 pro standard player, but what people don't grasp is you are also developing 40 or 50 long term fans of the sport. 

At last, an argument about doing something that really works.

Every pro' club, every league, every lover of this game, should be pumping out this message, in every town, the whole (RL) world over.

Junior development is pure marketing and it should be an ongoing, never ending part of every clubs marketing plans.

The lifetime value (to the game) of new fans is immense and it costs little to create them by introducing this great game, to them when they are young.

To Big Picture I say, whatever else you try, you must do this.

The sad fact is that in more than 100 years of existence, we have never systematically provided opportunities for new young kids, to play and grow to love, our game.

Just imagine, if every club, everywhere, were doing what Newcastle is doing, to embed the game in the communities in which they operate and had been doing it for over a hundred years.

Big Picture's global franchises would already be here.

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15 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

At last, an argument about doing something that really works.

Every pro' club, every league, every lover of this game, should be pumping out this message, in every town, the whole (RL) world over.

Junior development is pure marketing and it should be an ongoing, never ending part of every clubs marketing plans.

The lifetime value (to the game) of new fans is immense and it costs little to create them by introducing this great game, to them when they are young.

To Big Picture I say, whatever else you try, you must do this.

The sad fact is that in more than 100 years of existence, we have never systematically provided opportunities for new young kids, to play and grow to love, our game.

Just imagine, if every club, everywhere, were doing what Newcastle is doing, to embed the game in the communities in which they operate and had been doing it for over a hundred years.

Big Picture's global franchises would already be here.

100% correct. 

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3 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Seriously , you don't understand the issues we have with the LSV management , they are all from Yorkshire apparently 

Care to expand for someone obviously not in the know?

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2 hours ago, RL does what Sky says said:

 

The two comments above plus an earlier one from HarryStottle ... all in response to Gubrats view that cricket is boring ... do appear to  show that even with all the extra entertainment provided at a match (ie cricket in this case), people such as Gubrats (and this is not a complaint about him but just to show the point I am making) are still not persuaded to attend as they just don't enjoy the sport itself.

So, should it really about how the game on the field itself can be improved rather than what's happening behind the stand ?

Yes, apart from the off-field entertainment during a 20-20 cricket game there is music between overs and illuminations on the scorebaord eveytime a four or six is hit ... but when would you have that happening during a RL match ?   Cricket has plenty of "down time" when nothing is happening (even between each ball) yet when do so many opportunites come in a RL game which is more non-stop? Music at every scrum or a flashing "Penalty Kick"" sign everytime a player offends ?

Some people can't ever be persuaded. Can take a horse to water and all that.

What I do know is that improving the matchday experience has helped increase attendances. There's more people in the world than Gubrats, who by his own admission would go to a Leigh RL game regardless.

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59 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

They will play RL because they enjoy it, have fun. 

Rugby League tradition is very welcoming, it doesn't matter where you have come from, what car your mam dropped you off in or if you walked or got the bus. You can be a complete stranger, you can train. You don't need lots of money, a pair of Boots and a gum shield is all you need, a couple of quid for Club subs every now & then once you register. RL governing bodies need to keep adding these places people can walk up and join in. Once a player, you hear team mates talking about the pros and the games, you naturally want to see who the pros are and how they play. 

TRL Forum always like to talk about player pool, player development, well, for every 100 juniors you may develop 1 pro standard player, but what people don't grasp is you are also developing 40 or 50 long term fans of the sport. 

I don't think thats true. I think they carry on playing RL because they enjoy it. But the actual starting to play RL is dependent on a number of figures, without a mate or a parent to bring/force you along something else has to bring you in

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3 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Yes , Batley do a great job , much down to Kevin, their chairman ,top books , but the ground lends itself to it , and despite all this they are still and most likely always will be a mid table Championship club , about 20th in the scheme of things 

And presumably they're happy to be that? They are happy with their lot and know they won't ever go much higher and so consolidate rather than overspend and bust the club in order to reach greater heights?

3 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Some of us work the day after a game , we can't spend all day getting ###### 

Who said anything about getting ######?

You can enjoy a drink without getting drunk.

3 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

You had to get it in didn't you ? , You wouldn't let it lie ?

No idea what you're on about here ?

3 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Would you do it every week ?

Do what? 

3 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

But the clubs don't own or run the stadiums 

Not all, but some of them should be able to negotiate something if it means possible extra revenue?

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2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I don't think thats true. I think they carry on playing RL because they enjoy it. But the actual starting to play RL is dependent on a number of figures, without a mate or a parent to bring/force you along something else has to bring you in

Yes of course, I was responding to Big Picture who asked what happens when they move sport because it's a more higher profile sport with bigger money if they make it pro. We don't care about that, we just want people to play because they enjoy it and reap the many benefits.

Well the more Clubs there are, the more players there are, the more friends there are, the more potential players there are....

The RFL should be making it so easy for new clubs to access it's insurance policy and it's coaching courses. Should be making it easy to access opposition, by helping create new clubs. The RFL can reward by providing grants to clubs based on things like growth of registered Juniors, number of fixtures completed without any forfits. Can give group cup tickets to exceptional clubs in various categories. 

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2 hours ago, RL does what Sky says said:

So who's fault was it that Paris were allowed to play reserves at Bradford ?

But if Oldham had been better on the field then it wouldn't have mattered

2 hours ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Yes I understand you are looking at it from the outside but we over here know the full story.  Oldham didn't really have issues other than awaiting the new ground and they would have just played elsewhere until that was ready.

But Oldham were relegated because they weren't good enough throughout the season, that's not the RFLs fault or Paris's fault or Oldham councils fault .

I do sympathise with you because of the council giving back word etc, but that has nothing to do with the RFL surely?

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3 hours ago, Big Picture said:

Newsflash: Gaelic football, hurling and Aussie rules are not games played by a minority in their geographical areas, they are the majority sports in those areas so they have a strong base in those places.  An NHL team was planted in Las Vegas three years ago and it's been a big success.  Indeed, 53 years ago the NHL planted teams in several cities which had never had NHL teams before and most of them are still going strong in those same cities and ice hockey most certainly was a minority sport in the US back then.

Ok then, what I meant was that GAA, bandy, and Aussie rules, are similar to RL in that they are played and watched by lots of people in their heartlands but don't have a bigger wider scope.

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The International Rugby League, supported by its two powerful members Should be assisting the Canadian Rugby League Association to get some real expansion started, this in turn would then impress Argyle and then he'd get some finance behind it. Instead the CRLA expect things on a plate and whine about Argyle not supporting them, supporting them in what? Sitting on their asses! 

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1 hour ago, Smudger06 said:

They will play RL because they enjoy it, have fun. 

Rugby League tradition is very welcoming, it doesn't matter where you have come from, what car your mam dropped you off in or if you walked or got the bus. You can be a complete stranger, you can train. You don't need lots of money, a pair of Boots and a gum shield is all you need, a couple of quid for Club subs every now & then once you register. RL governing bodies need to keep adding these places people can walk up and join in. Once a player, you hear team mates talking about the pros and the games, you naturally want to see who the pros are and how they play. 

TRL Forum always like to talk about player pool, player development, well, for every 100 juniors you may develop 1 pro standard player, but what people don't grasp is you are also developing 40 or 50 long term fans of the sport. 

They will eh?  Even if because the junior RL club's facilities aren't up to the level as their RU counterparts or they see that the RL pros only get a fraction of what pros in other sports get in money, exposure and the like or for other reasons RL comes across to them as small, poor, unprestigious, down-market, etc. compared to other sports?  How many of them will give the game up at that point and not even bother watching it any more?

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