What became of Loose Forward

[Tex Evans Thigh]

44 minutes ago, arcticchris said:

Imo though he was very much like Paul Sculthorpe in terms of his attributes and should have been a career 13.

SBW has had a very good career across both codes but I cannot help feeling that he never played in what I think would have been his best position in RL.

He's arguably the best wide back rower of all time but you think he should have played in the middle? If ever I've seen someone made for playing wide backrow it's SBW. Sculthorpe should also have played there but for some reason british RL people fetishize the 13 position. I did it myself when I was a kid, wanted to play 13 for some reason.

[arcticchris]

33 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

He's arguably the best wide back rower of all time but you think he should have played in the middle? If ever I've seen someone made for playing wide backrow it's SBW. Sculthorpe should also have played there but for some reason british RL people fetishize the 13 position. I did it myself when I was a kid, wanted to play 13 for some reason.

I respect your opinion but I think he is easier to contain when restricted to one side of the field.
 

Looking back to prime Andy Farrell etc as a ball playing 13 you want them to be able to float around going left, right or middle to create mismatches and fix defenders.

As good as SBW was under Trent Robinson for the Roosters around 2013 it still felt like he was held back on a leash and in the middle could have been a bigger influence.

 

 

[Tex Evans Thigh]

2 minutes ago, arcticchris said:

I respect your opinion but I think he is easier to contain when restricted to one side of the field.
 

Looking back to prime Andy Farrell etc as a ball playing 13 you want them to be able to float around going left, right or middle to create mismatches and fix defenders.

As good as SBW was under Trent Robinson for the Roosters around 2013 it still felt like he was held back on a leash and in the middle could have been a bigger influence.

 

 

You can do more damage on an edge. 13s dont float around, full backs make up extra numbers. If you play 13 you have to do work, there is not a single scenario where SBW is better in the middle than on the edge in his prime. He would absolutely not be easier to contain on an edge. Put yourself in a halfback's shoes who is going to get isolated 1 on 1 at least a couple of times with probably the best athlete I've seen play our game. He's one of the best wide back rowers ever, that's why he played there. 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

On 19/09/2020 at 21:00, Davo5 said:

You haven’t watched the Roosters last 2 games then.

Quite right. People like to pile on SBW because it’s easy, but I reckon he’s gone well so far. The issue at Wolfpack was clearly his rustiness multiplied by players around him not seeing what he could see 

[Tonka]

Without romanticizing 13s I think the game's dumbed down a bit.  The 6 and 7 role's the same, the 13's a prop, second rows used to be wider running with more offload.  It's all very structured.

I'll get me whippet...

[Harry Stottle]

8 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Quite right. People like to pile on SBW because it’s easy, but I reckon he’s gone well so far. The issue at Wolfpack was clearly his rustiness multiplied by players around him not seeing what he could see 

Thats why he was paid $1M a season, to lead the others on the field. 

Incidentally Toronto's only win v Huddersfield in the cup was minus his influence, he didn't play!

[Barry Badrinath]

39 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Without romanticizing 13s I think the game's dumbed down a bit.  The 6 and 7 role's the same, the 13's a prop, second rows used to be wider running with more offload.  It's all very structured.

I'll get me whippet...

i have this row with other wire fans in the pub(a while back obvs) ben currie has a fantastic offload, they're convinced he would make a great 13 because of this, when he's spent his entire career being a speedy edge runner bursting through tiny gaps. we never ever have him fill in at 13, thats not how the modern game goes and it definitely isn't how steve price sets his teams up.

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Thats why he was paid $1M a season, to lead the others on the field. 

Incidentally Toronto's only win v Huddersfield in the cup was minus his influence, he didn't play!

Nah mate, he was (or more likely wasn’t) paid $1m a season because doing so made Argyll’s ego feel good about itself 

 

 

[Rupert Prince]

1 hour ago, Barry Badrinath said:

i have this row with other wire fans in the pub(a while back obvs) ben currie has a fantastic offload, they're convinced he would make a great 13 because of this, when he's spent his entire career being a speedy edge runner bursting through tiny gaps. we never ever have him fill in at 13, thats not how the modern game goes and it definitely isn't how steve price sets his teams up.

Given the 11 yard line, the tendency is to charge up field, so 3 props, supported by wingers possibly using their speed, to move up the middle. Plus hookers become more of an organiser in the middle - they have the space to do that with a 11yard line.  As such the second rows work a lot on between the halves and centres.

All results in the old 13 going out of fashion, their place covered by edge forwards and 6 & 7.

There are other nuances of course around some individuals. Hanley could play 3/4, 6 or 13 in the modern game. Wally Lewis could play 6 or 13.

[old un]

Town's Billy Ivison was the daddy of them all for both attack and defence.

 

[Tonka]

3 hours ago, Barry Badrinath said:

i have this row with other wire fans in the pub(a while back obvs) ben currie has a fantastic offload, they're convinced he would make a great 13 because of this, when he's spent his entire career being a speedy edge runner bursting through tiny gaps. we never ever have him fill in at 13, thats not how the modern game goes and it definitely isn't how steve price sets his teams up.

100% - there's the new breed of 13 alluded to above which isn't the old ball playing 13 or recent "third prop" trend but a bit more mobile.  But for me that's more about the type of team you have and balance you want to strike.