Project Rebrand Continues

[whatmichaelsays]

47 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

OK things are a lot different at the moment and will be for the foreseeable future, but some clubs in the very recent past haven't done enough to promote their home games and just expect people to turn up without giving their local community details of when they are playing, who they are playing and kick off times and admission prices. It's not rocket science, but you would think it was the way some clubs act or don't act,

It goes much bigger than that to be honest. Clubs and the sport can't simply advertise their way out of these problems and it's important not to confuse advertising with marketing in this context. 

It's wrong, for instance, to pay too much attention to attendance figures as a measure of how things are working, given that channels like TV and digital are arguably much more important. Yes, getting someone into the ground might put £20 in the till, but if we believe the reports about the new TV deal, not adapting the sport to the needs of TV audiences and finding ways to add value to broadcasters looks set to cost the game about £20m.

[The Future is League]

16 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

It goes much bigger than that to be honest. Clubs and the sport can't simply advertise their way out of these problems and it's important not to confuse advertising with marketing in this context. 

It's wrong, for instance, to pay too much attention to attendance figures as a measure of how things are working, given that channels like TV and digital are arguably much more important. Yes, getting someone into the ground might put £20 in the till, but if we believe the reports about the new TV deal, not adapting the sport to the needs of TV audiences and finding ways to add value to broadcasters looks set to cost the game about £20m.

I didn't say it was the panacea the game wanted, just one of them in my opinion or i hope i didn't indicate that, but it was just a one measure and will all know others are required.

"From little acorns might oaks do grow" and "Look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves"

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, whatmichaelsays said:

It goes much bigger than that to be honest. Clubs and the sport can't simply advertise their way out of these problems and it's important not to confuse advertising with marketing in this context. 

It's wrong, for instance, to pay too much attention to attendance figures as a measure of how things are working, given that channels like TV and digital are arguably much more important. Yes, getting someone into the ground might put £20 in the till, but if we believe the reports about the new TV deal, not adapting the sport to the needs of TV audiences and finding ways to add value to broadcasters looks set to cost the game about £20m.

No reason you can't do both , and the first does enhance the second 

[whatmichaelsays]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

No reason you can't do both , and the first does enhance the second 

That's my point, but it's frustrating to see these reductionist arguments that say "well if X didn't directly cause Y within this arbitrary time frame, then it's a waste of time". 

[bobbruce]

On 18/01/2021 at 13:10, Gooleboy said:

Here's a logo to go with your thoughts.

I like that can you knock some T-shirt’s out. 

[fighting irish]

8 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

That's my point, but it's frustrating to see these reductionist arguments that say "well if X didn't directly cause Y within this arbitrary time frame, then it's a waste of time". 

I wanted to get in here and refer to a comment you made on the last page, about often being asked why you don't offer your services on a commission basis.

I certainly suggested something like that, to you and I can't recall anyone else suggesting something similar but I don't read everything here.

I do agree that there is a stultifying ''short termism'' in the game which has held us back all along.

I'd like to explain, that my comments about you offering your services was not an example of short termism but (I thought) a reasonable way of getting your foot in the door with some of these clubs.

If I was a club owner and was approached by you, I'd be inclined to ask (wouldn't you) what I'm going to get for my money. There are so many self proclaimed guru's in here, who claim expertise and are quick to criticise without ever having to demonstrate their prowess in the real world (and live or die by their performances) but I'm sure, any club owner would be willing to listen to your proposal, which might promise the earth (and I've met a lot of people who promise more than they can deliver)  but surely he's entitled to ask, how will we measure your performance?

How can I judge, that this ''investment'' was actually worth spending?

Having some experience in direct marketing, I know that one of the ways direct marketers overcome buyer reluctance is by adopting risk-reversal. Simply put, this promises that if you're not happy with the product, you don't have to pay for it.

Now coming back to your comment quoted above, I'm suspicious of your criticism (not because I think its entirely invalid) of the games decision makers, that ''...if X doesn't directly cause Y .....then its a waste of time''.

My suspicion is aroused because, you seem to want to sell something, (your services), which has no definite, objectively defined measurable outcome.

I suspect that may be why, none of your approaches to clubs has had a positive response.

Isn't it reasonable for a club owner to ask, If you can't offer an objectively defined, measurable outcome, why should we use you and not some other false prophet?

All I was suggesting was that you come up with a way of defining your outcomes and delaying the collection of your fee, until the club owner has the money in the bank. It's just a form of delayed gratification. If you believe you can make a difference, you have nothing to fear. 

[Gooleboy]

2 hours ago, bobbruce said:

I like that can you knock some T-shirt’s out. 

Sorry Bob, I had all on getting the logo on, never mind manufacturing T Shirts!

[Tommygilf]

2 hours ago, fighting irish said:

I wanted to get in here and refer to a comment you made on the last page, about often being asked why you don't offer your services on a commission basis.

I certainly suggested something like that, to you and I can't recall anyone else suggesting something similar but I don't read everything here.

I do agree that there is a stultifying ''short termism'' in the game which has held us back all along.

I'd like to explain, that my comments about you offering your services was not an example of short termism but (I thought) a reasonable way of getting your foot in the door with some of these clubs.

If I was a club owner and was approached by you, I'd be inclined to ask (wouldn't you) what I'm going to get for my money. There are so many self proclaimed guru's in here, who claim expertise and are quick to criticise without ever having to demonstrate their prowess in the real world (and live or die by their performances) but I'm sure, any club owner would be willing to listen to your proposal, which might promise the earth (and I've met a lot of people who promise more than they can deliver)  but surely he's entitled to ask, how will we measure your performance?

How can I judge, that this ''investment'' was actually worth spending?

Having some experience in direct marketing, I know that one of the ways direct marketers overcome buyer reluctance is by adopting risk-reversal. Simply put, this promises that if you're not happy with the product, you don't have to pay for it.

Now coming back to your comment quoted above, I'm suspicious of your criticism (not because I think its entirely invalid) of the games decision makers, that ''...if X doesn't directly cause Y .....then its a waste of time''.

My suspicion is aroused because, you seem to want to sell something, (your services), which has no definite, objectively defined measurable outcome.

I suspect that may be why, none of your approaches to clubs has had a positive response.

Isn't it reasonable for a club owner to ask, If you can't offer an objectively defined, measurable outcome, why should we use you and not some other false prophet?

All I was suggesting was that you come up with a way of defining your outcomes and delaying the collection of your fee, until the club owner has the money in the bank. It's just a form of delayed gratification. If you believe you can make a difference, you have nothing to fear. 

I think the main problem is that most clubs (with the awful "sustainability" mantra) only run by one measurement, the profit margin.

When that is paired as a relatively small sum of profits with a lack of imagination, you can see why clubs are having to be told by Sky to look at their digital presence. 

I think equally that it is a poor measurement for this, especially in the short term which is in itself totally inappropriate and symptomatic of the situation we are in. Its like trying to measure mass in centimetres or maybe if I'm being less harsh, using a 30cm ruler to measure a mile. 

In a lot of cases it can be a reality that standing still is going backwards - see the crowd averages at Wigan and Leeds over the past decade. Advertisement, marketing and enhancing the value of your product is a continual process in any business. Moreover, in the entertainment sector, which Super League is entirely within, building hype and excitement is as important (if not more so) than the actual event product itself - and is something that we continually seem to undervalue.

With all due respect, if your outcomes are "not going backwards", "arresting decline" and especially "long term growth", no one in their right mind would withhold their fee.