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53 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Exactly, it can go one of two ways. Either the squad rallies to send the coach off on a high or, knowing that the coach is powerless over next years recruitment and squad selection, players who already have issues with him switch off entirely.

You tend to get the former only when the coach is well liked, successful, and crucially the players have had no involvement in his leaving.

So it either works out, or it doesn't work out? Hardly sounds like a phenomenon :kolobok_biggrin: 

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It’s a long way from home and after the past year or so, can you blame him for wanting to be somewhere more familiar with some more familiar faces around? Will be interesting to see whether he la

Correct, Plus the fact that he had a brilliant squad to work with.   We just want to be entertained, so now that the shackles are off maybe we'll have a good season with the ridiculously good tal

Would love to see Lee Briers given a chance but it’ll probably be an NRL assistant coach.

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

So it either works out, or it doesn't work out? Hardly sounds like a phenomenon :kolobok_biggrin: 

Works for certain preconditioned reasons that it is debatable whether Price has.

The key worry right now if you're a senior-ish player with a contract for next season who doesn't particularly like Price or his coaching methods (and you're probably not alone given that hypothesis), said player(s) can paralyse the club into forcing the coach out. I don't know whether the decision to go public with this was Price's or the Board's, but generally I'd have waited until midway through the season whereby for better or worse it hadn't had chance to affect the mentality of the team.

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53 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

It is a moot point that the squad is that good.  I mean it is good, but is is as good as you and others claim it is?

Where is the production line of young talent tbat Wigan and Saints seem to have.  When did Wigan or Saints parachute in highly expensive Aussie half backs that were clearly not a good fit?  

Price may or may not be a good, bad or indifferent coach, but you cannot ignore the way players or lack of them have been brought into the team. 

I don't have any ideas of the Wire squad being world beating, but I do recognise that the first team is packed with a lot of high quality players who have proven their ability, and a fair amount of money has been spent on transfers to bring in talent. But I am ok with losing, that is what sport is, I don't take winning for granted and have no sense of entitlement around the team.

I do, however, expect to be entertained. Having watched Wire for 30-odd years, this is the most tactically inept team I have seen, and this includes seeing teams coached by Steve Anderson and David Plange. Their teams were poor and scraping the barrel for talent. Ultimately Steve Price has an RL philosophy that I find really boring - that is his prerogative, and the club's prerogative to hire him and have a team playing like that. But I don't have to be happy with that and choose how interested I'll be in watching them accordingly.

I think the evidence is there that the team has talent, in the last few years they have made finals, won crucial semi finals etc. but they have also had long periods where performances have been dire. 

On the point about youth - I agree to an extent, but the only winning model isn't just being Wigan or Saints. If it is, we are in trouble, as that can't just be replicated through a simple lift and shift.

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1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I personally don't see why a player wouldn't still want to develop their skills, earn new contracts, win matches, win trophies just because a coach only has 1 year left on his contract.

I just don't buy your first line at all. And I say that as somebody who thinks that Price absolutely is a lame duck, but that is nowt to do with him leaving at the end of the year.

It could go either way, time will tell. All depends upon the strength of bonding within the whole squad. That is those players not chosen whom think they should be potentially rocking the boat by causing disharmony.

If the quad is currently well bonded then no issue will surface, if currently not so bonded then easy for disharmony yo bubble.

No point in arguing one way or the other...

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4 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Works for certain preconditioned reasons that it is debatable whether Price has.

The key worry right now if you're a senior-ish player with a contract for next season who doesn't particularly like Price or his coaching methods (and you're probably not alone given that hypothesis), said player(s) can paralyse the club into forcing the coach out. I don't know whether the decision to go public with this was Price's or the Board's, but generally I'd have waited until midway through the season whereby for better or worse it hadn't had chance to affect the mentality of the team.

Maybe, but that makes the assumption that Price is unpopular with players which appears to have come from nowehere to create this hypothesis.

But in the above, why would they need to force him out? He is going, I expect most would recognise that turmoil during a season isn't going to end well for players.

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

On the point about youth - I agree to an extent, but the only winning model isn't just being Wigan or Saints. If it is, we are in trouble, as that can't just be replicated through a simple lift and shift.

Being involved with local rugby league in Warrington, it increasingly frustrating listening to the Directors of the club say every year they want more local lads in the system, but continually sign from afar and spend money on transfers.  

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1 minute ago, redjonn said:

It could go either way, time will tell. All depends upon the strength of bonding within the whole squad. That is those players not chosen whom think they should be potentially rocking the boat by causing disharmony.

If the quad is currently well bonded then no issue will surface, if currently not so bonded then easy for disharmony yo bubble.

No point in arguing one way or the other...

Indeed.

However again, in the above scenarios, if the squad has issues behind the scenes - that would still be the case with Price on a three year deal.

We'll see how it goes, but I have no issues with the approach of announcing this now.

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4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Maybe, but that makes the assumption that Price is unpopular with players which appears to have come from nowehere to create this hypothesis.

But in the above, why would they need to force him out? He is going, I expect most would recognise that turmoil during a season isn't going to end well for players.

I mean you said it yourself, the squad is better than the results and the buck stops with the coach. It doesn't have to be more complicated than that for senior and well paid players to start having words with the Board over a coach who in long term value offers nothing to the club.

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4 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Being involved with local rugby league in Warrington, it increasingly frustrating listening to the Directors of the club say every year they want more local lads in the system, but continually sign from afar and spend money on transfers.  

Do they put much effort into the town clubs Spidey? I haven't lived there for a while and wouldn't know tbh.

I see no reason for anyone to be frustrated by signings from elsewhere, I think it is an issue if we aren't supporting the pipeline of local development, but it is a slightly different issue.

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Just now, Tommygilf said:

I mean you said it yourself, the squad is better than the results and the buck stops with the coach. It doesn't have to be more complicated than that for senior and well paid players to start having words with the Board over a coach who in long term value offers nothing to the club.

Simply as a spectator I have never questioned the effort of the team - which is the first sign of a club that is unhappy. I have witnessed a negative conservative rugby philosophy that has seen us lose rugby games that we shouldn't have.

I have no reason to believe that Steve Price is unpopular with players, but I don't know any of them. He seems pretty popular and a good guy.

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Indeed.

However again, in the above scenarios, if the squad has issues behind the scenes - that would still be the case with Price on a three year deal.

We'll see how it goes, but I have no issues with the approach of announcing this now.

well my missus is happy he's going, nowt to do with his tactics or selections, just that she thinks he comes across as a miserable and bit of a whining ######... she gets a little angry whenever he pops up on TV...

RL supporters likes and dislikes come in all forms...

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1 minute ago, redjonn said:

well my missus is happy he's going, nowt to do with his tactics or selections, just that she thinks he comes across as a miserable and bit of a whining ######... she gets a little angry whenever he pops up on TV...

RL supporters likes and dislikes come in all forms...

Aye, I've been pretty vocal in my belief that Price is not the right person for Warrington.

I agree about his TV persona too, and I thought he made himself look silly last year when making a big deal about players not being able to hug each other to celebrate during a pandemic.

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10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Aye, I've been pretty vocal in my belief that Price is not the right person for Warrington.

I agree about his TV persona too, and I thought he made himself look silly last year when making a big deal about players not being able to hug each other to celebrate during a pandemic.

well its probably because it wasn't Tony Smith anymore...

we went into the stands just before the warm-ups, most of the seats accordingly empty,   but we had tickets saying which seats to sit,  but Tony Smith sitting their to watch warm-ups,  I said to the missus to just sit anywhere for now, but nope she says... but it says these seats...

Tony Smith with a grin moves among a few seats, and we sit down... he spends the whole 10/15minschatting with us, at one point the missus says oh sorry we are stopping you watching the warm-up of his players,  he says no bother I've done all I can and its up to the players from now on...

Ever since she's been a big fan of Tony Smith and hence nobody will ever be as good as him at Warrington...

(to add - whenever we went again or saw him at other grounds he always said hello and chatted... )

as I say fans decisions are based on all sorts of things...

 

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8 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Simply as a spectator I have never questioned the effort of the team - which is the first sign of a club that is unhappy. I have witnessed a negative conservative rugby philosophy that has seen us lose rugby games that we shouldn't have.

I have no reason to believe that Steve Price is unpopular with players, but I don't know any of them. He seems pretty popular and a good guy.

That's fair enough - but again this was for a coach whose position and commitment for/from the club was secure.

I think the point originally made was that knowing a coach is going isn't going to be there beyond next season is inherently unsettling. If the dour tactics continue and the games are lost the players and fans and unsupportive club staff members have the perfect ammunition to get rid of him sooner - which is why it tends to be a decision kept under wraps. Its why you see so many people in so many walks of life put on gardening leave till their contract runs out.

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1 minute ago, redjonn said:

well its probably because it wasn't Tony Smith anymore...

we went into the stands just before the warm-ups, most of the seats accordingly empty,   but we had tickets saying which seats to sit,  but Tony Smith sitting their to watch warm-ups,  I said to the missus to just sit anywhere for now, but nope she says... but it says these seats...

Tony Smith with a grin moves among a few seats, and we sit down... he spends the whole 10/15minschatting with us, at one point the missus says oh sorry we are stopping you watching the warm-up of his players,  he says no bother I've done all I can and its up to the players from now on...

Ever since she's been a big fan of Tony Smith and hence nobody will ever be as good as him at Warrington...

as I say fans decisions are based on all sorts of things...

It sounds like we'd get on! Huge fan of Tony Smith (although interestingly plenty didn't like the way he came across on TV either).

And we had some shocking seasons under Smith, but the one thing I always had was hope, I enjoyed the exciting philosophy and was happy to take the high number of errors that came with that. I was also a fan of Cullen's philosophy on that, but he had many more limitations as a coach.

I'm not a 'win under any circumstances' kind of person, RL is a hobby, a form of entertainment, I don't think we should ever lose sight of that.

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It sounds like we'd get on! Huge fan of Tony Smith (although interestingly plenty didn't like the way he came across on TV either).

And we had some shocking seasons under Smith, but the one thing I always had was hope, I enjoyed the exciting philosophy and was happy to take the high number of errors that came with that. I was also a fan of Cullen's philosophy on that, but he had many more limitations as a coach.

I'm not a 'win under any circumstances' kind of person, RL is a hobby, a form of entertainment, I don't think we should ever lose sight of that.

agreed, the only thing I never could agree with was the "charging down" approach as it more often than not worked against Warrington.. but it added drama

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5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

That's fair enough - but again this was for a coach whose position and commitment for/from the club was secure.

I think the point originally made was that knowing a coach is going isn't going to be there beyond next season is inherently unsettling. If the dour tactics continue and the games are lost the players and fans and unsupportive club staff members have the perfect ammunition to get rid of him sooner - which is why it tends to be a decision kept under wraps. Its why you see so many people in so many walks of life put on gardening leave till their contract runs out.

Like we say, we'll see - but I don't see why it being announced during the season makes a huge issue versus this approach. I also expect that players knew about Holbrook and Wane leaving in advance of it being announced, plus with the speculation they had hanging over them that is also unsettling (the reason Wire have said they have announced it).

In reality there are hundreds of factors that affect a season, I personally don't think this is a big issue. It is claimed there are all sorts of examples of this having an adverse affect, but none forthcoming on the thread.

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15 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Like we say, we'll see - but I don't see why it being announced during the season makes a huge issue versus this approach. I also expect that players knew about Holbrook and Wane leaving in advance of it being announced, plus with the speculation they had hanging over them that is also unsettling (the reason Wire have said they have announced it).

In reality there are hundreds of factors that affect a season, I personally don't think this is a big issue. It is claimed there are all sorts of examples of this having an adverse affect, but none forthcoming on the thread.

From a Wire perspective you'd hope it doesn't have too detrimental an impact for sure, a good way to ensure that would be a transition to a coach in the club already like Briers.

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I have no axe to grind with Pricey, he has been a successful coach during his time at Wire, yet it is the lack of a grand final victory which defines the terms in which he is judged. This and the seemingly clueless attacking strategies displayed by a team absolutely bursting with attacking talent! This raises the question of whether a coach tries to redevelop a team to play the way he believes will win games, or, coaches a team in a way that recognises and exploits their talents in the best manner? I sometimes wonder if Price falls somewhere in between.

Anyway, I wish him good fortune over the course of the forthcoming season and fully understand his families desire to return home.

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Price will be remembered as the coach of the team when we secured probably our best Wembley win and as someone who had us consistently competing at the top. He can go home with his head held high.

However, with the players at his disposal the team has simply not excited enough or consistently shown the resilience needed to win lots of trophies. The decline of our attack into five drives and a cross field kick isn't just a moan about excitement; it means we don't score enough points to put games to bed and it regularly haunts us. In last year's season, where most teams were decimated, we stayed pretty healthy and still dropped out feebly. That was a turning point for me, and we need to find someone else to have a go. For me we should also let Briers go and have a change of scenery too.

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I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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2 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

The logic is in most team sports the coach or manager who declares they are stopping is usually considered a lame duck.

This affects the motivation of players and I believe even the coach himself.

There are countless examples of it in other sports where it hasn’t worked.

The best example was fergie at Man U. The season he declared he was going the team massively under achieved he then changed his mind and won the league the following season. Now if can happen to him with his standing in the game and at the club it can happen to anyone. 

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3 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

And clubs have also fallen off a cliff knowing their manager/coach is going at the end of the season.

 

Then those clubs obviously didn’t have the right players in place.

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59 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

The best example was fergie at Man U. The season he declared he was going the team massively under achieved he then changed his mind and won the league the following season. Now if can happen to him with his standing in the game and at the club it can happen to anyone. 

We finished third & reached the Champions League semi’s,so hardly dropping of a cliff.
The sudden departure of Stam and the likes of Cole/Yorke/Irwin being fading forces had as much if not more of an impact than Fergie announcing he was retiring.

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1 hour ago, bobbruce said:

The best example was fergie at Man U. The season he declared he was going the team massively under achieved he then changed his mind and won the league the following season. Now if can happen to him with his standing in the game and at the club it can happen to anyone. 

 

10 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

We finished third & reached the Champions League semi’s,so hardly dropping of a cliff.
The sudden departure of Stam and the likes of Cole/Yorke/Irwin being fading forces had as much if not more of an impact than Fergie announcing he was retiring.

What years are we talking about here? Wiki is proving a touch difficult on this and my memory ain't what it used to be! 

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