Should the Women's RL forum be merged with this?

[Oxford]

The point is not the selling themselves but where they appear on here. Is this a forum that values all the areas of RL equally. Do we need to file everything but SL under "can't be bothered" or do we feel it deserves our support and some prominence in forums and such like. 

Sometimes the replies on here contain more distractions than 10 Downing Street!

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, Oxford said:

The point is not the selling themselves but where they appear on here. Is this a forum that values all the areas of RL equally. Do we need to file everything but SL under "can't be bothered" or do we feel it deserves our support and some prominence in forums and such like. 

Sometimes the replies on here contain more disratctions than 10 Downing Street!

All areas of RL are not valued equally , and they never will be , and probably shouldn't be , all sports are the same 

[fighting irish]

2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

All areas of RL are not valued equally , and they never will be , and probably shouldn't be , all sports are the same 

By who?

[Oxford]

2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

All areas of RL are not valued equally , and they never will be , and probably shouldn't be , all sports are the same 

What an admission!

[GUBRATS]

2 hours ago, fighting irish said:

By who?

Popular opinion ( attendances ) , media , sponsors , basically everybody , which sport has equal coverage from top to bottom ? , Why don't the woman's games happen at the same stadiums in front of similar numbers to the men's game ? 

[fighting irish]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

Popular opinion ( attendances ) , media , sponsors , basically everybody , which sport has equal coverage from top to bottom ? , Why don't the woman's games happen at the same stadiums in front of similar numbers to the men's game ? 

I don't know why women's games don't happen in the same stadia, in front of similar numbers.

One possible explanation is that they've only be going two f......king minutes.

Another reason is hardly anybody knows about it yet.

Then there's always the possibility of archaic and anachronistic, misogynistic prejudice creeping in and stifling the development of the women's game, by denying them the oxygen they need to survive and prosper.

Why do you think?

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, fighting irish said:

I don't know why women's games don't happen in the same stadia, in front of similar numbers.

One possible explanation is that they've only be going two f......king minutes.

Another reason is hardly anybody knows about it yet.

Then there's always the possibility of archaic and anachronistic, misogynistic prejudice creeping in and stifling the development of the women's game, by denying them the oxygen they need to survive and prosper.

Why do you think?

I think a lot of it isn't very good and not that many people are interested in watching it 

[fighting irish]

3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I think a lot of it isn't very good and not that many people are interested in watching it 

Did you read the whole post you've responded to, or just the last sentence?

I'd suggest you read it again.

[GUBRATS]

14 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

Did you read the whole post you've responded to, or just the last sentence?

I'd suggest you read it again.

In your first line you asked a question , despite not having a question mark at the end 

I've answered your first line and your last 

[RigbyLuger]

23 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I don't know why women's games don't happen in the same stadia, in front of similar numbers.

One possible explanation is that they've only be going two f......king minutes.

Another reason is hardly anybody knows about it yet.

Then there's always the possibility of archaic and anachronistic, misogynistic prejudice creeping in and stifling the development of the women's game, by denying them the oxygen they need to survive and prosper.

Why do you think?

The growth of coverage of women's sport, whether the interest is there or not, means there's massive potential in, say Leeds vs. Wigan that isn't there for a League One game, regardless of the "quality" of them.

[GUBRATS]

7 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

The growth of coverage of women's sport, whether the interest is there or not, means there's massive potential in, say Leeds vs. Wigan that isn't there for a League One game, regardless of the "quality" of them.

If you say so , personally most women's sport is boring 

[fighting irish]

4 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

In your first line you asked a question , despite not having a question mark at the end 

I've answered your first line and your last 

My first line wasn't a question, I was merely saying I don't know why.........

I then offered three possible explanations, the first two are obviously contributory factors to all but the most one-eyed hypocritical misogynists.

The last suggested, possible explanation, is the most likely reason you don't value the women's game, (which is why you didn't mention it in your last post).

Then I asked you a question and your answer to that question, confirms what I just said (above) and is a poorly disguised attempt to justify denying the oxygen of exposure they need to fuel the growth of the women's game.

 

[Robin Evans]

3 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

My first line wasn't a question, I was merely saying I don't know why.........

I then offered three possible explanations, the first two are obviously contributory factors to all but the most one-eyed hypocritical misogynists.

The last suggested, possible explanation, is the most likely reason you don't value the women's game, (which is why you didn't mention it in your last post).

Then I asked you a question and your answer to that question, confirms what I just said (above) and is a poorly disguised attempt to justify denying the oxygen of exposure they need to fuel the growth of the women's game.

 

Are you sure? Cos that's not what I'm reading.

If someone finds a sport, any sport, boring then that's how it is for that person. I don't see any attempt at marginalising or denying anywhere.

Include all women's RL on here for me. Wheelchair RL and LDRL can come on here too. I will then have options to click and read or keep scrolling. Don't see an issue

[fighting irish]

6 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Are you sure? Cos that's not what I'm reading.

If someone finds a sport, any sport, boring then that's how it is for that person. I don't see any attempt at marginalising or denying anywhere.

Include all women's RL on here for me. Wheelchair RL and LDRL can come on here too. I will then have options to click and read or keep scrolling. Don't see an issue

Well of course, you're entitled to your opinion, as is Gubrats.

You seem to be in agreement.

But in case you're not reading what I read, try opening the other eye. 

[Robin Evans]

1 minute ago, fighting irish said:

Well of course, you're entitled to your opinion, as is Gubrats.

You seem to be in agreement.

But in case you're not reading what I read, try opening the other eye. 

You're making a baseless judgement there. Steve's comments are his views on the sport. 

I've repeatedly stated that I would include all aspects of RL on here. I'm an inclusive sort.

And then, as I pretty much do already, I can view which posts I want to read.

I think you might be looking for an argument that isn't there

[GUBRATS]

17 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

My first line wasn't a question, I was merely saying I don't know why.........

I then offered three possible explanations, the first two are obviously contributory factors to all but the most one-eyed hypocritical misogynists.

The last suggested, possible explanation, is the most likely reason you don't value the women's game, (which is why you didn't mention it in your last post).

Then I asked you a question and your answer to that question, confirms what I just said (above) and is a poorly disguised attempt to justify denying the oxygen of exposure they need to fuel the growth of the women's game.

 

And I told you why they don't play in their big stadiums in front of massive crowds , Manchester United Ladies play at and are based at the LSV , they don't play at Old Trafford because they only get a couple of thousand watching , even with free ticketing , the women's football is a cash loser for the pro clubs , but they feel obliged to run teams to be seen to be ' PC ' , I have watched the odd game , it's poor , similarly with RL , in fact even more so with RL as its physicality just doesn't work , all IMO , as long as I am still allowed one 

I won't comment further on this 

[Oxford]

12 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

.......  but they feel obliged to run teams to be seen to be ' PC ' , I have watched the odd game , it's poor , similarly with RL , in fact even more so with RL as its physicality just doesn't work , all IMO , as long as I am still allowed one 

I won't comment further on this 

I think you're right there that's ample!

[Oxford]

I have to say that I now know how Alice felt during the croquet game or maybe  a bit more like the flamingo.

[fighting irish]

11 hours ago, Robin Evans said:

You're making a baseless judgement there. Steve's comments are his views on the sport. 

I've repeatedly stated that I would include all aspects of RL on here. I'm an inclusive sort.

And then, as I pretty much do already, I can view which posts I want to read.

I think you might be looking for an argument that isn't there

I don't know Robin, if you've read every post in the exchange between Gubrats and I but I'd say you've missed some of the early ones.

Anyway, I didn't say you were not the inclusive sort, it seemed to me, (at first, at least) that you didn't read into his comments what I did, so I was merely suggesting you have another look (with both eyes open). To see if you could see what I saw.

In response to your accusation that my judgement is baseless, let me clarify my own position somewhat?

I know that people will have preferences as to which games they watch. That is everyone's right. Men's, Women's, Wheelchair, or PDRL. Now, let's say, as Gubby insists, that the women's game never achieves parity with the men's game in terms of participation, or spectator numbers. An unshakeable conviction, I might add, based on his experience of just a few years of the existence of the women's game.

My reply to him is, so what?

For the people who decide to watch and play Women's RL it's just as important as his precious Leigh, is to him.

The fact that there are more people watching men play is irrelevant.

Rugby League doesn't belong to men and certainly not to Gubrats. His opinion that Women's RL (and women's sport in general) is boring, is just that, and only that, it's his opinion and doesn't count for toffee, with fans of Women's RL, who love the game and don't care what he thinks.

His belief, that all Women's sport is boring is incontrovertible evidence of his misogyny.

It's not just that he doesn't like it, he's stating that it is absolutely, objectively boring and the fact that other people, (women) enjoy it doesn't matter (to him). In other words their opinion doesn't count.

He's stating that he's right and no-one else's views are as important as his own. He never qualifies his assertions with ....in my opinion, or .....as far as I'm concerned....etc. His opinions are proffered as natural laws, self evident and undeniable, neglecting all evidence to the contrary and showing complete disregard for female RL enthusiasts. 

This ''attitude'' about the rights and opinions of women as being of limited value and the natural, corollaries of the proliferation of that attitude, is what spawned the Me-Too movement. 

[Robin Evans]

28 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I don't know Robin, if you've read every post in the exchange between Gubrats and I but I'd say you've missed some of the early ones.

Anyway, I didn't say you were not the inclusive sort, it seemed to me, (at first, at least) that you didn't read into his comments what I did, so I was merely suggesting you have another look (with both eyes open). To see if you could see what I saw.

In response to your accusation that my judgement is baseless, let me clarify my own position somewhat?

I know that people will have preferences as to which games they watch. That is everyone's right. Men's, Women's, Wheelchair, or PDRL. Now, let's say, as Gubby insists, that the women's game never achieves parity with the men's game in terms of participation, or spectator numbers. An unshakeable conviction, I might add, based on his experience of just a few years of the existence of the women's game.

My reply to him, is so what?

For the people who decide to watch and play Women's RL it's just as important as his precious Leigh, is to him.

The fact that there are more people watching men play is irrelevant.

Rugby League doesn't belong to men and certainly not to Gubrats. His opinion that Women's RL (and women's sport in general) is boring, is just that, and only that, it's his opinion and doesn't count for toffee, with fans of Women's RL, who love the game and don't care what he thinks.

His belief, that all Women's sport is boring is incontrovertible evidence of his misogyny.

It's not just that he doesn't like it, he's stating that it is absolutely, objectively boring and the fact that other people, (women) enjoy it doesn't matter (to him). In other words their opinion doesn't count.

He's stating that he's right and no-one else's views are as important as his own. He never qualifies his assertions with ....in my opinion, or .....as far as I'm concerned....etc. His opinions are proffered as natural laws, self evident and undeniable, neglecting all evidence to the contrary and showing complete disregard for female RL enthusiasts. 

This ''attitude'' about the rights and opinions of women as being of limited value and the natural, corollaries of the proliferation of that attitude, is what spawned the Me-Too movement. 

If that's how you have interpreted Steve's comments .... thats fair enough.

Let's say for the sake of Sunday night, and that I want an early(ish) one and i couldn't be ar sed with line of duty..... that I haven't read anything like what you have into Steve's comments.

[GUBRATS]

36 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I don't know Robin, if you've read every post in the exchange between Gubrats and I but I'd say you've missed some of the early ones.

Anyway, I didn't say you were not the inclusive sort, it seemed to me, (at first, at least) that you didn't read into his comments what I did, so I was merely suggesting you have another look (with both eyes open). To see if you could see what I saw.

In response to your accusation that my judgement is baseless, let me clarify my own position somewhat?

I know that people will have preferences as to which games they watch. That is everyone's right. Men's, Women's, Wheelchair, or PDRL. Now, let's say, as Gubby insists, that the women's game never achieves parity with the men's game in terms of participation, or spectator numbers. An unshakeable conviction, I might add, based on his experience of just a few years of the existence of the women's game.

My reply to him, is so what?

For the people who decide to watch and play Women's RL it's just as important as his precious Leigh, is to him.

The fact that there are more people watching men play is irrelevant.

Rugby League doesn't belong to men and certainly not to Gubrats. His opinion that Women's RL (and women's sport in general) is boring, is just that, and only that, it's his opinion and doesn't count for toffee, with fans of Women's RL, who love the game and don't care what he thinks.

His belief, that all Women's sport is boring is incontrovertible evidence of his misogyny.

It's not just that he doesn't like it, he's stating that it is absolutely, objectively boring and the fact that other people, (women) enjoy it doesn't matter (to him). In other words their opinion doesn't count.

He's stating that he's right and no-one else's views are as important as his own. He never qualifies his assertions with ....in my opinion, or .....as far as I'm concerned....etc. His opinions are proffered as natural laws, self evident and undeniable, neglecting all evidence to the contrary and showing complete disregard for female RL enthusiasts. 

This ''attitude'' about the rights and opinions of women as being of limited value and the natural, corollaries of the proliferation of that attitude, is what spawned the Me-Too movement. 

Nowhere have I stated that women shouldn't play any sport , the question was the amount of attention it should be given , to me the attention it should receive should be relative to the interest that it earns , just like any other part of any sport , no more or no less 

[meast]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

And I told you why they don't play in their big stadiums in front of massive crowds , Manchester United Ladies play at and are based at the LSV , they don't play at Old Trafford because they only get a couple of thousand watching , even with free ticketing , the women's football is a cash loser for the pro clubs , but they feel obliged to run teams to be seen to be ' PC ' , I have watched the odd game , it's poor , similarly with RL , in fact even more so with RL as its physicality just doesn't work , all IMO , as long as I am still allowed one 

I won't comment further on this 

Or maybe they feel obliged to run teams because women enjoy playing the game, because despite not having tens of thousands of people interested they have a devoted fanbase, participants and volunteers that get great pleasure out of something they enjoy.

Be it professional or amateur rugby league, rugby union, grassroots football, men's or women's, does it matter if people enjoy it?

And let's be honest, mens professional rugby league doesn't have many people watching it either in reality, so what's the reasoning behind that?

Personally, I like watching players of all ages, sexes, abilities giving their all, as our young ladies showed this afternoon,despite being beaten by s far stronger, more powerful and skillful side, they never gave in and showed great effort and spirit, if you find that boring then fair enough, but others enjoy it.

[gingerjon]

7 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Nowhere have I stated that women shouldn't play any sport , the question was the amount of attention it should be given , to me the attention it should receive should be relative to the interest that it earns , just like any other part of any sport , no more or no less 

There's currently, at most, one game, largely unadvertised, being shown per week, on a nondescript channel, on Twitch.

It's hard to see how that's overdoing it.

[Oxford]

8 hours ago, meast said:

Personally, I like watching players of all ages, sexes, abilities giving their all .......

I once heard someone say a good reader is someone who if they were lost on a desert island would use bus tickets for entertainment, to me it's much the same with TGG. You'll grab anything that even smells of the greatest game. Otherwise you belong somewhere else, doing something else that actually makes you happy. If you find a bit of it lacking, what are you comparing it with and why?