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Are you worried about attendances?


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6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Refusing to accept context doesn't mean that there is none. 

 

2 minutes ago, Scubby said:

All other sports have had context though too. However, if we are the only ones using this excuse in a few months time then it is no longer contextual - it is the sport.

I think this is the reason for the worry for me imo.

I'm willing to accept the context as an explanation now, but I worry that it is indicative of where we are potentially headed. The 15 months out of the grind, closer to 24 months at the start of next season, could be a defining moment for the sport if the crowds don't recover quickly.

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1 minute ago, Chrispmartha said:

Of course it's contextual, our season started with no crowds, restricted crowds then no restrictions but cancelled games due to covid.

Even in a few months time all that has to be factored into the attendances, take Season Tickets for example, there was obviously going to be a drop in sales when people didn't have a clue how many games they would be able to attend or when, pay per game tickets, not knowing whether the game will actually go ahead will obviously affect walk ups.

You can't just say well look football is getting good attendances so the Sport of RL is all wrong, it's far too much of a simplistic view.

 

As Ive stated this is not a head burying exercise, we have to do more to get crowds in but just dismissing the huge impact the Covid situation has had on the sport could just eat to making rash decisions about the sport and trying to fix things that aren't broken - despite what is said on here the game is still highly entertaining and we still have some of the best athletes in any sport taking the field every week.

I am not dismissing it. I am saying that RL's attitude appeared to be that the fans would just roll back with minimal effort. They even banged full price £50 Wembley tickets out to fans thinking they would easily sell out - they didn't.

People have got out of the habit and the game needs to find the resources to make it exciting to come to RL games again. Poor Covid management and games cancelled left right and centre is not helping either - fans are out of the loop. Other sports are not experiencing this level of cancellations. I follow the game and completely forgot there were SL fixtures on last night.

There's a lot of work to do and crowds are suffering because of what is going on at the moment. Some of it, however, is the game's own doing.

 

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Just now, Scubby said:

I am not dismissing it. I am saying that RL's attitude appeared to be that the fans would just roll back with minimal effort.

 

I don't know if that's true across the board of all RL clubs, I think most would have realised it wouldn't be back to normal crowds until at least next year.

You've also got to remember the other financial impacts of Covid, how many staff will still be on furlough. maybe those staff are part of the marketing teams, maybe those staff have been made redundant, how many sponsors pulled the money, marketing and pushing the games costs money and time.

There are a whole load of issues for the sport to come out of this pandemic in a healthy state.

Of course some of it is the games doing, Im not sure the games being called of is the games fault though, they are following the protocols set by the government and we simply do not have the funds to create bubbles and things like that.

We are simply at a int where we need to try and finish this season as credibly as possible and have a real push for the start of next season.

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4 minutes ago, Scubby said:

All other sports have had context though too. However, if we are the only ones using this excuse in a few months time then it is no longer contextual - it is the sport.

All sports are different - have their different audiences and setup.

RL season tickets make up a large proportion of our customer base. These are sold between September and January in the main. This sales window was absolutely obliterated, with a reluctance to buy tickets that could prove to be worthless for a 2nd season. People were comfortable supporting their club once, to ask them to fund season tickets 2 years running was clearly too much. This has led to a situation where we have a far smaller season ticket base than normal.

We know that Rugby League does not do well on a cash basis - and trying to sell tickets for individual matches on random days, with 50/50 chance of cancellation is challenging.

On the flip side - Football has just staged a series of hugely positive test events at the Euros, and will be kicking off their season with a real buzz around it as they can enjoy unrestricted crowds and a growing vaccinated population. 

If Leeds get 9.1k v Wire next year, or Hull get 7k v Saints - when we have had a full pre-season sales window and are playing in regular slots wihout cancellation, then I will come back and hold my hands up and say you were right, but it is crystal clear why the crowds are lower. 

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23 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I am not dismissing it. I am saying that RL's attitude appeared to be that the fans would just roll back with minimal effort. They even banged full price £50 Wembley tickets out to fans thinking they would easily sell out - they didn't.

A move that I was a lone voice being critical of Scubby. Everyone here said it was very fair pricing, and it was celebrated.

But I suspect a rewriting of history and it will be used as a tool to bash the RFL.

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

A move that I was a lone voice being critical of Scubby. Everyone here said it was very fair pricing, and it was celebrated.

But I suspect a rewriting of history and it will be used as a tool to bash the RFL.

It got 40,000 attendance.

I thought that wasn't bad at all, considering.

And wasn't worth going full budget option just get another 5,000 through the door.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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6 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It got 40,000 attendance.

I thought that wasn't bad at all, considering.

And wasn't worth going full budget option just get another 5,000 through the door.

You know my thoughts on the pricing point, but it is interesting that it is being used here to bash the RFL when I was pretty much on my own in that thread.

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

You know my thoughts on the pricing point, but it is interesting that it is being used here to bash the RFL when I was pretty much on my own in that thread.

People being fickle is not news.

But you are allowed one (one) moment of smug satisfaction.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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36 minutes ago, Dave T said:

A move that I was a lone voice being critical of Scubby. Everyone here said it was very fair pricing, and it was celebrated.

But I suspect a rewriting of history and it will be used as a tool to bash the RFL.

Not everyone.

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27 minutes ago, Dave T said:

You know my thoughts on the pricing point, but it is interesting that it is being used here to bash the RFL when I was pretty much on my own in that thread.

Everyone to pretty much now 😄 

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49 minutes ago, Dave T said:

We know that Rugby League does not do well on a cash basis - and trying to sell tickets for individual matches on random days

This particular point really needs addressing to be honest. The game needs to get better at encouraging casual viewership and attendance, not just relying on the inertia of season ticket holders. 

We live in an era where you can basically 'unbundle' a lot of the stuff you buy today (your TV subscription, your mobile phone, your package holiday, etc) I think it's a mistake for clubs to rely on inertia of season tickets to effectively sell games that people might not necessarily be interested in - especially when you consider that, unlike football, tickets aren't exactly difficult to get if you aren't a season ticket holder or member. 

People are more selective at what they buy and I think RL needs to get better at reflecting that. If that means building up an audience or introducing a product that encourages more casual audiences alongside season ticket holders, rather than encouraging season ticket holders to downgrade, then that might be the direction the sport needs to go in. 

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Attendances are the temperature of the game: shows how healthy it is. Levels of attendance are linked to the wider state of the game plus local factors. 

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1 hour ago, Mumby Magic said:

What our stand at the end of the ground?

That only holds 600 and leaves us with those open empty terraces. I´d like a 3 k seated stand for Press, media, conference and hospitality on the halfway line side. Bring the dead space down and get it SL ready but again, that´s never going to happen without 3-4 million quid which we will never have... 

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1 hour ago, Dave T said:

But they are not really configuration issues, they are too big for the teams. 

But I'd argue there are few better sights and atmospheres than a large crowd in Wigan's ground. 

Yep, Wigan vs Saints always looks great or internationals spot on but my point is it still looks naff on telly when half empty. It´s a concern that some of our best supported clubs have so few games that look good on the tv for sky... 

When wigan were averaging 14-15 not a problem but now it´s down to 10-11k average (including Saints game) it´s a worry. 

 

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

I'd be surprised if you and I were in agreement on that thread 🤣

I think it was one I couldn't be arsed to chip in on tbh. But did (reluctantly) thought you made good points on this.

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19 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

That only holds 600 and leaves us with those open empty terraces. I´d like a 3 k seated stand for Press, media, conference and hospitality on the halfway line side. Bring the dead space down and get it SL ready but again, that´s never going to happen without 3-4 million quid which we will never have... 

You meaning the ex coral stand?

Like poor jokes? Thejoketeller@mullymessiah

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41 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

This particular point really needs addressing to be honest. The game needs to get better at encouraging casual viewership and attendance, not just relying on the inertia of season ticket holders. 

We live in an era where you can basically 'unbundle' a lot of the stuff you buy today (your TV subscription, your mobile phone, your package holiday, etc) I think it's a mistake for clubs to rely on inertia of season tickets to effectively sell games that people might not necessarily be interested in - especially when you consider that, unlike football, tickets aren't exactly difficult to get if you aren't a season ticket holder or member. 

People are more selective at what they buy and I think RL needs to get better at reflecting that. If that means building up an audience or introducing a product that encourages more casual audiences alongside season ticket holders, rather than encouraging season ticket holders to downgrade, then that might be the direction the sport needs to go in. 

I don't disagree, diversity is key, but we also live in a world that subscription models are normal. Netflix etc gives you entertainment for a regular monthly payment, as does your gym, xbox live, etc. 

We are part way there with DD's for season tickets, but we are still a bit different. 

Why wouldn't £25 a month give you all inclusive access to your club, videos, matches - whatever you want, you are a member, it's yours. We can go 100% that model which means we don't focus on PPV cash purchases. 

But you are right, we also need to have a cash buyers at the moment, we have a bit of a traditional model that maybe has had its time. 

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2 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I think it was one I couldn't be arsed to chip in on tbh. But did (reluctantly) thought you made good points on this.

<screen grabbed for future use>

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11 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Have we ever had a 3000 seated stand opposite our only main seated stand, that end. 

Think I'm with you. What I'm saying is doesn't the South Bank cover corporate. Opposite the main stand we had about 150 not covered seats in the late 80s for speedway.

 

Like poor jokes? Thejoketeller@mullymessiah

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1 minute ago, Mumby Magic said:

Think I'm with you. What I'm saying is doesn't the South Bank cover corporate. Opposite the main stand we had about 150 not covered seats in the late 80s for speedway.

 

It does but my point is that it´s a very small area and it´s at the end of the ground, so not set up for media. Plus the halfway line stand needs redeveloping to lower the capacity and just sort out the ground. It´s never going to happen though sadly. 

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