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Serious Question: Do some of you even like Rugby League?


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2 hours ago, Tubby said:

personally, pessimistic though it is, I think demise more likely than growth. Recent history suggests it.

The era when the game's demise may have been possible was when people were restricted from playing the sport on fear of penalty from another code.

That era has now passed and choice will allow for opportunities to grow.

The game will remain a big fish in a relatively small pond in Australia and in New Zealand and the Pacific Islands it will feed off the NRL.

In the UK we will remain bogged down in petty politics between clubs, authorities and governing bodies and continue to fail to fulfill its potential despite events like the World Cup presenting the game in a great light.

But the key is that the choice and opportunity means that the game is played in more countries and by more people than ever before.  These nascent leagues will get the chance to flourish as people realise what a great game it is to play and watch.

The game has a brighter future than past.  It is just that it will happen away from us as we continue in the same manner we have for the last 125 years.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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3 hours ago, DEANO said:

Best game in the world for me. Just run by buffoons 

Since 1895 according to some.

Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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2 hours ago, marklaspalmas said:

Anybody who doesn't share my opinions doesn't like RL and doesn't have the sport's best interests at heart.

This is exactly it. 

Other than trolls, I don't know anyone who doesn't like the sport and doesn't want it to do well. We all just disagree how we go about that. 

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2 hours ago, Futtocks said:

That's not the mentality that (I think) the OP was addressing. Your outlook is very different from the almost ghoulish glee that some appear to feel every time there's bad news to eagerly wallow in or good news to scoff at and dismiss.

As for how the game is run, the clubs have always held the whip hand over the game as a whole. The original RWC was won by an odd hodge-podge of a GB selection, because many clubs were unwilling to release their star players.

I don't think that's fair, I think people often just use that argument to shoot down people who have ended up right in their prediction. 

 

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29 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

The era when the game's demise may have been possible was when people were restricted from playing the sport on fear of penalty from another code.

That era has now passed and choice will allow for opportunities to grow.

The game will remain a big fish in a relatively small pond in Australia and in New Zealand and the Pacific Islands it will feed off the NRL.

In the UK we will remain bogged down in petty politics between clubs, authorities and governing bodies and continue to fail to fulfill its potential despite events like the World Cup presenting the game in a great light.

But the key is that the choice and opportunity means that the game is played in more countries and by more people than ever before.  These nascent leagues will get the chance to flourish as people realise what a great game it is to play and watch.

The game has a brighter future than past.  It is just that it will happen away from us as we continue in the same manner we have for the last 125 years.

I think that's an overly pessimistic assessment of the UK game and ignores the politics of sport governing bodies and members all over the world. This isn't unique to UK RL at all, and even some of the younger RL nations are having political issues. 

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7 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think that's an overly pessimistic assessment of the UK game and ignores the politics of sport governing bodies and members all over the world. This isn't unique to UK RL at all, and even some of the younger RL nations are having political issues. 

As soon as I see something that resembles a strategic plan and subsequent commitment for the game that doesn't ensure that the clubs look after themselves then I will change my mind.

Edited by Dunbar
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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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Double post

Edited by Dunbar

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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1 minute ago, Dunbar said:

As soon as I see something that resembles a strategic plan and subsequent commitment for the game that doesn't ensure that the biggest clubs look after themselves then I will change my mind.

To be fair, we have had various plans even just over the last 15 years and they are not all necessarily plans to strengthen the top 6.

1. Licensing period. Many many people want that and believe it is the right thing to do. 

2. Abandoning licensing - would appear to favour lower clubs. 

3. Low salary cap - prevents the bigger clubs pulling away from the likes of Salford. 

4. Super 8s - all about integration of lower teams in SL. 

5. Funding structure of the previous tv deal - huge amounts going outside of top clubs. 

6. Equal share of SL money (unlike Premier League and other major leagues). 

There is an argument that the top clubs should weild more power like they do in many other sports. That's not for me, I prefer a more equal split, but I dont think the biggest criticism of the game is around the top clubs controlling it. 

Again, I think it is that there is a lack of agreement and a strong leader is needed. Like Richard Lewis. 

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2 hours ago, Futtocks said:

... the almost ghoulish glee that some appear to feel every time there's bad news to eagerly wallow in or good news to scoff at and dismiss...

A careful count will reveal that there are five or six such posters on this forum, and perhaps twice that number who wish to display their superiority as fans by expressing the maximum amount of positivity. All annoying, but easily passed by.

Most of the rest of us are passionate enough about the game to want to keep up with developments, and share thoughts and news and discuss varied aspects of Rugby League. Amongst these, some are worried that their favourite game in the world is not looking as good as it should do. And some of these have had decades of deep involvement in the game: think of them as whistleblowers, they may have a point.

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10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

To be fair, we have had various plans even just over the last 15 years and they are not all necessarily plans to strengthen the top 6.

1. Licensing period. Many many people want that and believe it is the right thing to do. 

2. Abandoning licensing - would appear to favour lower clubs. 

3. Low salary cap - prevents the bigger clubs pulling away from the likes of Salford. 

4. Super 8s - all about integration of lower teams in SL. 

5. Funding structure of the previous tv deal - huge amounts going outside of top clubs. 

6. Equal share of SL money (unlike Premier League and other major leagues). 

There is an argument that the top clubs should weild more power like they do in many other sports. That's not for me, I prefer a more equal split, but I dont think the biggest criticism of the game is around the top clubs controlling it. 

Again, I think it is that there is a lack of agreement and a strong leader is needed. Like Richard Lewis. 

These are all fine but they don't move the dial in any significant way.

If my initial post was overly negative about the British game then I will hold my hand up... what I am essentially saying is that the shape of the game here will not significantly change in the next 20, 30 or even 50 years (I do think protectionism is a big part of this) but the game has the chance to thrive in new countries. 

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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11 minutes ago, Cerulean said:

A careful count will reveal that there are five or six such posters on this forum, and perhaps twice that number who wish to display their superiority as fans by expressing the maximum amount of positivity. All annoying, but easily passed by.

Most of the rest of us are passionate enough about the game to want to keep up with developments, and share thoughts and news and discuss varied aspects of Rugby League. Amongst these, some are worried that their favourite game in the world is not looking as good as it should do. And some of these have had decades of deep involvement in the game: think of them as whistleblowers, they may have a point.

What about the vast majority of people, who don't want to get caught up in the politics of the sport or endlessly compare today with the past but just enjoy the game?

I enjoyed the England-France game yesterday. But to others it was apparently a sign that we were cabbaged and would never beat the Aussies.

If you are a casual RL fan, you could easily be put off by this endless complaining and, yes, moaning. 

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4 hours ago, The Daddy said:

Do you even want Rugby League to do well? Do you want the sport exposed to millions of people with a vibrant grass roots section?

 

They're Northerners. If you gave them a sack of free money they'd complain t'sack were't wrong colour.

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25 minutes ago, D9000 said:

They're Northerners. If you gave them a sack of free money they'd complain t'sack were't wrong colour.

All sacks are the same colour up ‘ere. 

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29 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

What about the vast majority of people, who don't want to get caught up in the politics of the sport or endlessly compare today with the past but just enjoy the game?

I enjoyed the England-France game yesterday. But to others it was apparently a sign that we were cabbaged and would never beat the Aussies.

If you are a casual RL fan, you could easily be put off by this endless complaining and, yes, moaning. 

I don’t disagree with you, some will talk the game down consistently, but even through optimism specs, that wasn’t a good game. But it also wasn’t the best England team we can put out by any means. 

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3 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

 

It would be a very boring world if everyone thought the same.

 

thats what i thought 

did the bloke who invented the phrase "one hit wonder" invent anything else?

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7 minutes ago, Tubby said:

I don’t disagree with you, some will talk the game down consistently, but even through optimism specs, that wasn’t a good game. But it also wasn’t the best England team we can put out by any means. 

This is my point though. People might have watched that game and never seen RL before. They might just have enjoyed it without reference to anything else.

But if they wanted to dig further and investigate more about the game, they might find it was actually rubbish, despite what they thought. Not everyone has to fully understand the game to enjoy it and they don't need to know (or care) that it wasn't the best 26 players on the planet. 

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2 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

This is my point though. People might have watched that game and never seen RL before. They might just have enjoyed it without reference to anything else.

But if they wanted to dig further and investigate more about the game, they might find it was actually rubbish, despite what they thought. Not everyone has to fully understand the game to enjoy it and they don't need to know (or care) that it wasn't the best 26 players on the planet. 

Fair enough, but are you saying we shouldn’t put on a forum that we thought it was a poor game, in case a new potential fan reads it and thinks ‘oh, I won’t bother then’?

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Just now, Tubby said:

Fair enough, but are you saying we shouldn’t put on a forum that we thought it was a poor game, in case a new potential fan reads it and thinks ‘oh, I won’t bother then’?

Not at all. But you're talking about one incident in isolation.

What I'm talking about is the constant 'it's rubbish/not as good as it used to be/look after the local clubs/Aussies will murder us' etc etc. It's like a dripping tap and I believe, permeates every level of the game.

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Just now, Johnoco said:

Not at all. But you're talking about one incident in isolation.

What I'm talking about is the constant 'it's rubbish/not as good as it used to be/look after the local clubs/Aussies will murder us' etc etc. It's like a dripping tap and I believe, permeates every level of the game.

That, I agree with unequivocally. As I say, there are always people at both extremes, but any of us who question the likelihood of unhindered expansion, simply due to the population of an abstract geographical area (for example), or suggest the England team aren’t up to snuff, are tarred with the Luddite/fervent traditionalist/RL-hater brush. 
 

There are two sides to every discussion and to dismiss one side without consideration is disingenuous at the very least. 

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Yes they like the game, but they like their club more and they want their club to maintain or improve its stature within the game.  Like all the clubs theirs is a small, poor club in a small, poor game — compared to other sports in Britain, RL certainly is small and poor — their club will only ever maintain or improve its stature within the game if the game stays small and poor, because their club will never be able to access the sort of money it will need to compete if that changes.  That's why they're against the likes of London, Toronto and Newcastle being in the top tier and why they lamented London getting into SL it started instead of tiny Keighley.

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3 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Yes they like the game, but they like their club more and they want their club to maintain or improve its stature within the game.  Like all the clubs theirs is a small, poor club in a small, poor game — compared to other sports in Britain, RL certainly is small and poor — their club will only ever maintain or improve its stature within the game if the game stays small and poor, because their club will never be able to access the sort of money it will need to compete if that changes.  That's why they're against the likes of London, Toronto and Newcastle being in the top tier and why they lamented London getting into SL it started instead of tiny Keighley.

I’d suggest most posters are happy for anyone to be in SL, provided they earn it on the field. It’s a bit purist, I know, and in this day and age, possibly a bit naive, but many of us believe that sporting success on the field is how you earn a seat at the top table. 
 

I also think success of the game will bring success for the existing clubs with it. It doesn’t have to be them an’ us. 
 

But that’s not what this thread is about and we’ve had that discussion a thousand times. Never the Twain…

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