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Will the encouraging signs lead to increased attendances?


Scubby
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4 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

The stadium isn't the point of discussion , did all the stuff they did ( much of which many clubs cannot do even if they wanted to do ) repay them with a profit ? , If it did they were stupid to stop , if it didn't , well ?

Their average crowd in 1997 was 9,000 higher than in the last full traditional season, 1994-95, or put another way almost three times as big.  Are you serious when you suggest that the things Peter Deakin initiated didn't repay them with a profit?

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10 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Leyth 

So is the atmosphere better at the HJ when it's Widnes,Saints,Wigan or Cas,Wakey or Huddersfield ? 

Absolutely the former, but so what?  Grow the game to get more £s in, if you’re basing your financial survival on an extra £10,000 or so a year via team A bringing a few hundred more fans then team B once a year then the business model is flawed.  It’s total small time thinking to depend on away fans for survival…..

 

Grow the game or die guys…

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21 hours ago, Dave T said:

Every match is an event. It takes a few hours of people's precious time and their money. 

That doesn't mean every event needs a band, singer etc. but they do all need to be staged well, have good catering, facilities and be presented well. 

Gubrats has a point in that the match is the core entertainment, but that match needs to be staged well. 

yep, think we are saying the same thing but different words.

as i say depends upon definition of event....

Edited by redjonn
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3 hours ago, Dallas Mead said:

Absolutely the former, but so what?  Grow the game to get more £s in, if you’re basing your financial survival on an extra £10,000 or so a year via team A bringing a few hundred more fans then team B once a year then the business model is flawed.  It’s total small time thinking to depend on away fans for survival…..

 

Grow the game or die guys…

Nobody ever depends on away fans for survival, so people should stop saying it. 

The point is though that we should be very careful about recklessly throwing away rivalries that have been built up over decades that contribute to the atmosphere and finances. 

If Wire had 13 games like those against Catalans at home, that wouldn't be a draw and we do need to make sure that any shifts are done in a considered way. 

We have plenty of space for expansion thankfully, so it is a long way off becoming an issue, but if we sleepwalk into a 10 team league that includes Catalans, Toulouse, London, York and Newcastle then you risk losing some of the real positive elements of RL's top flight. 

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15 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Nobody is saying it, people should stop saying they are. 

Plenty do on the comments of social media posts tbf. It was rife when Toronto were around and I saw quite a lot when talking about Toulouse, Catalans etc. last season

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20 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Or it wasn't paying off and they were losing money on it , nobody only the owners/board at the time know 

Nobody on here knows for certain 

You seem fixated on the idea that they stopped doing it because it wasn't working.

Budgets and philosophies change with different owners and different situations. Bulls suddenly had a rather large chunk of money disappear after the Harris fiasco, and it was quite evident were quickly how that affected their business on and off the field. They went from World Champions in 06 to never making the playoffs again in 08 and relegated in 14.

They no longer had the capital to put on the events as they were prioritising it in other areas of the business. Philosophies change when situations change. Hindsight tells us they got a lot wrong.

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23 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Criteria ?

The idea of there needing to be away fans to make a game interesting.

You yourself have just mentioned about (or were clearly implying) the atmosphere at local games being better than those involving non-local teams.

Do I think games with away fans have a better chance of a good atmosphere? Yes, of course. Do I think games against local sides that bring in more away fans also bring in more home fans? Not always, no. 

If we want to encourage more away fans, clubs need to work together to get them to travel. 

But the idea of their "needing" to be away fans anchors us to a certain geographic radius, which then cancels out the benefits that these away fans are meant to bring in by reducing potential in other income streams such as TV revenue and sponsorship.

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8 hours ago, Dallas Mead said:

Absolutely the former, but so what?  Grow the game to get more £s in, if you’re basing your financial survival on an extra £10,000 or so a year via team A bringing a few hundred more fans then team B once a year then the business model is flawed.  It’s total small time thinking to depend on away fans for survival…..

 

Grow the game or die guys…

Reread my post on the subject , which is a better atmosphere ? Which game at the HJ feels more like an event ? , Widnes or Huddersfield ?

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3 hours ago, Dave T said:

Nobody ever depends on away fans for survival, so people should stop saying it. 

The point is though that we should be very careful about recklessly throwing away rivalries that have been built up over decades that contribute to the atmosphere and finances. 

If Wire had 13 games like those against Catalans at home, that wouldn't be a draw and we do need to make sure that any shifts are done in a considered way. 

We have plenty of space for expansion thankfully, so it is a long way off becoming an issue, but if we sleepwalk into a 10 team league that includes Catalans, Toulouse, London, York and Newcastle then you risk losing some of the real positive elements of RL's top flight. 

Bingo 

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3 hours ago, Dallas Mead said:

They really should stop saying it, that’s kind of my point!

I haven't said anybody ' depends ' on them , but they do help to create a better at atmosphere , which makes the game more of an event , having a vocal ( as an away fan you tend to ' work ' harder vocally ) away following quite often galvanises the home support 

 

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2 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

So what you're saying is loop fixtures are the answer...

How you can come to that conclusion god only knows 

No , but maybe the home clubs could incentivise helping more away fans to attend their games , primarily the ones further afield that don't normally bring very many 

Something I suggested to the Leigh board about 12/13 years ago which actually worked , and because it was a split gate in the end recouped the cost 

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2 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

The idea of there needing to be away fans to make a game interesting.

You yourself have just mentioned about (or were clearly implying) the atmosphere at local games being better than those involving non-local teams.

Do I think games with away fans have a better chance of a good atmosphere? Yes, of course. Do I think games against local sides that bring in more away fans also bring in more home fans? Not always, no. 

If we want to encourage more away fans, clubs need to work together to get them to travel. 

But the idea of their "needing" to be away fans anchors us to a certain geographic radius, which then cancels out the benefits that these away fans are meant to bring in by reducing potential in other income streams such as TV revenue and sponsorship.

The idea that a few fireworks , dancers , go carts and full size Bejeweled Elephants is making a game more interesting ? 

Seriously 😕

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4 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

How you can come to that conclusion god only knows

I was being facetious, but having a small number of local clubs that would bring away fans grouped together would solve your issue but require loop fixtures...

7 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

No , but maybe the home clubs could incentivise helping more away fans to attend their games , primarily the ones further afield that don't normally bring very many 

Something I suggested to the Leigh board about 12/13 years ago which actually worked , and because it was a split gate in the end recouped the cost 

I'm all for initiatives like this. I don't doubt it would enhance the game day experience, I just think it's not the big issue it's often made out to be though, certainly not compared to other far bigger issues.

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6 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

The idea that a few fireworks , dancers , go carts and full size Bejeweled Elephants is making a game more interesting ? 

Seriously 😕

You're speaking as a die hard fan of many decades.

You're not thinking from the perspective of a child or teen in this day and age, nor an uninitiated adult who didn't grow up on the terraces watching or park field playing. There needs to be more of a hook than just the game (a game which they won't fully understand to appreciate the way you or I do).

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4 hours ago, Dave T said:

Nobody ever depends on away fans for survival, so people should stop saying it. 

The point is though that we should be very careful about recklessly throwing away rivalries that have been built up over decades that contribute to the atmosphere and finances. 

If Wire had 13 games like those against Catalans at home, that wouldn't be a draw and we do need to make sure that any shifts are done in a considered way. 

We have plenty of space for expansion thankfully, so it is a long way off becoming an issue, but if we sleepwalk into a 10 team league that includes Catalans, Toulouse, London, York and Newcastle then you risk losing some of the real positive elements of RL's top flight. 

Fully agree Dave

If we could somehow get to a 16-team top division with all of those teams in, then it would be different.

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