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Thurs 17th March : SL : Wigan Warriors v Castleford Tigers KO. 8:00pm SKY


Who will win?  

40 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will win?

    • Wigan Warriors
      35
    • Castleford Tigers
      5


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9 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Perhaps I didn't explain myself properly, my opinion is that refs on televised games are seemingly afraid to make any decisions as Kendall did last night in not backing himself to award Griffin's try when stood 3 feet away, and in general play it looks to me as though they are working to instruction, when given the freedom of not being in view of the 'all seeing eye' that is the television cameras they officiate the game differently.

Thanks for clarifying. I suppose the big difference here is that we aren't watching super slow mo replays of everything. When a ref gives stealing in a non-TV game fans just either accept it or groan, but either way we play on and it's gone in just a few seconds. Same with a yellow card to an extent, no replays and less of a fuss. 

So I'm not sure it is necessarily that games are reffed differently (apart from the obvious - the presence of a VR), and more that the games are viewed differently. 

I expect James Child calls what he sees irrespective of whether there is one camera pointed at him or 12.

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7 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Don’t forget he was carded for the ‘late’ hit.

But if that is the case, this is where the system is weighted against the ‘offending’ player.  Punished for one offence but then after looking at it on video, punish for another.

Yes, that could be seen as the case, but I suppose we could look at another extreme example of that. Say a ref blew up for interference and then on the replays the VR called a gouge that the ref had missed, we wouldn't ignore that (I don't think, but could be wrong on protocol) so we wpild still expect the ref to then act on the more serious offence. Maybe the same as a fight, where the VR will give more evidence and more may come to light. 

I suppose it is a question of how accurate we want to try and get on the field versus how much we are prepared to leave to the judiciary and get on with it. My personal view is that I'm OK with the ref and VR reviewing, as I hated the on-report system which I saw as a cop out. 

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5 hours ago, Dave T said:

It's also not his job to slag the game off, but he is. 

And for many players it will be part of their job to promote the game. 

You’re allowed to do things that aren’t your job. 
He’s far from the only player saying the same thing. I’ll take their opinion over that  of a dozen or so fans of the game who think sanitisation of the contact is inevitable. 

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5 minutes ago, Tubby said:

You’re allowed to do things that aren’t your job. 
He’s far from the only player saying the same thing. I’ll take their opinion over that  of a dozen or so fans of the game who think sanitisation of the contact is inevitable. 

Some players think it's fine to take banned substances. Do you listen to them? 

Some think it's fine to finger a players ass. Is theirs a good opinion? 

Some love the biff. Some want to be able to shoulder charge players in the head like the good old days. 

Somebody being good at playing Rugby doesn't mean their opinions will be right. 

And of course players can do things not in their job. But talking about a competition and criticising a sport they are actively involved in is directly linked to their job. 

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Some players think it's fine to take banned substances. Do you listen to them? 

Some think it's fine to finger a players ass. Is theirs a good opinion? 

Some love the biff. Some want to be able to shoulder charge players in the head like the good old days. 

Somebody being good at playing Rugby doesn't mean their opinions will be right. 

And of course players can do things not in their job. But talking about a competition and criticising a sport they are actively involved in is directly linked to their job. 

You can’t compare these illegal (not only on the pitch) actions with agreeing with maintaining the physicality of the game. Nobody has suggested such a stupid stance. Your fatuous arguments often take this tack and quite frankly, it’s not worth discussing a sensible subject if that’s your first ‘shot’. 
 

Somebody who plays automatically has more right to comment than someone who watches, whether you like it or not. 

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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yes, that could be seen as the case, but I suppose we could look at another extreme example of that. Say a ref blew up for interference and then on the replays the VR called a gouge that the ref had missed, we wouldn't ignore that (I don't think, but could be wrong on protocol) so we wpild still expect the ref to then act on the more serious offence. Maybe the same as a fight, where the VR will give more evidence and more may come to light. 

I suppose it is a question of how accurate we want to try and get on the field versus how much we are prepared to leave to the judiciary and get on with it. My personal view is that I'm OK with the ref and VR reviewing, as I hated the on-report system which I saw as a cop out. 

I’m against head high tackling and anything else that comes into it - knees to the head when a player is down, ‘axe’ type tackle across the neck etc.  Refs have enough to do but there will be errors -from both sides.  I think we have to live with these and accept it.  
We cannot achieve perfect. 
 

Tbh I’ve given up thinking of all the variables on this.  

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Tubby said:


 

Somebody who plays automatically has more right to comment than someone who watches, whether you like it or not. 

They really don’t.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

They really don’t.

I’m happy to disagree. If you believe your opinion is more valid than someone who plays the game week in and week out. 

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1 minute ago, Tubby said:

I’m happy to disagree. If you believe your opinion is more valid than someone who plays the game week in and week out. 

I don’t necessarily think my opinion is the right one - I just don’t think that any player’s is automatically more valid on every topic.

But, to put an alternative view forward, rugby league, as a professional sport, needs people watching. The players are highly unlikely to have watched a game as a genuine spectator in years. 

 

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I don’t necessarily think my opinion is the right one - I just don’t think that any player’s is automatically more valid on every topic.

But, to put an alternative view forward, rugby league, as a professional sport, needs people watching. The players are highly unlikely to have watched a game as a genuine spectator in years. 

 

Absolute nonsense, I’ve seen lots of professional players watching another team when their game was at a different time.  Sweeping statement though it is, pretty much every player will be more informed about the intricacies of the game than pretty much every (non-playing) supporter. 
 

if you believe fans are better informed than players, that is an opinion to which you’re entitled. Personally, I think it’s a ridiculous position. 

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11 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I don’t necessarily think my opinion is the right one - I just don’t think that any player’s is automatically more valid on every topic.

But, to put an alternative view forward, rugby league, as a professional sport, needs people watching. The players are highly unlikely to have watched a game as a genuine spectator in years. 

 

Of course, not on every topic, I wouldn’t necessarily seek their opinion on marketing, or the structure of the game. But as for how the game is played and officiated, I’d listen to players before fans. 

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4 hours ago, Dunbar said:

The number of social media messages from players slagging off the sport that they play is utterly depressing.

Would help if they knew the rules they're moaning about, like Lilley having a go when Williams was sent to the bin for his side being persistently offside.

John Bateman was having a whinge earlier. Did he tweet saying how Luke Gale made a stupid decision going studs up on Jonny Lomax, or does only criticise officials? Bit hypnotical that.

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5 minutes ago, Tubby said:

But as for how the game is played and officiated, I’d listen to players before fans. 

Why?

It's in their interests for rules not to be enforced and no changes be made.

And that's before you get to the obvious point about how many of them do actually know all the rules they're talking about.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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1 hour ago, Tubby said:

You can’t compare these illegal (not only on the pitch) actions with agreeing with maintaining the physicality of the game. Nobody has suggested such a stupid stance. Your fatuous arguments often take this tack and quite frankly, it’s not worth discussing a sensible subject if that’s your first ‘shot’. 
 

Somebody who plays automatically has more right to comment than someone who watches, whether you like it or not. 

But do they? 

What is the hierarchy? Are customers more important? Or owners? Or broadcasters? Or sponsors! 

Everyone has the right to spout their view, everyone has the right to challenge those views. But let's not make out that a pkayers' view will be any more credible. 

That's the point of my post. Just because you are a player, it doesn't mean I have to respect your view. Because as has been seen plenty of times, players can be dumb. As can fans, as can sponsors, as can owners, and so on. 

Just judge views on their merits. 

I think Burgess' view that the game has gone to shi*** is dumb. 

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Just now, Dave T said:

But do they? 

What is the hierarchy? Are customers more important? Or owners? Or broadcasters? Or sponsors! 

Everyone has the right to spout their view, everyone has the right to challenge those views. But let's not make out that a pkayers' view will be any more credible. 

That's the point of my post. Just because you are a player, it doesn't mean I have to respect your view. Because as has been seen plenty of times, players can be dumb. As can fans, as can sponsors, as can owners, and so on. 

Just judge views on their merits. 

I think Burgess' view that the game has gone to shi*** is dumb. 

You don’t think a professional rugby player’s view on how the game is played and officiated is of more value than that of a fan?

I think once again, we will never agree. 

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1 hour ago, Lowdesert said:

I’m against head high tackling and anything else that comes into it - knees to the head when a player is down, ‘axe’ type tackle across the neck etc.  Refs have enough to do but there will be errors -from both sides.  I think we have to live with these and accept it.  
We cannot achieve perfect. 
 

Tbh I’ve given up thinking of all the variables on this.  

 

 

 

I tend to agree. Id be happy if we had no video, or if we have videos at every match. I'm happy to go with whatever the refs see. 

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12 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Why?

It's in their interests for rules not to be enforced and no changes be made.

And that's before you get to the obvious point about how many of them do actually know all the rules they're talking about.

It’s in their interests for the rules not to be enforced??  Really?

Do you believe the players questioning the current ‘crackdown’ are advocating a free-for-all, with no punishment for high tackles?  Or is it possible they’re advocating allowing high-impact contact in which the game is built?

if you genuinely believe the former, then I can see why you’d think them stupid. I have a rather higher opinion of them. 

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instead of rampant sin binnings why don't we have players put on report and given points that accumulate to a ban better that way than ruining games every  week.

Through the fish-eyed lens of tear stained eyes
I can barely define the shape of this moment in time

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5 minutes ago, Tubby said:

It’s in their interests for the rules not to be enforced??  Really?

Yes, really. It absolutely makes their jobs easier. Hence the constant moaning - even before this season - about marginal penalties and refs not letting the game go.

Sports are a lot easier in general if you don't have to worry so much about the rules.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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10 minutes ago, Tubby said:

You don’t think a professional rugby player’s view on how the game is played and officiated is of more value than that of a fan?

I think once again, we will never agree. 

I'm not sure what hierarchy you are working to. Everyone can have a view. 

But the view coming from players and coaches so far is that they don't want change, which suggests to me that they are not the right people to ask how we deliver the change required. 

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1 minute ago, my missus said:

instead of rampant sin binnings why don't we have players put on report and given points that accumulate to a ban better that way than ruining games every  week.

Because then the complaint would be that the punishment comes too late and doesn't make a difference to a game in which the offence(s) occurred.

We've had that go-round before.

It was when refs were accused of having no bottle and using report as a cop out.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Just now, Dave T said:

I'm not sure what hierarchy you are working to. Everyone can have a view. 

But the view coming from players and coaches so far is that they don't want change, which suggests to me that they are not the right people to ask how we deliver the change required. 

From the players and coaches whose voices we hear.

Just cos they're shouting loudest doesn't make them representative of anything.

(They may be but it's not guaranteed).

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Just now, gingerjon said:

From the players and coaches whose voices we hear.

Just cos they're shouting loudest doesn't make them representative of anything.

(They may be but it's not guaranteed).

Yep, I think I made this same point about fans too. 

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1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

Because then the complaint would be that the punishment comes too late and doesn't make a difference to a game in which the offence(s) occurred.

We've had that go-round before.

It was when refs were accused of having no bottle and using report as a cop out.

but things have changed since then players are being pinged for next to nothing all the time now on report would be perfect now.

Through the fish-eyed lens of tear stained eyes
I can barely define the shape of this moment in time

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