Thurs 17th March : SL : Wigan Warriors v Castleford Tigers KO. 8:00pm SKY

[Dave T]

10 minutes ago, Kenilworth Tiger said:

Kendall clearly sent him to the sinbin as it was "late" - no mention whatsoever of head on head

Yep, I think there is a case for head-on-head, but he clearly bins him for a late hit. 

[JohnM]

More here on the risks of rugby. Still, the players know the risks, so that's alright then.

https://www.versobooks.com/books/1712-tackling-rugby

[Dave T]

People like this need to be careful. Keep pushing this narrative, turn fans off, lower crowds, you lose your job or wages go down. 

Players shouldn't be fuelling the "game has gone..." narrative. Of course he has the freedom to say these things, but he is effectively bagging his profession, which isn't wise. 

[Kenilworth Tiger]

1 minute ago, JohnM said:

A few died-in- the wool we-wuz-robbed myopic Cas followers on a little forum hardly constitutes the Universe....unless of course you have incontrovertible proof  that the entire Sky audience agrees with you.

Ah Yes, Chris Hill that myopic cas follower

 

Sure I heard somebody on the WIgan coaching team, Matty something, saying it was never a sin bin - how do you feel about having a myopic cas follower as your head coach?

[snapski]

4 hours ago, MZH said:

I think pretty much everyone is in agreement that the yellow card for Fonua was just not a yellow. There may have been some head on head contact, but I'm not even sure that there was, and if there was, it was accidental and not at all forceful. 

I'll be more concerned if the disciplinary decide to hand out a ban to go with it. If it was just down to over zealous refereeing then I'm ok with that. Mistakes happen and I would imagine the refs are under a lot of pressure right now to clamp down. However if they also hand him a ban they will effectively be saying that the game is heading in a direction that 99% of fans (and players) don't want to see it go in.

Summed up very well for me. Not been to a game this season, turned Huddersfield game off and didn't bother even watching last night. Everyone agrees players have a duty of care for each other. RL lawmakers always manage to shoot themselves in the foot.

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

People like this need to be careful. Keep pushing this narrative, turn fans off, lower crowds, you lose your job or wages go down. 

Players shouldn't be fuelling the "game has gone..." narrative. Of course he has the freedom to say these things, but he is effectively bagging his profession, which isn't wise. 

Not a good look is it.

I think it’s fine that players have their  say in fact id say it should be compulsory, however it needs to be done in a proper way and not on bloody twitter.

these new clampdowns and rubbish rules like 6 again are affecting the support of the game, after a really positive start to the season with lots of optimism all that seems to be talked about are the yellow cards and bans.

 

I totally understand the need to clamp down on dangerous and illegal plays like head high shots snd dangerous late tackles, I just feel the bslance is off at the moment 

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Not a good look is it.

I think it’s fine that players have their  say in fact id say it should be compulsory, however it needs to be done in a proper way and not on bloody twitter.

these new clampdowns and rubbish rules like 6 again are affecting the support of the game, after a really positive start to the season with lots of optimism all that seems to be talked about are the yellow cards and bans.

 

I totally understand the need to clamp down on dangerous and illegal plays like head high shots snd dangerous late tackles, I just feel the bslance is off at the moment 

I'm relatively comfortable with the clampdown, I think there is a bit of hysteria, but I think there have probably been 2 or 3 that have been really poor calls. I'm thinking a Catalans one and the one last night were really poor. 

We need to be careful not to blow this out of proportion, most of the binning and reds have been for pretty bad tackles, and I think they are here to stay, I do think we are talking a small handful, and we need to have some tweaks, but even binninga for genuine dangerous play is being dismissed as a farce. 

I do hope it settles into a decent middle ground. Last night's binning could be a trigger for a review. 

[del capo]

6 minutes ago, Kenilworth Tiger said:

Ah Yes, Chris Hill that myopic cas follower

 

Sure I heard somebody on the WIgan coaching team, Matty something, saying it was never a sin bin - how do you feel about having a myopic cas follower as your head coach?

Matty Peet wrong on that one.. Effectively saying that cards are only appropriate if the tackle is malicious. Really ?

Anyone remember all those years ago in a Wigan game  Hepworth breaking Tyrer's jaw at Wembley..........

Let's see what those twitter players have to say if their careers  ( and income ) are ruined  by unfair injury countenanced by a Governing Body - surely they won't be going to their lawyer/ agent/ Union to be looking for compensation ?

[Scubby]

Just now, Dave T said:

I'm relatively comfortable with the clampdown, I think there is a bit of hysteria, but I think there have probably been 2 or 3 that have been really poor calls. I'm thinking a Catalans one and the one last night were really poor. 

We need to be careful not to blow this out of proportion, most of the binning and reds have been for pretty bad tackles, and I think they are here to stay, I do think we are talking a small handful, and we need to have some tweaks, but even binninga for genuine dangerous play is being dismissed as a farce. 

I do hope it settles into a decent middle ground. Last night's binning could be a trigger for a review. 

Essentially the game is challenging habits such as hitting the passer as he releases the ball and recognising nearly all head contact as significant.

However, Rugby League is a reactive sport and we do need to be careful. Ball players are very savvy and how long before we see half backs and full backs dummying to pass to stop a defender in their tracks (who would normally complete the tackle). Also, dummy kick on the last play because the kick pressure eases.

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Not a good look is it.

I think it’s fine that players have their  say in fact id say it should be compulsory, however it needs to be done in a proper way and not on bloody twitter.

On this point specifically. Literally the only thing Burgess posted about this game was two tweets about that incident. 

Not a jot of promotion, not a bit about looking forward to the match, nothing about watching on Sky, nothing about a skilful bit of play.  Zero. But as soon as there is a bad ref call, straight on to tweet. 

I'm highlighting Burgess, but he's pretty standard, others do the same. 

[Jughead]

7 minutes ago, Dave T said:

People like this need to be careful. Keep pushing this narrative, turn fans off, lower crowds, you lose your job or wages go down. 

Players shouldn't be fuelling the "game has gone..." narrative. Of course he has the freedom to say these things, but he is effectively bagging his profession, which isn't wise. 

This is what I’m getting pretty sick of. The players are as bad as some sections of the fans and I struggle to support them when they’ve continually failed to organise some form of player’s association to attempt to help the game.

All of this isn’t a good look for the game. The dissent and lack of respect shown by players on social media is worrying. I sympathise with the officials, they’re doing what they’re told, in fact they’re being consistent, something many have requested for years. 

[Dave T]

Just now, Scubby said:

Essentially the game is challenging habits such as hitting the passer as he releases the ball and recognising nearly all head contact as significant.

However, Rugby League is a reactive sport and we do need to be careful. Ball players are very savvy and how long before we see half backs and full backs dummying to pass to stop a defender in their tracks (who would normally complete the tackle). Also, dummy kick on the last play because the kick pressure eases.

There is a good discussion to be had here on this, in that we have allowed ourselves to get into a place where players make tackles on players without the ball. It has always been seen as part of the game until recent years. In reality, off the ball hits should never have been part of the game. We do still see cynical late hits on passers and that is what we are challenging. 

I'm OK with your last para. Maybe that would be a positive outcome?

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Jughead said:

This is what I’m getting pretty sick of. The players are as bad as some sections of the fans and I struggle to support them when they’ve continually failed to organise some form of player’s association to attempt to help the game.

All of this isn’t a good look for the game. The dissent and lack of respect shown by players on social media is worrying. I sympathise with the officials, they’re doing what they’re told, in fact they’re being consistent, something many have requested for years. 

See my follow up post. If these players were balanced and also posted good stuff I think you can live with criticism, but if the only time you tweet it's to complain about refs, you should be challenged. 

[JonNgog]

Just now, Dave T said:

On this point specifically. Literally the only thing Burgess posted about this game was two tweets about that incident. 

Not a jot of promotion, not a bit about looking forward to the match, nothing about watching on Sky, nothing about a skilful bit of play.  Zero. But as soon as there is a bad ref call, straight on to tweet. 

I'm highlighting Burgess, but he's pretty standard, others do the same. 

It isn’t his job to be a singing and dancing cheerleader for rugby league. I’m absolutely no fan of ref bashing, but it’s fairly obvious that there is significant discontent amongst players (not just fans), and we risk turning a lot of people off our sport. I don’t see the purpose of papering over those cracks, the point needs to be made loud and clear so it can be sorted before this completely derails the season.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, JonNgog said:

It isn’t his job to be a singing and dancing cheerleader for rugby league. I’m absolutely no fan of ref bashing, but it’s fairly obvious that there is significant discontent amongst players (not just fans), and we risk turning a lot of people off our sport. I don’t see the purpose of papering over those cracks, the point needs to be made loud and clear so it can be sorted before this completely derails the season.

It's also not his job to slag the game off, but he is. 

And for many players it will be part of their job to promote the game. 

[JonNgog]

This reminds me of people that complain about protesters making too much racket and getting in the way. Sorry, but very little gets done without kicking up a fuss, and the players understand better than any of us how this threatens their profession. Time for a bit more solidarity and a bit less ‘why can’t they talk about nice things for a change’.

[Dave T]

Just now, JonNgog said:

This reminds me of people that complain about protesters making too much racket and getting in the way. Sorry, but very little gets done without kicking up a fuss, and the players understand better than any of us how this threatens their profession. Time for a bit more solidarity and a bit less ‘why can’t they talk about nice things for a change’.

No. I just disagree that the game has gone to s***. 

Leave it to the players and there would be no cards this year as everyone appears to have been met with criticism. 

[JohnM]

21 minutes ago, Kenilworth Tiger said:

Ah Yes, Chris Hill that myopic cas follower

 

Sure I heard somebody on the WIgan coaching team, Matty something, saying it was never a sin bin - how do you feel about having a myopic cas follower as your head coach?

I thought you said you were done?

in any case, there's an illicit contraposition fault in your logic. 

[JonNgog]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

No. I just disagree that the game has gone to s***. 

Leave it to the players and there would be no cards this year as everyone appears to have been met with criticism. 

It’s not how I would have made the point, but then again it affects him and his livelihood far more viscerally than me watching it on TV.

[Chrispmartha]

9 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It's also not his job to slag the game off, but he is. 

And for many players it will be part of their job to promote the game. 

Players have responsibility, they can’t just say whatever they like on SM just like regular employees

[Harry Stottle]

59 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yep, I think there is a case for head-on-head, but he clearly bins him for a late hit. 

You could probably find some fault or a penalty in 70 to 80% of all tackles if you want to put them under a microscope, is this what you want the game to come to that everything has to be scrutinised? 

[Just Browny]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

People like this need to be careful. Keep pushing this narrative, turn fans off, lower crowds, you lose your job or wages go down. 

Players shouldn't be fuelling the "game has gone..." narrative. Of course he has the freedom to say these things, but he is effectively bagging his profession, which isn't wise. 

Whether or not Burgess has a valid point, a registered player expressing it in that way gets into bringing the game into disrepute territory and needs reining in.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, JohnM said:

More here on the risks of rugby. Still, the players know the risks, so that's alright then.

https://www.versobooks.com/books/1712-tackling-rugby

It's a personal choice John, if you believe putting yourself in any situation where injury can be a possibility you wouldn't do it would you,  and I am not talking about malicious actions, there has been many serious incidents accuring by the results of accidents, so again if you have a fear of injury stay on the terraces don't venture onto the field.

[Chris22]

On the one hand, we don't want players to be robotic.

On the other, I can't think of another professional sport where athletes would post in the manner that our players do.

But if our players give out the message that our sport is actually pretty rubbish, why would a casual viewer give is the time of day?

[gingerjon]

30 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I am not talking about malicious actions

But it's foul play or borderline foul play that is being penalised.

So, if you're not talking about that, then what are you talking about?