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This Promotion/Relegation is a Farce


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1 hour ago, Scubby said:

There is no overseas quota in the Championship to my knowledge.

Why is that ? , Maybe something to do with the various expansion clubs that have come through the lower tiers ? 

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Just now, GUBRATS said:

Why is that ? , Maybe something to do with the various expansion clubs that have come through the lower tiers ? 

Nope.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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1 hour ago, Toby Chopra said:

But are we at saturation point in the heartlands? There game doesn't even seem to be as popular there as it was 10 years ago. There's lots of reasons for that, so I don't want to cherry pick an over-simplified answer, but in the same vein I don't think the reason Wigan are pulling lower crowds is just because we don't have teams in London, Dublin and Glasgow. 

We absolutely need to generate more revenues, but I think there's a decent argument that, given the limited funds we have to invest in that process, we'll achieve more incrementally with IMG's help, than some sort of big bang external expansion (most likely done on the cheap). 

You are one that quite rightly has argued that rugby league hasn't kept up with the social and cultural changes in the North of England, and is ignoring revenue groups that it doesnt know how to talk to.

Imagine if it did?

I think to do that it needs a broader appeal and base than currently. Positive and aspirational visibility is key, and I'm not sure the heartlands can do that from within tbh.

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5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Yes they did, you didn't, but the post I replied to did.

Which post , I've just looked ,no where stating only 

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1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Which post , I've just looked ,no where stating only 

Mr Oates, in repeated posts, has said there was no point in developing the game "outside of East and West Yorkshire and South Lancashire" and that focus should therefore be directed at those areas. 

"Focus on the heartlands", except this that this and oh I didn't realise they'd been around for so long...

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Just now, Tommygilf said:

Mr Oates, in repeated posts, has said there was no point in developing the game "outside of East and West Yorkshire and South Lancashire" and that focus should therefore be directed at those areas. 

"Focus on the heartlands", except this that this and oh I didn't realise they'd been around for so long...

Yes. It's worth making it clear that this also involves cutting Barrow adrift, as well as Workington and Whitehaven.

Not heartlands, you see.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

Yes. It's worth making it clear that this also involves cutting Barrow adrift, as well as Workington and Whitehaven.

Not heartlands, you see.

Bloody post war interlopers, didn't even split in 1895! 

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2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Mr Oates, in repeated posts, has said there was no point in developing the game "outside of East and West Yorkshire and South Lancashire" and that focus should therefore be directed at those areas. 

"Focus on the heartlands", except this that this and oh I didn't realise they'd been around for so long...

You were replying to Dave , has he suggested investing in Heartlands ONLY ? 

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Just now, GUBRATS said:

You were replying to Dave , has he suggested investing in Heartlands ONLY ? 

Dave took up my original reply to Mr Oates. Keep up Gubby its not even that late!

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21 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Yes , but if you aren't allowed to run a ' youth setup ' , what do you want these clubs to do ?

It's amazing how facts like this always seem so irrelevant.

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2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:

#CorbynwasrightandFordesaidso!  Trusscouldn'tcareless v Keith AWOL Tory vast majority in the making.

 

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2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Dave took up my original reply to Mr Oates. Keep up Gubby its not even that late!

' took up ' as in suggesting investment ( not only ) in the heartlands was still viable , he did not suggest only ,you however suggested no investment in the haertlands was viable as saturation point was reached long ago 

Please keep up 

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36 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

No, I'm saying that a heartlands only policy will struggle reach greater levels of popularity within the heartlands itself. I believe the maximum heartlands only popularity was achieved a long time ago, and the world has changed since then.

I would also think that we need to remember this is a specific discussion on player pyramid.

Re. Your last line, fair enough and I can understand your stance. I don't agree with it - but I also don't agree with a heartlands only approach, we've never done that as long as SL has been around and I expect we won't ever do it, but as long as there is growth available there it is still a reasonable idea to be tabled, and certainly does not automatically equate to going backwards. 

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46 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

' took up ' as in suggesting investment ( not only ) in the heartlands was still viable , he did not suggest only ,you however suggested no investment in the haertlands was viable as saturation point was reached long ago 

Please keep up 

No, took up as in replied to an existing conversation point.

In any case you said nobody, not just Dave, had made that point. You were wrong, and now look foolish.

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43 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Re. Your last line, fair enough and I can understand your stance. I don't agree with it - but I also don't agree with a heartlands only approach, we've never done that as long as SL has been around and I expect we won't ever do it, but as long as there is growth available there it is still a reasonable idea to be tabled, and certainly does not automatically equate to going backwards. 

Fair enough, happy to disagree on that. As seems to be happening more often recently it seems we are debating at different points, or at least coming from different angles, to cross purposes.

Perhaps then my point is that it is at a stage where having a game that is popular all over the country will make it easier to make it more popular in Dewsbury than having what the game is now to make the game more popular in Dewsbury (for example). That is to say, a heartlands only policy is doomed to fail imo, as the world where that did/may have done, doesn't exist. Again perhaps that is because of my age and greater amount of value placed on my own generation.

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Just now, Tommygilf said:

Fair enough, happy to disagree on that. As seems to be happening more often recently it seems we are debating at different points, or at least coming from different angles, to cross purposes.

Perhaps then my point is that it is at a stage where having a game that is popular all over the country will make it easier to make it more popular in Dewsbury than having what the game is now to make the game more popular in Dewsbury (for example). That is to say, a heartlands only policy is doomed to fail imo, as the world where that did/may have done, doesn't exist. Again perhaps that is because of my age and greater amount of value placed on my own generation.

I think a lot of the debates at the moment are merging into one and getting slightly muddled, in between work I don't mind admitting to sometimes losing track of what we are even debating 🤣

When I refer to heartlands only, I mean existing game, or maybe even a conservative approach - I think that's what people are advocating really rather than every penny or ounce of effort going onto m62 clubs. In reality I think it's geographical expansion vs not - my preference is we do it, but not some of the silly reckless stuff we have done in the past, which makes it easy for non-expansionists to strengthen their point. 

As with most things, we can probably apply at 80:20 model. Focus 80% on our core game and 20% on the exciting initiatives and we can't go too far wrong. 

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I have heard a whisper that the Big plan is for SL to become part of the mix of clubs run by the big football clubs eg Leigh Centurions to become simply “Centurions a Division of Sporting club Man Utd” Saints to Liverpool, Leeds to Leeds utd etc. The parents wealth will ensure expansion and the pick of any global talent from both codes resulting in significant future tv deals and huge exposure

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1 minute ago, sweaty craiq said:

I have heard a whisper that the Big plan is for SL to become part of the mix of clubs run by the big football clubs eg Leigh Centurions to become simply “Centurions a Division of Sporting club Man Utd” Saints to Liverpool, Leeds to Leeds utd etc. The parents wealth will ensure expansion and the pick of any global talent from both codes resulting in significant future tv deals and huge exposure

It's not a rumour if you start it yourself.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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16 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Yes. It's worth making it clear that this also involves cutting Barrow adrift, as well as Workington and Whitehaven.

Not heartlands, you see.

Heartlands is an unhelpful word, as nobody really knows what it means. To me it means 'existing', which includes plenty of places away from the M62. 

But it is rarely used in a positive way, so I say we put it in the swear filter! 

One thing I would add, when people want to bash the game they constantly talk about the M62, ignoring every other place RL is present. It's all ignorant. 

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10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Heartlands is an unhelpful word, as nobody really knows what it means. To me it means 'existing', which includes plenty of places away from the M62. 

But it is rarely used in a positive way, so I say we put it in the swear filter! 

One thing I would add, when people want to bash the game they constantly talk about the M62, ignoring every other place RL is present. It's all ignorant. 

But you do admit an "us" and "them" mentality has always and still exists in a number of people who follow the game in the heartlands. I remember people moaning at Sheffield in the 1990s when they were actually in the top flight before we even talk about the French clubs, London and those League 1 clubs.

Some of the social media comments about a French referee for the Saints-Toulouse game was pure xenophobia That is how narrow and shallow it gets unfortunately and it blurs a lot of the good intentions.

Edited by Scubby
typo
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6 minutes ago, Scubby said:

But you do admit an "us" and "them" mentality has always and still exists in a number of people who follow the game in the heartlands. I remember people moaning at Sheffield in the 1990s when they were actually in the top flight before we even talk about the French clubs, London and those League 1 clubs.

Some of the social media comments about a French referee for the Saints-Toulouse game was pure xenophobia That is how narrow and shallow it gets unfortunately and it blurs a lot of the good intentions.

There are all sorts of us and them groups. In this context we are discussing expansionist versus let's call them 'traditionalists'. 

P&R vs Licensing

Club vs internationals

SL vs Championships

Amateur vs Pro

It's life, people like to categorise people. 

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