RLWC Attendance-O-Meter

[Dave T]

One of the things I have found quite sad at this WC is that I think the pricing has taken it away from being a real family event or for younger folk. We appear to have priced out a lot of our lower demographic, and I think that includes some of the younger fans that maybe turn up with the drums (and sometimes the smoke bombs etc!). 

The crowds have all felt rather tame, and middle aged and rather middle class. I know we have had good student concessions, but for younger employed people the prices are high, particularly when you factor in travel or whatever for the likes of Arsenal and Newcastle. 

I think we need to think about how we get engagement with these younger less affluent audiences that are a core part of our customer base at club level. The pricing strategy really felt like we were telling them (and pensioners) that they weren't important and they weren't welcome. 

[Damien]

12 minutes ago, Dave T said:

That just takes us back to 2001 and we've moved on from that. 

I think with the Etihad, Elland Rd and London for an Ashes you'd average 40k.

For other nations, I think the 25k grounds like Hudds, Wigan, Bolton, maybe Hull etc are right. 

The spread for the cancelled ashes was pretty good in Bolton, Elland Road and Spurs and there are some decent stadium sizes there. That showed real ambition for the first time in a while. Unfortunately we can only guess what impact that may have had if it had taken place, and it wasnt for Covid, regarding ticket sales for a World Cup in 2021. I think we sometimes forget that. I'd prefer the Etihad too instead of Bolton but know there are usually issues with getting that venue in the Football season.

Small 25k RL venues in the heartlands just attract existing RL fans and don't appeal to a wider audience in significant numbers. They do say small time to the wider audience. As you say they are fine for nations outside Australia but even at that I'd still try and go bigger in London and/or Newcastle for at least one NZ, Tonga or Samoa match on the back of the World Cup.

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, Leonard said:

I think Hudds and Hull need to be canned. They have a lot of previous.

I would rather Coventry or even Sheffield again.

Hudds broadly delivers for England, its a good location. Hull, I probably agree. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

One of the things I have found quite sad at this WC is that I think the pricing has taken it away from being a real family event or for younger folk. We appear to have priced out a lot of our lower demographic, and I think that includes some of the younger fans that maybe turn up with the drums (and sometimes the smoke bombs etc!). 

The crowds have all felt rather tame, and middle aged and rather middle class. I know we have had good student concessions, but for younger employed people the prices are high, particularly when you factor in travel or whatever for the likes of Arsenal and Newcastle. 

I think we need to think about how we get engagement with these younger less affluent audiences that are a core part of our customer base at club level. The pricing strategy really felt like we were telling them (and pensioners) that they weren't important and they weren't welcome. 

I didn't mention this at the time - as I was travelling and didn't want to start WW3 over it - but there were plenty of kids around me at EL on Friday.

I did wonder if tickets were being handed out.

[Dave T]

6 minutes ago, Leonard said:

I think Hudds and Hull need to be canned. They have a lot of previous.

I would rather Coventry or even Sheffield again.

In a three Test series or has to be Yorks, Lancs (or East, West) and London. 

It's tried and tested. Coventry isn't right for us imo. 

[Guest]

Just now, Dave T said:

Hudds broadly delivers for England, its a good location. Hull, I probably agree. 

Maybe - just not sure what games in Hudds offers the sport. Coventry has shown it will turn out and it might have more strategic value. Probably why I would have a game at SJP and maybe there needs to be consideration of fast tracking a team in that area into super league.

For sure - ground selection needs to be joined up with a plan for future years.

Having the odd game at Anfield and then nothing again seems a pointless when you could try and build a larger legacy elsewhere.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

In a three Test series or has to be Yorks, Lancs (or East, West) and London. 

It's tried and tested. Coventry isn't right for us imo. 

I guess the problem then is you reinforce what we already have and never try and move away to something new.

Not saying it is easy though. Ideally you would want 4 to 5 games vs a couple of sides - but I doubt that is happening.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Leonard said:

I didn't mention this at the time - as I was travelling and didn't want to start WW3 over it - but there were plenty of kids around me at EL on Friday.

I did wonder if tickets were being handed out.

I don't doubt there have been. It's clear expensive seats have been a tough sell and suddenly they have been populated. 

I don't have an issue with that based on the situation. 

[Guest]

Just now, Dave T said:

I don't doubt there have been. It's clear expensive seats have been a tough sell and suddenly they have been populated. 

I don't have an issue with that based on the situation. 

Me neither - but people on here post like because 40k or 23k is given out - there were that number in the ground and also they all paid for it.

I don't believe either. Although accept whatever the figures, they are of course the higher performing games.

[pahars]

50 minutes ago, St Reatham said:

I’d go with with smaller stadiums, and try to sell them out. Sell outs would potentially create future demand as people wouldn’t want to miss out? That would require a proper International calendar, years in advance though, and I’m sure someone will tell me that’s totally the wrong way to generate future interest.

But we’ve just averaged 30,000 against tier 2 and below. We should surely be able to get 40,000 average  for tier 1? Imagine all that money you’re throwing away. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, pahars said:

But we’ve just averaged 30,000 against tier 2 and below. We should surely be able to get 40,000 average  for tier 1? Imagine all that money you’re throwing away. 

On a separate note - I would love to seem some SL games on the road to cash in. One of my friends who came to broncos this year, a few CC finals previously and yesterday is waxing lyrical and was saying newbies next to him were also gagging for some more games.

On the basis they won't be watching Broncos - I would be interested to see what a decent high end SL game might do. 

Although I get that will be tough to achieve for obvious reasons. Almost makes me wonder if we should sack off Magic and put those games on the road individually.

 

[Guest]

Double post.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Leonard

[St Reatham]

14 minutes ago, pahars said:

But we’ve just averaged 30,000 against tier 2 and below. We should surely be able to get 40,000 average  for tier 1? Imagine all that money you’re throwing away. 

If we are to believe some posters here, yesterday’s attendance was only 30k, for a WC SF. Can forget what Tier nation England were playing - it was a WC SF! I said 30-40k, so maybe target a 40k stadium in London?

[Damien]

3 minutes ago, St Reatham said:

If we are to believe some posters here, yesterday’s attendance was only 30k, for a WC SF. Can forget what Tier nation England were playing - it was a WC SF! I said 30-40k, so maybe target a 40k stadium in London?

It's weird to believe some random on a forum rather than the official attendance just to try and backup your point. Anyhow there is only one 40k stadium that springs to mind, Chelsea, and there is no chance they will make it available.

[MatthewWoody]

What's the average attendance for a CC final in London? 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, St Reatham said:

If we are to believe some posters here, yesterday’s attendance was only 30k, for a WC SF. Can forget what Tier nation England were playing - it was a WC SF! I said 30-40k, so maybe target a 40k stadium in London?

30k-40k is decent. But you are right - it was a WC semi final with plenty of build. You would hope for more.

Maybe Australia would have added a fair bit with expats.

[Guest]

Just now, MatthewWoody said:

What's the average attendance for a CC final in London? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Challenge_Cup_finals

[Guest]

2003	Bradford Bulls (5)	22 – 20	Leeds Rhinos	Millennium Stadium, Cardiff	71,212
2004	St Helens (9)	32 – 16	Wigan Warriors		73,734
2005	Hull FC (3)	25 – 24	Leeds Rhinos		74,213
2006	St Helens (10)	42 – 12	Huddersfield Giants	Twickenham Stadium, London	65,187
2007	St Helens (11)	30 – 8	Catalans Dragons	Wembley Stadium, London	84,241
2008	St Helens (12)	28 – 16	Hull FC		82,821
2009	Warrington Wolves (6)	25 – 16	Huddersfield Giants		76,560
2010	Warrington Wolves (7)	30 – 6	Leeds Rhinos		85,217
2011	Wigan Warriors (18)	28 – 18	Leeds Rhinos		78,482
2012	Warrington Wolves (8)	35 – 18	Leeds Rhinos		79,180
2013	Wigan Warriors (19)	16 – 0	Hull FC		78,137
2014	Leeds Rhinos (12)	23 – 10	Castleford Tigers		77,914
2015	Leeds Rhinos (13)	50 – 0	Hull Kingston Rovers		80,140
2016	Hull FC (4)	12 – 10	Warrington Wolves		76,235
2017	Hull FC (5)	18 – 14	Wigan Warriors		68,525
2018	Catalans Dragons	20 – 14	Warrington Wolves		50,672
2019	Warrington Wolves (9)	18 – 4	St Helens		62,717
2020	Leeds Rhinos (14)	17 – 16	Salford Red Devils		N/Aa
2021	St Helens (13)	26 – 12	Castleford Tigers		40,000b
2022	Wigan Warriors (20)	16 – 14	Huddersfield Giants	Tottenham Hotspur Stadium, London	51,628

[Guest]

Just now, Leonard said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Challenge_Cup_finals

With the caveat about Club Wembley.

[MatthewWoody]

Except Covid years, more people attended these games than the World Cup sf.

Is there really all this appetite for the Int game? 

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, MatthewWoody said:

Except Covid years, more people attended these games than the World Cup sf.

Is there really all this appetite for the Int game? 

Of course there is

[Guest]

1 minute ago, MatthewWoody said:

Except Covid years, more people attended these games than the World Cup sf.

Is there really all this appetite for the Int game? 

I tend to find they are different audiences. CC is heavily northern with a smattering of locals.

Yesterday was heavily southern with a smattering of northerners.

Apples and pears.

The game has so little money they cannot sniff at 30k to 40k audiences if they can get enough internationals to put on.

[Damien]

Just now, MatthewWoody said:

Except Covid years, more people attended these games than the World Cup sf.

Is there really all this appetite for the Int game? 

Yesterday's game got a bigger attendance than any international in the heartlands since the World Cup final in 2013. If that is no appetite then we may as well give up.

[St Reatham]

5 minutes ago, Damien said:

It's weird to believe some random on a forum rather than the official attendance just to try and backup your point. Anyhow there is only one 40k stadium that springs to mind, Chelsea, and there is no chance they will make it available.

Fair enough. Let’s just find the biggest stadium in the UK to hire, do nothing to advertise or promote a fixture, and watch the fans flock to it.

[MatthewWoody]

1 minute ago, Leonard said:

I tend to find they are different audiences. CC is heavily northern with a smattering of locals.

Yesterday was heavily southern with a smattering of northerners.

Apples and pears.

The game has so little money they cannot sniff at 30k to 40k audiences if they can get enough internationals to put on.

Apple and pears maybe. 

Still, I wonder why this northern audience feel less attracted by England playing an historical match than their club playing the final of a competition that is played every year.