Toronto Wolfpack 2023 fixtures

[Gomersall]

4 hours ago, Pulga said:

It seems to be just you unfortunately. My embedding hasn't changed since Musk took over. 

I’ve noticed someone else hasn’t been able to embed tweets on here too.

[TheReaper]

21 hours ago, sam4731 said:

Imagine, if instead of transplanting a Canadian team onto the British system, the RFL tried to develop a small North American League. I mean it's still possible for them to reach out and support the organisation without needing to commit very much with the benefit of strong relations between the two continents.

The RFL couldn't handle the team coming to them. What makes you think they have an capacity to help at all here?

[TheReaper]

21 hours ago, sam4731 said:

Imagine, if instead of transplanting a Canadian team onto the British system, the RFL tried to develop a small North American League. I mean it's still possible for them to reach out and support the organisation without needing to commit very much with the benefit of strong relations between the two continents.

The RFL couldn't handle the team coming to them. What makes you think they have an capacity to help at all here?

[sam4731]

3 hours ago, TheReaper said:

The RFL couldn't handle the team coming to them. What makes you think they have an capacity to help at all here?

The RFL don't have to be physically present to help them. There is lots they can do to help from afar. Referee development, mental health care, player and coach support etc. Basically just showing willingness to provide Amy support that they might need and being open to creating pathways between the two continents.

[TheReaper]

13 hours ago, sam4731 said:

The RFL don't have to be physically present to help them. There is lots they can do to help from afar. Referee development, mental health care, player and coach support etc. Basically just showing willingness to provide Amy support that they might need and being open to creating pathways between the two continents.

On 26/08/2023 at 04:19, sam4731 said:

 

What stopped them from doing that in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2021 or 2022? What's changed that they'd be willing and able to do that now?

[sam4731]

9 hours ago, TheReaper said:

What stopped them from doing that in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2021 or 2022? What's changed that they'd be willing and able to do that now?

They won't. I'm just saying they could and it would be beneficial for them. If I was in charge, who knows what mess we'd be in.

[Gomersall]

https://x.com/towolfpack/status/1698121753413792142?s=61&t=M7heKyGUQ6aCihEBfA8Sew

[Omott91]

Why are Twp winning so easily? They and their opposition are all amateurs and similar skill?

[Gomersall]

1 hour ago, Omott91 said:

Why are Twp winning so easily? They and their opposition are all amateurs and similar skill?

TWP are basically an Ontario select team. 

[sam4731]

2 hours ago, Gomersall said:

TWP are basically an Ontario select team. 

Just asking for a friend but do you think they'd be at the level for a league 1 spot next season should 1 of the teams drop out?

[Tommygilf]

On 27/08/2023 at 06:40, TheReaper said:

The RFL couldn't handle the team coming to them. What makes you think they have an capacity to help at all here?

Its poor, but what RU does/did well to support development, is having tours by various levels of teams to various countries, including Canada. It doesn't have to be RFL directed or organised, but they could help facilitate things.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

Its poor, but what RU does/did well to support development, is having tours by various levels of teams to various countries, including Canada. It doesn't have to be RFL directed or organised, but they could help facilitate things.

Yes, I think support like that is a decent way of going about it. I'm not sure some of the other things mentioned are of that much use to them and I do think it's important that development is led from the home governing body and international boards. The RFL is not responsible for Canada RL development. 

But I do always think supporting with teams, matches, tours etc can be beneficial all round. 

[Tex Evans Thigh]

7 hours ago, Omott91 said:

Why are Twp winning so easily? They and their opposition are all amateurs and similar skill?

Teams out of season, traveling a fair distance for a drink up.

These are exhibition games and Toronto have a good bunch of players from the region. The visiting teams are typically patched up and can’t really be bothered but are getting a free trip to Toronto.

[northamptoncougar]

23 hours ago, sam4731 said:

Just asking for a friend but do you think they'd be at the level for a league 1 spot next season should 1 of the teams drop out?

Yorkshire Division 1 at a push, League 1 not a chance 

[TheReaper]

On 03/09/2023 at 15:48, Tex Evans Thigh said:

Teams out of season, traveling a fair distance for a drink up.

These are exhibition games and Toronto have a good bunch of players from the region. The visiting teams are typically patched up and can’t really be bothered but are getting a free trip to Toronto.

It's really hard to find schedules, apparently nobody involved in American rugby league can manage a website that isn't just Instagram, but DC + Boston are playing in Rugby League United with schedule running June to August, and Atlanta, SW Florida, Jacksonville, and Tampa are playing in USARL (south?) also running from June to August. So they are very much in season for a TWP schedule that was announced mid-June and started mid-July.

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by TheReaper

[Tex Evans Thigh]

On 05/09/2023 at 12:49, TheReaper said:

It's really hard to find schedules, apparently nobody involved in American rugby league can manage a website that isn't just Instagram, but DC + Boston are playing in Rugby League United with schedule running June to August, and Atlanta, SW Florida, Jacksonville, and Tampa are playing in USARL (south?) also running from June to August. So they are very much in season for a TWP schedule that was announced mid-June and started mid-July.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Toronto just played Boston (a patched up Boston with players from other teams) on September 2nd. Boston's last meaningful game was in July. They didnt play their dead rubber with Delaware on August 5th and sent about 4 or 5 guys to play in the grand final curtain raiser on aug 12th, the rest of the team was Brooklyn squad players and a few other lads from other sources. This wasn't even a real game.

So even if you count the Aug 12th game as a real game (is wasnt) then they are 3 weeks out of season and agreed to play on a weeks notice after DC pulled out, in reality they were 5/6 weeks out of season and only had about 7-8 actual Boston players in the team. Even if DC had played, they would have still been 3 weeks out of season. It would be virtually impossible to play in season, because the teams are...well playing their own season. The games against teams in season would have been by-weeks. I think the Copperheads one is an example.

This isn't a dig at the Wolfpack and I'm not saying they aren't a good team or they wouldn't beat these teams in any other circumstance because they are a good team and probably would win most of the time, but don't kid yourself that these are the best versions of the teams they are playing. 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Tex Evans Thigh

[sam4731]

I think a lot of people are missing the point if these matches. The scores are completely irrelevant. What the new owners are trying to do is prove that they are capable of starting a club from scratch with no outside support and grow by building on a solidly organised first foundation season.

[TheReaper]

On 06/09/2023 at 14:57, Tex Evans Thigh said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Toronto just played Boston (a patched up Boston with players from other teams) on September 2nd. Boston's last meaningful game was in July. They didnt play their dead rubber with Delaware on August 5th and sent about 4 or 5 guys to play in the grand final curtain raiser on aug 12th, the rest of the team was Brooklyn squad players and a few other lads from other sources. This wasn't even a real game.

So even if you count the Aug 12th game as a real game (is wasnt) then they are 3 weeks out of season and agreed to play on a weeks notice after DC pulled out, in reality they were 5/6 weeks out of season and only had about 7-8 actual Boston players in the team. Even if DC had played, they would have still been 3 weeks out of season. It would be virtually impossible to play in season, because the teams are...well playing their own season. The games against teams in season would have been by-weeks. I think the Copperheads one is an example.

This isn't a dig at the Wolfpack and I'm not saying they aren't a good team or they wouldn't beat these teams in any other circumstance because they are a good team and probably would win most of the time, but don't kid yourself that these are the best versions of the teams they are playing. 

The Boston game I agree is a bit different, since they filled in for DC. 

But for the rest, if you have a game lined up to happen a few weeks after your regular season ends, it's not really "out of season", it's just an extended season. you already have are in in the habit of training and playing, you just... keep doing that. Obviously you can't play the exact same day in a regular league and an exhibition series, but how much more in season could you get?

I think it's a combination of:

1) travel. We have a counter example of Toronto Saints at Cleveland this spring, with Saints winning 34-22 with a lot of the same players - I count 13 guys (12 who played) in that Saints lineup who are currently on TWP. So a lot closer with the travel flipped.

2) TWP is, if having no other advantage due to being "professional", is a combination of mostly 2 amateur clubs, which is an advantage over a single club.

3) I think the level of grassroots level rugby in Canada is just a bit better than the USA, in both union and league. Most of the TWP guys also play union, and have been for years. I think more of the Americans are newer in general to the sport. 

[Tex Evans Thigh]

On 07/09/2023 at 16:08, TheReaper said:

The Boston game I agree is a bit different, since they filled in for DC. 

But for the rest, if you have a game lined up to happen a few weeks after your regular season ends, it's not really "out of season", it's just an extended season. you already have are in in the habit of training and playing, you just... keep doing that. Obviously you can't play the exact same day in a regular league and an exhibition series, but how much more in season could you get?

I think it's a combination of:

1) travel. We have a counter example of Toronto Saints at Cleveland this spring, with Saints winning 34-22 with a lot of the same players - I count 13 guys (12 who played) in that Saints lineup who are currently on TWP. So a lot closer with the travel flipped.

2) TWP is, if having no other advantage due to being "professional", is a combination of mostly 2 amateur clubs, which is an advantage over a single club.

3) I think the level of grassroots level rugby in Canada is just a bit better than the USA, in both union and league. Most of the TWP guys also play union, and have been for years. I think more of the Americans are newer in general to the sport. 

Teams clock off and move on after the last game. I'm taking my team up there this week and it absolutely isn't anywhere near our proper team, we havent trained since early august and 5 or 6 have never played League. I'm giving you some insight into what is actually happening. Toronto aren't getting full teams at their peak, whereas they have all the advantages you listed. 

Not sure I agree on point 3. Go down and play DC or Jacksonville in June when theyre in season and have home advantage etc and see how that game pans out. There are a lot of players who've got excellent union pedigree and plenty of league experience in the US, you're just not seeing any really well prepared actual teams come up, which is to be expected for exhibition games. Feel free to come and say hello next saturday.

[Gomersall]

 

[welshmagpie]

On 09/09/2023 at 21:23, Tex Evans Thigh said:

Teams clock off and move on after the last game. I'm taking my team up there this week and it absolutely isn't anywhere near our proper team, we havent trained since early august and 5 or 6 have never played League. I'm giving you some insight into what is actually happening. Toronto aren't getting full teams at their peak, whereas they have all the advantages you listed. 

Not sure I agree on point 3. Go down and play DC or Jacksonville in June when theyre in season and have home advantage etc and see how that game pans out. There are a lot of players who've got excellent union pedigree and plenty of league experience in the US, you're just not seeing any really well prepared actual teams come up, which is to be expected for exhibition games. Feel free to come and say hello next saturday.

Pardon my poor inference but who’s your team mate?

[sam4731]

4 hours ago, Gomersall said:

 

It's encouraging to see that they are getting a game on no matter what. That's the point of this season, get events on to prove they can organise properly.

[Tex Evans Thigh]

3 hours ago, sam4731 said:

It's encouraging to see that they are getting a game on no matter what. That's the point of this season, get events on to prove they can organise properly.

Theyre certainly making an effort and making it worthwhile, hence why we and a bunch of other teams are making the effort at short notice. Pretty promising outlook I would say. The big question is how do they convert this to competitive fixtures next season and further down the track.

[TheReaper]

On 09/09/2023 at 16:23, Tex Evans Thigh said:

Teams clock off and move on after the last game. I'm taking my team up there this week and it absolutely isn't anywhere near our proper team, we havent trained since early august and 5 or 6 have never played League. I'm giving you some insight into what is actually happening. Toronto aren't getting full teams at their peak, whereas they have all the advantages you listed. 

Not sure I agree on point 3. Go down and play DC or Jacksonville in June when theyre in season and have home advantage etc and see how that game pans out. There are a lot of players who've got excellent union pedigree and plenty of league experience in the US, you're just not seeing any really well prepared actual teams come up, which is to be expected for exhibition games. Feel free to come and say hello next saturday.

Fair enough, I had assumed based on my own club experiences that things would hold together better with a game like that on the horizon. I also continue to read claims that USARL is still "semi pro" in some shape or form.

On point 3, I think at the "top end of amateur" union, Marshal Premiership/ USA "D1" things would be pretty even. But I'm talking about the bottom end, typical players which is who you say they're sending up. I think your average, run of the mill, not-the-top-flight team - aka branch union in Ontario /  D2-3-4 in the USA -  I think the level of Canadian "beer league" teams is higher than USA "beer league". I was at Nash Bash this year and 6 Canadian teams travelled down. 5 of those made their division finals out of like 90 teams, the one that didn't faced another Canadian team in the semi final. I also played with a D3 USA team in 2021 and the level seemed a step lower than the bottom of the Ontario leagues.

So I guess I'm saying is that it's not that there aren't good players, but the depth isn't there / the average drops off.

Edited September 12, 2023 by TheReaper

[Tex Evans Thigh]

3 hours ago, TheReaper said:

Fair enough, I had assumed based on my own club experiences that things would hold together better with a game like that on the horizon. I also continue to read claims that USARL is still "semi pro" in some shape or form.

Not sure who is claiming this but it is absolutely not true!

There are some good Union players playing League in the US and some basic ones as well. I'm not well versed enough to be able to compare the different levels in each country but we see some good players.