Strong rumours NRL #18 team will be PNG

[Sports Prophet]

I’m not throwing any such accusation to see if it sticks @UTK. I think you will find I haven’t really accused a PNG team of anything except for either being inauthentic if it is going to base itself out of Cairns 6 days a week; or being a commercially bad decision for the NRL.

Papuan fanaticism in NRL means nothing here in this discussion. Yep, the PNGers love the NRL. So what? Is that going to directly correlate with the success of an NRL club? Not really. Is it going to give benefit to everyday Papuans and extend bilateral affairs with Australia to ward off big bad China? Certainly not in the same way infrastructure will.

The investment made into performance centres is great. If the proposal of an NRL club is to improve the pathway for PNG players to the NRL, I am here to say I think that is a weak action lacking the commercial opportunity to achieve the objective and I believe the better options out there are cheaper and offer a greater opportunity to achieve diplomacy benefits the government are seeking.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Sports Prophet

[Damien]

2 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I’m not throwing any such accusation to see if it sticks @UTK. I think you will find I haven’t really accused a PNG team of anything except for either being inauthentic if it is going to base itself out of Cairns 6 days a week; or being a commercially bad decision for the NRL.

Papuan fanaticism in NRL means nothing here in this discussion. Yep, the PNGers love the NRL. So what? Is that going to directly correlate with the success of an NRL club? Not really. Is it going to give benefit to everyday Papuans and extend bilateral affairs with Australia to ward off big bad China? Certainly not in the same way infrastructure will.

The investment made into performance centres is great. If the proposal of an NRL club is to improve the pathway for PNG players to the NRL, I am here to say I think that is a weak action lacking the commercial opportunity to achieve the objective and I believe the better options out there are cheaper and offer a greater opportunity to achieve diplomacy benefits the government are seeking.

Isn't the diplomatic argument more that this gives extraordinary bang for your buck though? In that $25 million a year would achieve far more than spending the equivalent on defence and infrastructure, and would probably equate to spending $100s of million on extra defence and infrastructure. Its a really cheap way for the Australian government to form closer ties and exert influence. People power is a powerful tool and the fanaticism that the PNG people have for the NRL and Rugby League is not something any PNG Government will take lightly in my opinion.

[Anita Bath]

I doubt the PNG gov would sell its soul for 25m. Sure take it to support a fledgling NRL side but that wont stop them taking far more from China for infrastructure projects (just as Australia did for the port of Darwin - $506m in 2015 dollars). 

PNG government not in the position of choosing one versus the other…and what would Albo do if the PNG gov do take substantial funds from China? Threaten to cancel the $25? Thats not even a round of drinks to Beijing.

[Damien]

3 minutes ago, Anita Bath said:

I doubt the PNG gov would sell its soul for 25m. Sure take it to support a fledgling NRL side but that wont stop them taking far more from China for infrastructure projects (just as Australia did for the port of Darwin - $506m in 2015 dollars). 

PNG government not in the position of choosing one versus the other…and what would Albo do if the PNG gov do take substantial funds from China? Threaten to cancel the $25? Thats not even a round of drinks to Beijing.

I dont think anyone seriously thinks it is a case of choosing one and not the other though. It is more a case of using one to counter the other, on the cheap too.

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

Isn't the diplomatic argument more that this gives extraordinary bang for your buck though? In that $25 million a year would achieve far more than spending the equivalent on defence and infrastructure, and would probably equate to spending $100s of million on extra defence and infrastructure. Its a really cheap way for the Australian government to form closer ties and exert influence. People power is a powerful tool and the fanaticism that the PNG people have for the NRL and Rugby League is not something any PNG Government will take lightly in my opinion.

But the NRL club requires infrastructure and professional people to deliver it. I’m not sure there is enough intangible benefit to underwriting a professional RL club on top of all that, when the same tangible benefits can pretty much be delivered off the back of delivering the infrastructure only.

Plough some of the expenses for player and staff wages and logistics of an NRL club and you could deliver far more.

[Damien]

52 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

But the NRL club requires infrastructure and professional people to deliver it. I’m not sure there is enough intangible benefit to underwriting a professional RL club on top of all that, when the same tangible benefits can pretty much be delivered off the back of delivering the infrastructure only.

Plough some of the expenses for player and staff wages and logistics of an NRL club and you could deliver far more.

Surely all that is more than covered by the $25 million a year from the Australian government, whatever from the PNG government and the $15 or so million funding that every NRL club gets. I don't see how it's any more underwriting than any other club.

I don't really get the argument that the same benefits can be provided without a NRL club. Much of what you talk of is there now with the Hunters who are fairly well established at this point.

[Bamboozle]

3 hours ago, Anita Bath said:

I doubt the PNG gov would sell its soul for 25m. Sure take it to support a fledgling NRL side but that wont stop them taking far more from China for infrastructure projects (just as Australia did for the port of Darwin - $506m in 2015 dollars). 

PNG government not in the position of choosing one versus the other…and what would Albo do if the PNG gov do take substantial funds from China? Threaten to cancel the $25? Thats not even a round of drinks to Beijing.

Port Moresby should take the investment $$$ from China over a professional RL club in the NRL as it would benefit the country and people a whole lot more.

[Bamboozle]

18 hours ago, eal said:

PNG will attract NRL level talent, but they will have huge trouble getting marquee players, the ones that win premierships.

they’d have huge problems attracting NRL talent that could make them competitive never mind ones that win premierships.

they’ve got Gold Coast chargers/seagulls, western reds and Adelaide rams written all over them and that’s if they’re lucky.

[Bamboozle]

15 hours ago, EggFace said:

I hope it happens as it like like Hawaii or Mexico City getting a NFL team....hopefully they do.

More like Havana or port-au-prince.

[Bamboozle]

7 hours ago, Keith989 said:

On the attendances, the 11k at the Sharks will probably be worth more than a sell out in Port Morseby due to ticket pricing.

I can't believe that people think they're aren't  going to be quirks (such as basing in Cairns and playing some home games elsewhere) when having a PI side in a pro competition. I really don't think people are quite grasping the economic realities in PNG.

I remember seeing an article before the Drua's first game where it was mentioned that the price of some tickets were equivalent to a month's wage for most of the country. The situation is supposedly even worse in PNG. 

I think a lot of people are guilty of wishful thinking and being blinded by the fact that PNG fans are fanatical RL fans instead of accepting the cold hard realities that the PNG is a poor 3rd world country racked with high levels of poverty and crime.

[eal]

PNG isn't like setting up a team in Suva or Apia. It is a country with the second highest crime rate in the world. Players would never be able to leave a tightly secured compound unless they were accompanied by armed security.

[UTK]

13 hours ago, Damien said:

I dont think anyone seriously thinks it is a case of choosing one and not the other though. It is more a case of using one to counter the other, on the cheap too.

Absolutely, the decision is being framed as if the Australian government is deciding to remove the $500+ million of foreign aid they give to PNG a year in favour of a $25 Million dollar commitment to an NRL side. Completely nonsensical.

The government is simply taking advantage of a cultural connection between the countries that doesn't exist with China and is permeated throughout PNG, both in the general population and arguably more importantly through politicians that run the country. It's not as if China can offer the Hunters a franchise in the Chinese Rugby League can they? 

The diplomatic benefit is the least controversial part of the entire bid. 

[The Rocket]

5 hours ago, UTK said:

Absolutely, the decision is being framed as if the Australian government is deciding to remove the $500+ million of foreign aid they give to PNG a year in favour of a $25 Million dollar commitment to an NRL side. Completely nonsensical.

The government is simply taking advantage of a cultural connection between the countries that doesn't exist with China and is permeated throughout PNG, both in the general population and arguably more importantly through politicians that run the country. It's not as if China can offer the Hunters a franchise in the Chinese Rugby League can they? 

The diplomatic benefit is the least controversial part of the entire bid. 

I wonder if that means if one of the huge multi-national Government owned Chinese companies operating in PNG wants to be a front of shirt sponsor for the team they would be rejected. Could they so no to say 5 - 10 million a year. Australia`s funding won`t last forever.

Ironic wouldn`t it, Australian/PNG government funded team with a Chinese Government owned company`s name plastered across their jumper reaping some of the positive associations created by the team`s existence.

Edited October 24, 2023 by The Rocket
spelling error correction.

[The Future is League]

17 hours ago, Bamboozle said:

they’d have huge problems attracting NRL talent that could make them competitive never mind ones that win premierships.

they’ve got Gold Coast chargers/seagulls, western reds and Adelaide rams written all over them and that’s if they’re lucky.

 

8 hours ago, eal said:

PNG isn't like setting up a team in Suva or Apia. It is a country with the second highest crime rate in the world. Players would never be able to leave a tightly secured compound unless they were accompanied by armed security.

I don't think any players from the PNG team or the visiting NRL team will be staying overnight. I think it will be a case of flying in and out on match days and training and living in Queensland

[Damien]

V'landys makes this sound like a done deal looking at the bottom of this article:

The Albanese government has reportedly offered up to $25 million annually to put a team into Papua New Guinea as a means of dealing with the continual geopolitical threat of China influencing the region.

The ARLC is expected to move ahead with plans to introduce an 18th team into the competition as early as 2026.

“His speech was exceptional. It made you proud to be an Australian. It was really emotional and powerful. A lot of people commented on how good it was. We have a good relationship, and he has a vision for the 18th team. The commission shares that vision.

“It’s not just about the 18th team and the impact on the NRL. It’s about participation and pathways in PNG. It’s a benefit to the whole of PNG. Phil Gould once told me the story of how kids don’t attend school over there, but the minute you introduce a game of rugby league in school, they all turn up. We want to provide that fabric. In order for this to work, it’s about setting up pathways in schools.”

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/inside-peter-v-landys-night-with-albo-and-joe-biden-at-the-white-house-20231026-p5efcu.html

 

[The Rocket]

30 minutes ago, Damien said:

V'landys makes this sound like a done deal looking at the bottom of this article:

The Albanese government has reportedly offered up to $25 million annually to put a team into Papua New Guinea as a means of dealing with the continual geopolitical threat of China influencing the region.

The ARLC is expected to move ahead with plans to introduce an 18th team into the competition as early as 2026.

“His speech was exceptional. It made you proud to be an Australian. It was really emotional and powerful. A lot of people commented on how good it was. We have a good relationship, and he has a vision for the 18th team. The commission shares that vision.

“It’s not just about the 18th team and the impact on the NRL. It’s about participation and pathways in PNG. It’s a benefit to the whole of PNG. Phil Gould once told me the story of how kids don’t attend school over there, but the minute you introduce a game of rugby league in school, they all turn up. We want to provide that fabric. In order for this to work, it’s about setting up pathways in schools.”

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/inside-peter-v-landys-night-with-albo-and-joe-biden-at-the-white-house-20231026-p5efcu.html

 

There`s no doubt about V`landy`s, he knows who to butter-up, calling Albanese a "great man" in another interview, referencing Phil Gould in the above quote (very important to have him on side) he also referenced "soft diplomacy"   several times in an interview about his dealings with the Americans. Pretty obvious what he`s thinking here, big pot of money from the Aussie Gov`t using League as a tool to counter Chinese influence in the Pacific, all with the Yank`s blessing.

Edited October 27, 2023 by The Rocket

[The Future is League]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

V'landys makes this sound like a done deal looking at the bottom of this article:

The Albanese government has reportedly offered up to $25 million annually to put a team into Papua New Guinea as a means of dealing with the continual geopolitical threat of China influencing the region.

The ARLC is expected to move ahead with plans to introduce an 18th team into the competition as early as 2026.

“His speech was exceptional. It made you proud to be an Australian. It was really emotional and powerful. A lot of people commented on how good it was. We have a good relationship, and he has a vision for the 18th team. The commission shares that vision.

“It’s not just about the 18th team and the impact on the NRL. It’s about participation and pathways in PNG. It’s a benefit to the whole of PNG. Phil Gould once told me the story of how kids don’t attend school over there, but the minute you introduce a game of rugby league in school, they all turn up. We want to provide that fabric. In order for this to work, it’s about setting up pathways in schools.”

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/inside-peter-v-landys-night-with-albo-and-joe-biden-at-the-white-house-20231026-p5efcu.html

 

The PNG is of no financial risk to the ARL/NRL and therefore IN MY OPINION opens up the prospect of a 19th NRL club sooner rather than later. Just saying

[Bamboozle]

6 hours ago, The Future is League said:

The PNG is of no financial risk to the ARL/NRL and therefore IN MY OPINION opens up the prospect of a 19th NRL club sooner rather than later. Just saying

Until the handouts end.

what happens then?

[Damien]

4 minutes ago, Bamboozle said:

Until the handouts end.

what happens then?

The biggest cost is the start-up costs and initial years costs and these will be covered. Any costs will then decline over time. NRL clubs do get funding to the tune of several million over the salary cap so there is no reason they can't be sustainable like any other NRL club. I also presume the PNG government and any sponsors aren't also going to also just walk away.

[Bamboozle]

4 minutes ago, Damien said:

The biggest cost is the start-up costs and initial years costs and these will be covered. Any costs will then decline over time. NRL clubs do get funding to the tune of several million over the salary cap so there is no reason they can't be sustainable like any other NRL club. I also presume the PNG government and any sponsors aren't also going to also just walk away.

I have my doubts but let’s hope so.

should really be pushing hard to get some money out of the big multinational corporations currently raping the PNG landscape.

[Copa]

6 hours ago, Bamboozle said:

Until the handouts end.

what happens then?

If the direct handout for a PNG NRL team stops,  the Australian government will probably continue with its regular $500 million annual aid budget to PNG and ensure $20 million of it goes to a project the PNG government has for some reason stopped funding themselves to pay for an NRL team.

All politicians of note in Australia across the political spectrum would realise how insignificant the investment is for such a potentially significant return on investment. So I would be surprised if it’s culled after a few years.

I suspect only wholesale corruption on the PNG side would threaten it. I also suspect money will come with conditions such as capacity building to develop their own income streams eventually… which is not unusual when it comes to aid.

[Copa]

On 24/10/2023 at 12:26, The Rocket said:

I wonder if that means if one of the huge multi-national Government owned Chinese companies operating in PNG wants to be a front of shirt sponsor for the team they would be rejected. Could they so no to say 5 - 10 million a year. Australia`s funding won`t last forever.

Ironic wouldn`t it, Australian/PNG government funded team with a Chinese Government owned company`s name plastered across their jumper reaping some of the positive associations created by the team`s existence.

The Raiders took millions from Huawei and it wasn’t an issue at all.

[Dirkgee]

It's worth noting to those who doubt this will happen that Australia has been doing the same thing with Fiji's Union team. Over the last 4 years Australia has sent $52 million to pay for the Fijian Drua team to compete in Super Rugby. Also slightly ironic in that this money has helped the Fiji union team develop to a much higher standard who then went on to knock out Australia in the union WC.

 

https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/500364/fiji-s-drua-franchise-secures-australian-govt-backing-for-another-four-years

[londonrlfan]

The NRL must really hate Perth. There will be a team in Antarctica before there.

In some ways, it's great news. Another country with a pro team, and one that loves the sport and has genuine development. If there could be a 24 man squad of fully pro PNG players, it would be a huge boost to the international game too.

[The Rocket]

Article in today`s The Australian:

NRL expansion: Australian government to provide $600 million in funding for PNG bid | The Australian

"It is understood the Federal government is prepared to bankroll a $600m expansion package — $60m injected annually for at least 10 years for sporting and economic development in PNG via the NRL’s overseas push into the Pacific."

$60 million per year !

"A proposed PNG franchise will have the financial and political support of Mr Albanese – and now US president Joe Biden – following the Australian Prime Minister’s trip to the White House."

No wonder they are going with Papua New Guinea.