The IMG Gradings Thread - Post all your IMG Gradings related questions or comments here

[Chrispmartha]

4 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

Any high grade B, Toulouse, Featherstone, Bradford, York, Widnes....would have had a crack at staying in SL just from SL status. Except London, SL status isn't gonna give them enough of an img boost come next rankings. Now it's almost impossible from all on the outside. Except perhaps those with recent residue SL status like Cas & Wakey. 

Look at the grades from 14 down, any club below that wouldn’t have stayed up with the grades they would have had to make up.

[Smudger06]

7 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

They aren’t playing RL in those other catchment areas because there aren’t clubs doing the work in the community in those areas, that’s exactly the point!

They certainly won’t be any if the game doesn’t reward the clubs that try.

The point is, this system isn't gonna encourage that either. Let's look at Scholars and Thunder

[Chrispmartha]

4 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

Semore kudri probs saw that, so this system looks like its gonna attract less serious investors. 

Why are you talking to yourself?

[Chrispmartha]

Just now, Smudger06 said:

The point is, this system isn't gonna encourage that either. Let's look at Scholars and Thunder

It is to some extent because those clubs will have got a higher grade in that respect because of location.

Why not look at York and Toulouse instead?

[Smudger06]

1 minute ago, Chrispmartha said:

Why are you talking to yourself?

I'm quoting myself. Not talking to myself. It's a reference point. 

[Smudger06]

1 minute ago, Chrispmartha said:

It is to some extent because those clubs will have got a higher grade in that respect because of location.

Why not look at York and Toulouse instead?

Naw because RL is traditionally played in those areas. No breakthrough required regarding community building. Not on the level of London or Newcastle at least. 

[phiggins]

1 hour ago, Chrispmartha said:

People are relating catchment area criteria to mean attendances in that catchment area, which IIRC the grading handbook doesn’t mention that in that section of the grades, attendance figures relate to the fandom section.

Catchment is more related to community work isn’t it?

The catchment area points are written in the community section of the document, but the points awarded are purely based on the population of the council borough that the stadium sits in, divided by the number of clubs within that borough. There is nothing a club can do to affect that score and it’s also not necessarily reflective of the actual catchment area that a club can target. 

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, Smudger06 said:

Naw because RL is traditionally played in those areas. No breakthrough required regarding community building. Not on the level of London or Newcastle at least. 

But they are not areas currently in the top tier.

if London or Newcastle can get their house in order this metric will help them

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, phiggins said:

The catchment area points are written in the community section of the document, but the points awarded are purely based on the population of the council borough that the stadium sits in, divided by the number of clubs within that borough. There is nothing a club can do to affect that score and it’s also not necessarily reflective of the actual catchment area that a club can target. 

I know and I’ve explained why i think that is a good thing, it has however ###### all to do with attendance figures in the gradings, so going on about the two as if they are is pointless 

[Smudger06]

We can be certain SL is gonna have collateral damage on this kind of scale moving forward so it's a waiting game again its sad when its to be that way.

Bradford Bulls......

Paris Saint-Germain........

Gateshead Thunder......

Huddersfield-Sheffield Giants ....

Widnes Vikings......

Harlequins ........

Celtic Crusaders.....

Toronto Wolfpack......

All absolutely massive super league clubs if I remember rightly......

[Chrispmartha]

2 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

We can be certain SL is gonna have collateral damage on this kind of scale moving forward so it's a waiting game again its sad when its to be that way.

Bradford Bulls......

Paris Saint-Germain........

Gateshead Thunder......

Huddersfield-Sheffield Giants ....

Widnes Vikings......

Harlequins ........

Celtic Crusaders.....

Toronto Wolfpack......

All absolutely massive super league clubs if I remember rightly......

The point is to not have collateral damage again because of the grades, or are you just dismissing all the other metrics to try construct an argument?

[phiggins]

22 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

I know and I’ve explained why i think that is a good thing, it has however ###### all to do with attendance figures in the gradings, so going on about the two as if they are is pointless 

My post was in response to the question of whether it is in relation to community work. It is not, it is a completely standalone score. 
 

It’s the metric that has been questioned most even amongst supporters of the overall system. If you think it’s valid, you’re probably in danger of becoming an evangelist of this system and all it entails, just like some people are with P&R

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

48 minutes ago, phiggins said:

The catchment area points are written in the community section of the document, but the points awarded are purely based on the population of the council borough that the stadium sits in, divided by the number of clubs within that borough. There is nothing a club can do to affect that score and it’s also not necessarily reflective of the actual catchment area that a club can target. 

It's actually only the number of Tier 1 and 2 clubs so does throw up the possibility that should L1 continue, if one of the WMDC clubs ended up in L1, all 3 would gain 0.5pts and similarly for the Kirklees clubs 2 going down to L1 would gain all 3 an additional 0.5pts.....

[Chrispmartha]

39 minutes ago, phiggins said:

My post was in response to the question of whether it is in relation to community work. It is not, it is a completely standalone score. 
 

It’s the metric that has been questioned most even amongst supporters of the overall system. If you think it’s valid, you’re probably in danger of becoming an evangelist of this system and all it entails, just like some people are with P&R

I personally don’t think it’s a great metric but i can see why they would put it in there

[RP London]

3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Thanks RP, that's the evidence I was referring to in my discussion with Tommy re Catchment, how much more facts and figures do I need to say a return of 13,000 is pretty darn poor out if 812,000?

It's not about return though is it, that's not what this is about.. you know that because it's been gone over so many times..  

[del capo]

7 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

It's actually only the number of Tier 1 and 2 clubs so does throw up the possibility that should L1 continue, if one of the WMDC clubs ended up in L1, all 3 would gain 0.5pts and similarly for the Kirklees clubs 2 going down to L1 would gain all 3 an additional 0.5pts.....

Correct.

And if Leigh  ever got that independence from Wigan Metro they seek both clubs would lose half a point. Not a problem for the Warriors, but would put Leigh much closer to Championship rugby. Just saying......

Notice how cleverly that 130k population figure was selected?

[RP London]

3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Bloody hell RP, with your input curiosity got the better of me and I looked at Sheffield's population 746.000 you are worse than Leeds that will be music to Chrismartha's earhols.

I know.. I knew our population and I know the issues eagles have.

I'm sure you've also noticed I havent whined about our grading as I think it's pretty much spot on. 

[phiggins]

9 minutes ago, del capo said:

Correct.

And if Leigh  ever got that independence from Wigan Metro they seek both clubs would lose half a point. Not a problem for the Warriors, but would put Leigh much closer to Championship rugby. Just saying......

Notice how cleverly that 130k population figure was selected?

Yes, the club I support, Leigh, benefit from this metric and how it is measured. I still think it’s ridiculous and should be removed though. 

[del capo]

The original ' Catchment ' pillar  was disliked by many especially the grassroots as it measured nothing in itself. Many pro clubs promote activity outside their  own political admin boundaries and this was seemingly of little importance.

The Community Board sought changes and were to an extent successful. Firstly the name  and secondly the philosophy became more rooted in the game itself.

Half a point came off finance and was put into  the metric to reflect Foundation work, grassroots being the major beneficiary there. No surprise that clubs at the top scored high on their annual foundation incomes - Leeds at £857k , Warrington at £463k and Wigan at £453k for instance whilst London managed just £3k and Keighley Cougars foundation got struck off a couple of years ago .And this got spent in improving the lot of many as well as of course actively spreading the faith of rugby league.

By the way if any of you keyboard colleagues want a bash at influencing decision making I see an advert for volunteers for positions on the Community Board as it seeks to refresh  itself in line with UK Sport governance advice. At least one of the positions put you on the RFL Council with a vote to cast....

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

On 27/10/2023 at 15:50, Jill Halfpenny fan said:

How's about this, Widnes is part of the borough of Halton. The population of Halton appears to be around the 128,000 mark.  Another couple of thousand new arrivals and the population increases above 130,000. Regardless of any interest in rugby league the new arrivals give Widnes another 0.5 point. Its ridiculous but its quite possible. 

 

If they continue to use (2021) census population figures the population of Halton could quadruple before the next one in 2031 but you'd still be stuck on 0.5pts.....

[Harry Stottle]

Just listened to Tony Sutton he says along the lines of "clubs can see how they are going on their own score but they can't see how anybody else is scoring, so they know where they have to be to be a SL club and that is better for the clubs so they can plan with a little more certainty" what a load of bolux how is that more visible than a league ladder that everyone can see including us fans, if you can't see what the opposition is doing?

[Chrispmartha]

2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Just listened to Tony Sutton he says along the lines of "clubs can see how they are going on their own score but they can't see how anybody else is scoring, so they know where they have to be to be a SL club and that is better for the clubs so they can plan with a little more certainty" what a load of bolux how is that more visible than a league ladder that everyone can see including us fans, if you can't see what the opposition is doing?

The clubs can ultimately only control what they can control if other clubs do better then they will deserve their place within the system that has been approved over the club that hasnt done enough

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Just listened to Tony Sutton he says along the lines of "clubs can see how they are going on their own score but they can't see how anybody else is scoring, so they know where they have to be to be a SL club and that is better for the clubs so they can plan with a little more certainty" what a load of bolux how is that more visible than a league ladder that everyone can see including us fans, if you can't see what the opposition is doing?

Because if you can make an A Grade then you're guaranteed a SL spot and don't need to worry about relegation?

[Barley Mow]

4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Just listened to Tony Sutton he says along the lines of "clubs can see how they are going on their own score but they can't see how anybody else is scoring, so they know where they have to be to be a SL club and that is better for the clubs so they can plan with a little more certainty" what a load of bolux how is that more visible than a league ladder that everyone can see including us fans, if you can't see what the opposition is doing?

I picked up on that as well. He didn't seem to accept that clubs wouldn't find out whether they are in SL til later than at present (because they won't know other clubs' positions until the grades are released post-season).

I was disappointed Tanya Arnold didn't press him on it.

[Barley Mow]

9 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Because if you can make an A Grade then you're guaranteed a SL spot and don't need to worry about relegation?

The clubs around the 12th/13th place are unlikely to be A grade though (at least in the first few years).

They will be B's - they will know how they're doing compared to last year, but can't know if they are promoted until later than at present because they won't know if other clubs have improved their grade.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Barley Mow