England eye answers over 2024 Samoan test series

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, BristolDevonCharlie said:

I am talking internationals Dave, as mentioned above, and on TV. You don't often go to a game - when you live 300 miles away - unless you are a fan already.

If you were a non-RL person turning in to the Huddersfield Tonga game... awful look. Without Sky these people cannot watch much Super League. 

Also I was referring to NRL-style pitch markings. 

Yes, most RL people couldn't care about these things. That is the whole point of me mentioning them.

As someone regularly fighting Rugby League's corner in a majority Union area, I am just reporting things I hear and see. 

Why are Union fans moaning about no numbers on pitches in SL when their English comp doesn't have them, but the SH comp does (identical to RL)?

Edited December 14, 2023 by Dave T

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Big Picture said:

The heartland RL fans just don't get how small time the game's normal practice looks to outsiders and how it conforms to the negative stereotypes about the game, because it's what they've always known and accepted.  The fact that every other team sport always has uniform field/court/rink markings within the same competition so that's what the public will naturally expect doesn't seem to register with them.

Back in the first few years of SL there was a big effort to ensure correct field markings, at least to the extent possible within the limitations of existing English venues.

That can be seen in match videos from back then, but it didn't last and they went back to the same old, same old.  Likely the game's administrators decided after Sky cut the rights payments back due to low ratings it was a frill they didn't really need.

We have uniform markings. We have touchline, goallines, halfway lines, 10m, 20m, 30m, 40m, etc. 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Click said:

I don't know why you keep bringing up pitch markings, if we were playing our England games on that pitch Toronto used then I would understand but the games Vs Tonga had RL pitch markings.

It's one of the most niche complaints we have in RL. 

The main difference here is that the NRL have numbers on lines and we don't. Exactly the same as the RU Prem and Super Rugby. 

I understand people having a preference, but it isn't any kind of issue that is making any difference to anyone. 

[Click]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

It's one of the most niche complaints we have in RL. 

The main difference here is that the NRL have numbers on lines and we don't. Exactly the same as the RU Prem and Super Rugby. 

I understand people having a preference, but it isn't any kind of issue that is making any difference to anyone. 

The UK has never had a big culture for huge over-the-top pitch markings, I don't see the need for a huge 20/40 etc to be written on the field, I'd prefer those foam things on the touchline that mark out distances that I assume we have/use still.. 

I guess having a painted advert/sponsor on the field can make the match feel bigger, which I think we have for the CCF/GF but has mostly been replaced with computer generated stuff just on the field for TV.

[Dave T]

Just now, Click said:

The UK has never had a big culture for huge over-the-top pitch markings, I don't see the need for a huge 20/40 etc to be written on the field, I'd prefer those foam things on the touchline that mark out distances that I assume we have/use still.. 

I guess having a painted advert/sponsor on the field can make the match feel bigger, which I think we have for the CCF/GF but has mostly been replaced with computer generated stuff just on the field for TV.

I think it all looks nice when you have the pitch decoration, but that's all it is. 

In reality, numbers aren't standard across RL or Union, so I'm not sure why anyone would think it is poor from SL not to have them. 

[BristolDevonCharlie]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

Why are Union fans moaning about no numbers on pitches in SL when their English comp doesn't have them, but the SH comp does (identical to RL)?

I don't think Union / casual / South-West sports fans would moan about pitch markings in Super League - because they are not watching Super League. As I said before, this is about internationals - the gateway drug of Rugby League!

As you acknowledged earlier, it is all the little things that add up. Having just the basic lines on a field is absolutely fine. However, it does look a bit strange if you cannot denote what any of these lines mean or function as. Its a wishlist item. If we want to attract people to the sport at least tell them what the lines on the pitch mean, so they can follow a 40-20 or know when a side is up to halfway etc, like in the NRL, NFL, etc. If you can't write numbers on maybe do intermittent lines on the 40 to acknowledge the difference, or something like that. 

But as I allude to, other things like having an opposition to play next year are far more important! Give the irregulars something to watch on terrestrial TV. Samoa at home or get involved in the European Champs instead of Knights. 

Edited December 14, 2023 by BristolDevonCharlie

[Click]

24 minutes ago, BristolDevonCharlie said:

I don't think Union / casual / South-West sports fans would moan about pitch markings in Super League - because they are not watching Super League. As I said before, this is about internationals - the gateway drug of Rugby League!

As you acknowledged earlier, it is all the little things that add up. Having 11 lines on a field is absolutely fine. However, it does look a bit strange if you cannot denote what any of these lines mean or function as. Its a wishlist item. If we want to attract people to the sport at least tell them what the lines on the pitch mean, so they can follow a 40-20 or know when a side is up to halfway etc, like in the NRL, NFL, etc. If you can't write numbers on maybe do intermittent lines on the 40 to acknowledge the difference, or something like that. 

But as I allude to, other things like having an opposition to play next year are far more important! Give the irregulars something to watch on terrestrial TV. Samoa at home or get involved in the European Champs instead of Knights. 

What was the difference in pitch markings for England Tonga compared to regular SL?

Aren't people able to work out what evenly spaced lines on a 100m pitch could mean? There usually are markings on the sidelines to go alongside also. Does any UK sport put numbers on the field anyway?

[Gomersall]

4 hours ago, MattSantos said:

I just don't care about where the ref is from and neither do normal people.

Not even when it appears the ref/VR is favouring his home nation?

[Gomersall]

3 hours ago, JohnM said:

controlling the games in line with an agreed set of common rules that all players are briefed on.

And how close are we to getting that John? We get further away from “international rules” with each passing season. The only reason we can get a halfway house is because we usually bow to NRL rules and interpretations.

[Gomersall]

25 minutes ago, Click said:

What was the difference in pitch markings for England Tonga compared to regular SL?

Aren't people able to work out what evenly spaced lines on a 100m pitch could mean? There usually are markings on the sidelines to go alongside also. Does any UK sport put numbers on the field anyway?

When you have a 40/20 and a 20/40 rule, indicating which lines are relevant might come in handy IMO.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Gomersall

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, BristolDevonCharlie said:

I don't think Union / casual / South-West sports fans would moan about pitch markings in Super League - because they are not watching Super League. As I said before, this is about internationals - the gateway drug of Rugby League!

As you acknowledged earlier, it is all the little things that add up. Having just the basic lines on a field is absolutely fine. However, it does look a bit strange if you cannot denote what any of these lines mean or function as. Its a wishlist item. If we want to attract people to the sport at least tell them what the lines on the pitch mean, so they can follow a 40-20 or know when a side is up to halfway etc, like in the NRL, NFL, etc. If you can't write numbers on maybe do intermittent lines on the 40 to acknowledge the difference, or something like that. 

But as I allude to, other things like having an opposition to play next year are far more important! Give the irregulars something to watch on terrestrial TV. Samoa at home or get involved in the European Champs instead of Knights. 

Other sports don't have writing on the pitch telling fans what each line is, why do these neutrals expect it in RL? 

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Dave T

[Click]

12 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

When you have a 40/20 and a 20/40 rule, indicating which lines are relevant might come in handy IMO.

They usually do have some kind of indication, just not numbers painted on the actual pitch itself

[Dave T]

16 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

When you have a 40/20 and a 20/40 rule, indicating which lines are relevant might come in handy IMO.

Maybe red paint? That's a good idea. 

[Dave T]

Whenever this conversation comes up, it always comes down to a complete lack of pragmatism. We use shared grounds which sometimes mean compromise. We aren't always able to splash paint all over football pitches. Or able to have maximum sized pitches. 

What people don't appreciate is that the alternative is that RL just can't be played in many many grounds in the UK if they had their way. 

[Big Picture]

3 hours ago, Click said:

.... the games Vs Tonga had RL pitch markings.

The only reason you think that is because you're used to the small time, half-assed way British RL habitually does things.

Every International rule book I can find online includes a plan of the field and states clearly that "the Plan forms part of these Laws".  And that Plan shows solid, equidistant lines with numbers.

None of the three matches had that, and one didn't even have all solid lines, four of the lines were broken lines instead.  The latter is because despite being played in a stadium which can accommodate a full 100 metre field of play it was less than that, and the organizers were too lazy/incompetent/afraid to ask the stadium management to meet the game's requirements.

That kind of inconsistency is something which viewers and spectators will never see in any other sport and it looks terrible. To the outsiders @BristolDevonCharliewas talking about, it just confirms their negative view of the game.

Quite simply, making do the way the British game has always done isn't good enough.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Big Picture

[Wellsy4HullFC]

It would be nice if the pitches were decorated. But as most clubs share a pitch with a football team, it's not possible. It's been acknowledged it's not the biggest issue, and it's also been acknowledged that there's a reason it can't be done... so why are people still talking about it?

As for 40-20s, every line has a number at the touchline denoting the metres it is; the 40m line has an additional red line on it, and IIRC the 10 and 30 are dashed lines compared to the solid lines of the 20, 50, tryline and touchlines.

It's really not that difficult, and if it is that difficult you probably would struggle understanding the concept of a 40-20 anyway!

[Wellsy4HullFC]

36 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Other sports don't have writing on the pitch telling fans what each line is, why do these neutrals expect it in RL? 

 

I could really do with "PENALTY AREA" written on a football pitch because I'm not sure where it is. Not too mention the semi circles: what are they for?

Why is there a "box"?

And what's that big circle in the middle for?

[Dave T]

6 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I could really do with "PENALTY AREA" written on a football pitch because I'm not sure where it is. Not too mention the semi circles: what are they for?

Why is there a "box"?

And what's that big circle in the middle for?

If I'm honest, I think the sport for a couple of posters here may be darts. 

[ATLANTISMAN]

Having hired the company that used to do this (Pitch markings) Linemark UK fantastic bunch however seems nowadays to have died a death as everything on TV can be computer generated.

From memory France v England in Toulouse 2008 Gillette logos and yardage was around 2K and that was 15 years ago 

 

Paup

[JohnM]

1 hour ago, Gomersall said:

And how close are we to getting that John? We get further away from “international rules” with each passing season. The only reason we can get a halfway house is because we usually bow to NRL rules and interpretations.

No close enough. Just thinking it might be better for the sport overall rather than trying to find refs from a "neutral" country 

[Gomersall]

6 minutes ago, JohnM said:

No close enough. Just thinking it might be better for the sport overall rather than trying to find refs from a "neutral" country 

Maybe if we had a better spread of refs then the rules might have to be more aligned than “there’s or ours”.

[JohnM]

14 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

Maybe if we had a better spread of refs then the rules might have to be more aligned than “there’s or ours”.

Yes. This forum should be prime recruitment territory.

[BristolDevonCharlie]

2 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

It would be nice if the pitches were decorated. But as most clubs share a pitch with a football team, it's not possible. It's been acknowledged it's not the biggest issue, and it's also been acknowledged that there's a reason it can't be done... so why are people still talking about it?

As for 40-20s, every line has a number at the touchline denoting the metres it is; the 40m line has an additional red line on it, and IIRC the 10 and 30 are dashed lines compared to the solid lines of the 20, 50, tryline and touchlines.

It's really not that difficult, and if it is that difficult you probably would struggle understanding the concept of a 40-20 anyway!

Huddersfield vs Tonga (and maybe more in that series) had no additional red lines on 40 metre lines and broken lines (as mentioned by @Big Picture).

Preach to the choir in Super League, by all means. But for internationals step it up please RFL, and just adhere to commonly held international norms, and the sport's own guidelines, as a bare minimum.

Edited December 14, 2023 by BristolDevonCharlie

[Dave T]

10 hours ago, BristolDevonCharlie said:

Huddersfield vs Tonga (and maybe more in that series) had no additional red lines on 40 metre lines and broken lines (as mentioned by @Big Picture).

Preach to the choir in Super League, by all means. But for internationals step it up please RFL, and just adhere to commonly held international norms, and the sport's own guidelines, as a bare minimum.

I think it's fair enough as an RL fan being frustrated about stuff like this. 

But, please, explain to me again how this is any kind of issue for people watching their first RL game on TV, or Union fans, who also have no numbers or red lines. 

At what point do they get frustrated by things they won't even be aware of? 

[Damien]

7 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think it's fair enough as an RL fan being frustrated about stuff like this. 

But, please, explain to me again how this is any kind of issue for people watching their first RL game on TV, or Union fans, who also have no numbers or red lines. 

At what point do they get frustrated by things they won't even be aware of? 

I'd say many RL fans don't notice either.