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Rob Burrow Award - no more Harry Sunderland Trophy

gingerjon
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Damien

Damien

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I simply don't know enough about Harry Sunderland and his achievements in the sport.  If others do then I am happy to bow to their greater knowledge, which I assume is well researched and thorough. 

I am just not sure that the week that his name has been removed from the Grand Final player of the match trophy is also the time to publicly downplay his achievements.

Shall we also say his mother was a hamster and his father smelt of elderberries.

You made the bold claim that he was a primary driver for the development of the sport in France.

I can't see anyone else making bold claims like that, just that it is a little more nuanced than you claimed.

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gingerjon
gingerjon

Confirmed on Sky  

glossop saint
glossop saint

He can't have had that much of an impact, you still don't know his name! 😉

Rowan
Rowan

Like Martyn I am a member of the RLWBA (for more than 45 years) and when the suggestion was put to me I was also a bit reluctant to make the change purely on the grounds that it has a part in the spor

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Dunbar

Dunbar

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Damien said:

You made the bold claim that he was a primary driver for the development of the sport in France.

I can't see anyone else making bold claims like that, just that it is a little more nuanced than you claimed.

It's not my claim.  Are you saying he didn't help to establish the game in France?

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Damien

Damien

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

It's not my claim.  Are you saying he didn't help to establish the game in France?

Is this a different Dunbar? 

4 hours ago, Dunbar said:

You don't think being a primary driver for the development of the sport in one of the four major Rugby League playing nations is having an impact on the sport?

Again you are the one that made the above claim, which I think we all assumed was well researched, thorough and one that you presumably agree with. I was merely challenging this. I would also say that helping to establish the game in France is also quite different to being a primary driver. I'd reserve a honour like that for someone like Jean Galia. 

I certainly don't think that the ARL and RFL organising an exhibition game in Paris, which the RFL had been looking at for a decade, makes Sunderland a primary driver due to his role at the ARL. I certainly don't think it is enough to highlight as an achievement in this renaming discussion and for me his role is being overplayed.

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Dunbar

Dunbar

Posted
Posted
Just now, Damien said:

Is this a different Dunbar? 

Again you are the one that made the above claim, which I think we all assumed was well researched, thorough and one that you presumably agree with. I was merely challenging this. I would also say that helping to establish the game in France is also quite different to being a primary driver. I'd reserve a honour like that for someone like Jean Galia. 

I certainly don't think that the ARL and RFL organising an exhibition game in Paris, which the RFL had been looking at for a decade, makes Sunderland a primary driver due to his role at the ARL. I certainly don't think it is enough to highlight as an achievement in this renaming discussion and for me his role is being overplayed.

When I said it wasn't my claim, I meant that it is stated on multiple web sites covering the history of French Rugby League that he played an important part in establishing Rugby League in France.

In all seriousness, could you not work that out?

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Damien

Damien

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

When I said it wasn't my claim, I meant that it is stated on multiple web sites covering the history of French Rugby League that he played an important part in establishing Rugby League in France.

In all seriousness, could you not work that out?

In all seriousness its hard to know between your shifting of the goalposts, condescending replies, and one minute saying you know nothing about Sunderland then the next saying its based on research. Pity you couldn't have a proper conversion on this rather than rather than spitting your dummy out when your claim is challenged. Each to their own I guess.

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Dunbar

Dunbar

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Damien said:

In all seriousness its hard to know between your shifting of the goalposts, condescending replies, and one minute saying you know nothing about Sunderland then the next saying its based on research. Pity you couldn't have a proper conversion on this rather than rather than spitting your dummy out when your claim is challenged. Each to their own I guess.

I am not prepared to play these games and so I will state my point again and then leave it to you to have the last word if you want it.

1. I am not a scholer on the career of Harry Sunderland. 

2. Which is why I am happy to take the statements across multiple sites that he played a key part in establishing the game in France on face value.

3. I see that as an achievement worthy of note (my first response on this thread).

4. I don't see why we should look to denigrate his achievements in the week his name has been removed from one of the trophies given in his name.

I am not spitting my dummy, being condescending or shifting the goalposts.

As I say, over to you for the last word, I have made my point.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Padge

Padge

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Damien said:

Obviously Super Greed should be in any renaming.

You could make a rock yawn.

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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Padge

Padge

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Damien said:

Whoosh. It was a joke, obviously went way over your head.

Nope. It is just the most boring joke on this forum.

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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Chrispmartha

Chrispmartha

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

Is Forgerty a member of the body who awards the trophy?

And no-one is going to forget any previous winners because the trophy has changed names, that's just a nonsense argument!

It’s probably the weakest argument to put forward isn’t it.

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RigbyLuger

RigbyLuger

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

It’s probably the weakest argument to put forward isn’t it.

It's almost strawman stuff now. Everyone knows that, had Rob Burrow not had the diagnosis he had, this probably wouldn't have happened, but, it's not as if he's randomly been chosen for this to be named after him. I feel some against the change want to say that, but can't.

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