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Clubs chasing loop hole players


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#1 East Coast Tiger

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 12:49 AM

Ads from this week's RLCM

______________________________________________________________

Workington seek players for 2011
Workington Town UK are seeking Australian, New Zealand and Pacific Island players for the 2011 season. Workington Town play in National League 2 in England. Players must have European birthright, passports or Kolpac players [Fiji, Tonga, Samoa]. Interested players please contact Coach Gary Charlton susancharlo@aol.com with details and playing experience.

_______________________________________________________________

South Wales Scorpions
The South Wales Scorpions are looking for British qualified players via ancestry or are passport holders and or alternatively European passport holders from Australia, New Zealand and the Pacific Islands to send in playing c.v's for review to the South Wales Scorpions for the 2011 season.
The Scorpions are a brand new club who are in their first season in the professional ranks based in South Wales competing in the English Championship One competion playing games against the likes of Oldham, Workington, Swinton and are currently in a play-off position in their debut season and are looking to strengthen in 2011.

The Scorpions are looking at recruiting three players from the southern hemisphere for the 2011 season. Only players with QLD Cup, Toyota Cup,NSW Cup or Bundaberg Red Cup will be reviewed. We are looking for a half, centre/backrower and a front rower.
Contact
Anthony Seibold
South Wales Scorpions, Head Coach
anthony.seibold@cymrurl.com

_______________________________________________________________

It seems hard to believe clubs feel the need to do this, especially really small budget clubs like these. What it suggests to me is that so long as there are loop holes for any club at any level they will abuse them to bring in Australian and NZ players. The only way to stop it is to tighten the rules right up at all levels.

#2 1976PMJwires

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 06:38 AM

QUOTE (East Coast Tiger @ Jul 2 2010, 01:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ads from this week's RLCM

______________________________________________________________

Workington seek players for 2011
Workington Town UK are seeking Australian, New Zealand and Pacific Island players for the 2011 season. Workington Town play in National League 2 in England. Players must have European birthright, passports or Kolpac players [Fiji, Tonga, Samoa]. Interested players please contact Coach Gary Charlton susancharlo@aol.com with details and playing experience.

_______________________________________________________________

South Wales Scorpions
The South Wales Scorpions are looking for British qualified players via ancestry or are passport holders and or alternatively European passport holders from Australia, New Zealand and the Pacific Islands to send in playing c.v's for review to the South Wales Scorpions for the 2011 season.
The Scorpions are a brand new club who are in their first season in the professional ranks based in South Wales competing in the English Championship One competion playing games against the likes of Oldham, Workington, Swinton and are currently in a play-off position in their debut season and are looking to strengthen in 2011.

The Scorpions are looking at recruiting three players from the southern hemisphere for the 2011 season. Only players with QLD Cup, Toyota Cup,NSW Cup or Bundaberg Red Cup will be reviewed. We are looking for a half, centre/backrower and a front rower.
Contact
Anthony Seibold
South Wales Scorpions, Head Coach
anthony.seibold@cymrurl.com

_______________________________________________________________

It seems hard to believe clubs feel the need to do this, especially really small budget clubs like these. What it suggests to me is that so long as there are loop holes for any club at any level they will abuse them to bring in Australian and NZ players. The only way to stop it is to tighten the rules right up at all levels.




Indeed we do need to stop it.


A big acheivement was our border control, stopping criminals coming over and stopping work visa's.
(however small the offence was, they were stopped, we don't want your criminals)

#3 East Coast Tiger

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 06:53 AM

QUOTE (1976PMJwires @ Jul 2 2010, 06:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Indeed we do need to stop it.


A big acheivement was our border control, stopping criminals coming over and stopping work visa's.
(however small the offence was, they were stopped, we don't want your criminals)

Not quite true. If Bradford had got its way it would have signed Bird, Hull would have got Crocker, Huddersfield would have got Carney etc. So the clubs do want these "criminals". But the UKBA does not.

#4 1976PMJwires

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 07:04 AM

QUOTE (East Coast Tiger @ Jul 2 2010, 07:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not quite true. If Bradford had got its way it would have signed Bird, Hull would have got Crocker, Huddersfield would have got Carney etc. So the clubs do want these "criminals". But the UKBA does not.



Of course UKBA counts, otherwise we'd be over run by criminals just like OZ.



#5 East Coast Tiger

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 07:14 AM

QUOTE (1976PMJwires @ Jul 2 2010, 08:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Of course UKBA counts, otherwise we'd be over run by criminals just like OZ.

Paleaasina, Pryce, Reardon, Bailey, Walker, Raynor, Cockayne, Hock. Seems like you've got plenty anyway. And if you want to look at actual crime stats I'll take Australia over the UK any day. The point is, English clubs are still desperate to sign NRL, and even second teir players, any way they can.

#6 West Country Eagle

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 08:00 AM

To be fair to the Scorpions, this year they have only used one overseas player - and he has Welsh parents. It's not as if they're packing the whole side with Kolpaks - 90%-plus of the team will still be local Welsh lads. They could probably do with a little bit of experience in the side to take them to the next level.

Workington have no excuse though.
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#7 Dave T

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 08:12 AM

QUOTE (West Country Eagle @ Jul 2 2010, 09:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To be fair to the Scorpions, this year they have only used one overseas player - and he has Welsh parents. It's not as if they're packing the whole side with Kolpaks - 90%-plus of the team will still be local Welsh lads. They could probably do with a little bit of experience in the side to take them to the next level.

Workington have no excuse though.
Yep I agree. When Cumbrian clubs are boasting about the amount of talent that they have in that region, and that they should be in SL, it is hard to stomach when you see notices like this.

At least the Scorpions one seems to be targeting three areas, whereas Town's doesn't even specify positions.


#8 Futtocks

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 08:21 AM

QUOTE (East Coast Tiger @ Jul 2 2010, 08:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Paleaasina, Pryce, Reardon, Bailey, Walker, Raynor, Cockayne, Hock. Seems like you've got plenty anyway. And if you want to look at actual crime stats I'll take Australia over the UK any day. The point is, English clubs are still desperate to sign NRL, and even second teir players, any way they can.


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#9 Steve Smith

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 08:27 AM

QUOTE (Dave T @ Jul 2 2010, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yep I agree. When Cumbrian clubs are boasting about the amount of talent that they have in that region, and that they should be in SL, it is hard to stomach when you see notices like this.

At least the Scorpions one seems to be targeting three areas, whereas Town's doesn't even specify positions.


But of course, it's perfectly acceptable for SL clubs to pack their squads with overseas players, whilst simultaneously boasting about the amount of local talent they're developing... Does this suggest that any team looking for overseas players doesn't belong in SL?

#10 Dave T

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 08:40 AM

QUOTE (Steve Smith @ Jul 2 2010, 09:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But of course, it's perfectly acceptable for SL clubs to pack their squads with overseas players, whilst simultaneously boasting about the amount of local talent they're developing... Does this suggest that any team looking for overseas players doesn't belong in SL?

Nope, you will also see plenty of threads criticising SL overseas signings.

#11 East Coast Tiger

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 08:49 AM

QUOTE (Futtocks @ Jul 2 2010, 09:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
WHHHHOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSHHHHH!

I know what he's getting at. It's another poor attempt to suggest Australia is full of crooks because a small percentage of early settlers originally came as convicts 220 years ago. It's hilarious.

#12 Steve Smith

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 08:59 AM

QUOTE (Dave T @ Jul 2 2010, 09:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Nope, you will also see plenty of threads criticising SL overseas signings.


But your point was that a club like Workington looking to sign overseas players doesn't belong in SL. It's almost compulsory for SL clubs, it would seem. I'm surprised that one of the criteria for a license doesn't involve signing half a dozen kolpacs.

#13 Derwent

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 09:11 AM

QUOTE (Dave T @ Jul 2 2010, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yep I agree. When Cumbrian clubs are boasting about the amount of talent that they have in that region, and that they should be in SL, it is hard to stomach when you see notices like this.

At least the Scorpions one seems to be targeting three areas, whereas Town's doesn't even specify positions.


I have not seen Town make any such claims anywhere.

For your info, why should Town bother running an academy and developing players ? They have been doing so for the last couple of years only for a 'better off' club in the county to announce they are setting one up for next year and steal the players away as they can pay them more. Money down the drain.

Furthermore, Town's squad is heavily based on local players. On Sunday when they beat South Wales the Town 17 contained 14 Cumbrian players, 1 Australian who has been here 6 years and is married to a local girl and is permanently settled in the town, 1 Australian quota player and 1 Scottish player. Hardly overkill on import players.

Financial restrictions mean that clubs can not afford to fly over loads of overseas players at this level anyway, my information is Town are looking for 1, possibly 2, players but have made the advert generic in order to see what applicants they can get before narrowing down their options.
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#14 Derwent

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 09:14 AM

QUOTE (West Country Eagle @ Jul 2 2010, 09:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To be fair to the Scorpions, this year they have only used one overseas player - and he has Welsh parents. It's not as if they're packing the whole side with Kolpaks - 90%-plus of the team will still be local Welsh lads. They could probably do with a little bit of experience in the side to take them to the next level.

Workington have no excuse though.


Yes, Town have no excuse for only having 1 overseas player (Jarrad Stack) as well. Shame on them. Still, don't let facts get in the way eh ?
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#15 Dave T

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 09:25 AM

QUOTE (Steve Smith @ Jul 2 2010, 09:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But your point was that a club like Workington looking to sign overseas players doesn't belong in SL. It's almost compulsory for SL clubs, it would seem. I'm surprised that one of the criteria for a license doesn't involve signing half a dozen kolpacs.
No, that wasn't my point at all.


#16 Dave T

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 09:30 AM

QUOTE (Derwent @ Jul 2 2010, 10:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have not seen Town make any such claims anywhere.

For your info, why should Town bother running an academy and developing players ? They have been doing so for the last couple of years only for a 'better off' club in the county to announce they are setting one up for next year and steal the players away as they can pay them more. Money down the drain.

Furthermore, Town's squad is heavily based on local players. On Sunday when they beat South Wales the Town 17 contained 14 Cumbrian players, 1 Australian who has been here 6 years and is married to a local girl and is permanently settled in the town, 1 Australian quota player and 1 Scottish player. Hardly overkill on import players.

Financial restrictions mean that clubs can not afford to fly over loads of overseas players at this level anyway, my information is Town are looking for 1, possibly 2, players but have made the advert generic in order to see what applicants they can get before narrowing down their options.
Apologies, some clumsy terminology used by me in my first line, it isn't the clubs that make these claims, it is the fans (and not just Cumbrian fans btw).

TBH, the number of overseas players frustrates me, whether that is my club Warrington, or whether it is a club advertising for overseas players through a loophole.

We often hear people claim that areas are hotspots for RL and youth development, yet still these clubs rely on many overseas players. Wigan certainly don't deserve any criticism for their youth development, yet even they have a large nucleus of overseas players (although they are becoming less prominent). Even Leeds etc are the same, with some rather average overseas players in their ranks.

People overstate the youth development thing, I don't think any club can rely on their local talent, yet we always get told that certain area are hotbeds, when in reality Cumbria probably couldn't provide a full team of Cumbrian talent that would compete in SL. It was more a reality check, when we often hear how much talent we have there yet we see ads like this.


#17 Brigg Rover

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 09:31 AM

This quote system certainly seems to be a complete joke. All sorts of players don't seem to count on it. Former Aussie prop Mick Vella doesn't count on it! How barmy is that.

Still when we stop promotion and relegation all these problems of clubs signing loads of foreign players will go away dry.gif

#18 Steve Smith

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 10:10 AM

QUOTE (Dave T @ Jul 2 2010, 10:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No, that wasn't my point at all.


So the issue of a club claiming they should be in SL and at the same time chasing overseas players isn't a problem to you then? I'm not trying to be awkward, but that's pretty much what you said.


#19 Dave T

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 10:14 AM

QUOTE (Steve Smith @ Jul 2 2010, 11:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So the issue of a club claiming they should be in SL and at the same time chasing overseas players isn't a problem to you then? I'm not trying to be awkward, but that's pretty much what you said.
My point was that we often get told that there is so much talent that there should be Cumbrian representation in Super League. Not that there are loads of fans, or that the stadiums are great and there are loads of money men, simply that there is loads of talent playing the game.

If this is the case, why are clubs looking to take advantage of loopholes?

I am not saying that they don't deserve a SL spot, as many SL clubs are no better.


#20 The Parksider

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 10:51 AM

QUOTE (Dave T @ Jul 2 2010, 11:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My point was that we often get told that there is so much talent that there should be Cumbrian representation in Super League. Not that there are loads of fans, or that the stadiums are great and there are loads of money men, simply that there is loads of talent playing the game. If this is the case, why are clubs looking to take advantage of loopholes?


Derwent answered that with the facts - see above. Workington and Whitehaven do use a lot of cumbrian players in their NL sides, and workington seem to be chasing one or possibly two overseas quality players to boost their side - maybe in key positions).

Workington have been stuck in the division of death for some time now and they probably feel they need to get out of it before NL1 gets extended and NL2 gets dumped to amateur, I don't know, but there are probably other angles to this Dave??.

If there's a boast that Cumbria has the talent then we need the facts, for instance how many cumbrians are playing first team in SL and how many young cumbrians are in SL acedemies?? Enough such that if you add the customary 8 overseas pro players to the total do you have an SL quality team with plenty of young lads lined up - maybe you do maybe you don't.

But also consider before suggesting that Cumbria could not find 17 professional SL quality cumbrian born players to make up a SL home grown side, how any Warrington side would look if it was only Warrington born.

Could Salford even field a 5 a side soccer team with salford and manchester born professional RL players.

RL is massively short of quality players, that's why they are imported across the board, if we believe clubs should "grow their own" I can only think that given the size of the Cumbrian Junior RL set up, and how much bigger it would be if there were an SL set up stimulating it's growth, it would be quite a production line.

So maybe unfair to make remarks about the numbers of quality cumbrians - that's a problem for most clubs even those at SL level.......




Edited by The Parksider, 02 July 2010 - 10:53 AM.





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