Park Run

[gingerjon]

The whole thing has very quickly become something of a cause celebre on Twitter with #Keepparkrunfree now trending. It was also a feature on the BBC Breakfast news this morning. The representative from Little Stoke parish council was unrepentant. The BBC Breakfast story says there will be no more Park Runs in Little Stoke.

 

Struggling to see why the heavily sponsored Parkrun organisation can't pay a nominal amount for the maintenance of the places they use.  I'd sort of assumed they did anyway.

[Saintslass]

The whole thing has very quickly become something of a cause celebre on Twitter with #Keepparkrunfree now trending. It was also a feature on the BBC Breakfast news this morning. The representative from Little Stoke parish council was unrepentant. The BBC Breakfast story says there will be no more Park Runs in Little Stoke.

The principle of parkrun was that it is a free inclusive community event to be used primarily for people to get fit and make buddies.  Start charging and that all goes to pot.  It's ok the pompous councillor saying they weren't planning to charge individuals but parkruns don't raise money from sponsors.  The only sponsor is for the hi viz jackets worn by marshals and would he (the councillor) prefer it that marshals are not readily visible to runners, other park users, vehicle drivers?  At St Helens parkrun, the council donated old flasks so we could offer tea and coffee at the end and those supplies are kept up by donations from runners.  We were given things like signs and time watches from the leftovers of the lottery grant secured to upgrade the park which hosts the parkrun.  I don't know which planet that council is on to think that parkruns are sponsored.  They aren't.  On top of that which part of council tax do the runners not pay?  It is council tax that is used to maintain park spaces for all users, not just parkrunners.

 

But well done to Little Stoke parish council: they have killed off what was obviously a thriving community event.  Councils can be so dumb sometimes.

[gingerjon]

The principle of parkrun was that it is a free inclusive community event to be used primarily for people to get fit and make buddies.  Start charging and that all goes to pot.  It's ok the pompous councillor saying they weren't planning to charge individuals but parkruns don't raise money from sponsors.  The only sponsor is for the hi viz jackets worn by marshals and would he (the councillor) prefer it that marshals are not readily visible to runners, other park users, vehicle drivers?  At St Helens parkrun, the council donated old flasks so we could offer tea and coffee at the end and those supplies are kept up by donations from runners.  We were given things like signs and time watches from the leftovers of the lottery grant secured to upgrade the park which hosts the parkrun.  I don't know which planet that council is on to think that parkruns are sponsored.  They aren't.  On top of that which part of council tax do the runners not pay?  It is council tax that is used to maintain park spaces for all users, not just parkrunners.

 

But well done to Little Stoke parish council: they have killed off what was obviously a thriving community event.  Councils can be so dumb sometimes.

 

Intersport, Fibit and Vitality all sponsor Parkrun.

 

Very selfless of Parkrun to put their logos up but take no money from them.

[Saintslass]

Struggling to see why the heavily sponsored Parkrun organisation can't pay a nominal amount for the maintenance of the places they use.  I'd sort of assumed they did anyway.

It isn't heavily sponsored.  The national organisation does have sponsors but how do you think they do things like pay for insurance cover, the website, high viz jackets, time keeping technology, etc?  Would you have the Alzheimers Society stumping up?  Here are the sponsors: http://www.parkrun.org.uk/sponsors/

[Saintslass]

Intersport, Fibit and Vitality all sponsor Parkrun.

 

Very selfless of Parkrun to put their logos up but take no money from them.

I wouldn't have a high viz to wear without Vitality.  How many high viz outfits do you think are needed for 850 parkruns?  We have 16 marshals at our parkrun alone.  And who do you think pays the insurance costs?  We can't run parkrun without insurance cover.

[gingerjon]

It isn't heavily sponsored.  The national organisation does have sponsors but how do you think they do things like pay for insurance cover, the website, high viz jackets, time keeping technology, etc?  Would you have the Alzheimers Society stumping up?  Here are the sponsors: http://www.parkrun.org.uk/sponsors/

 

The Alzheimers Society will be paying.  The others will be paying.  They also take money from the public.

 

I haven't heard how much Little Stoke were asking for nor is it clear whether it's the sort of park that can easily accommodate 300 people plus volunteers.

 

I have no problem at all with councils asking organisations who are intensive users of places like parks to contribute something to their upkeep.

[JohnM]

They haven't killed it off though, have they.  parkrun have just spit their dummy, not tried to find a way forward.

 

Considerable misrepresentation by the media and by parkrun UK

 

Do sports teams have to pay for use of pitches? 

 

How much was the parish council proposing that parkrun UK contribute?

 

How much would this mean that parkrun would ask from each adult runner?

 

I used to run with City of Stoke Athletic Club  (yes, I know...bizarre but true!) and we had to pay for use of facilities back in the good ole days of 1975)

 

They do have sponsors. From parkrun UK's site: Vitality private health insurance ( that one alone is likely to bring an avalanche of opprobrium from this forum) , Fitbit, a $400 million US corporation, Intersport, a 10 billion € turnover company.

 

parkrun is able to offer hundreds of free events across the country every week thanks largely to the fantastic support we receive from our partners.Our partners are an extremely important part of the parkrun family, which is why we select them so carefully. Each of our partners has a deep understanding of the culture and ethos of parkrun and the values that are close to our heart. That’s why we are proud to support them in return.

[Saintslass]

The Alzheimers Society will be paying.  The others will be paying.  They also take money from the public.

 

I haven't heard how much Little Stoke were asking for nor is it clear whether it's the sort of park that can easily accommodate 300 people plus volunteers.

 

I have no problem at all with councils asking organisations who are intensive users of places like parks to contribute something to their upkeep.

No, I'm sure you don't.  However, how two hours a week is considered intensive is anyone's guess.  I'm quite sure that for the remaining hours in each week far more than 330 people (in Little Stoke's case, 200 in St Helens' case) use the park.  Maybe they should be charged too?  After all, what is council tax for? 

 

Have a look at the 'about us' page and you'll see what the sponsors pay for: http://www.parkrun.org.uk/aboutus/

 

I don't think you know what you are talking about here.

[Saintslass]

They haven't killed it off though, have they.  parkrun have just spit their dummy, not tried to find a way forward.

 

Yes they have because the principle of parkrun, to which nobody has objected until now, is that the event is offered free to anyone and everyone.  It was a means of people getting fit, getting healthy.  It isn't a sports club.  Parkruns are not races.  For insurance purposes they are classed as fun runs.  Elite runners can take part - parkruns are for everyone - but most of those involved are not elite runners.  They are just ordinary people having a go, able bodied, disabled; young, middle aged, old; male and female; rich, middling and poor.  I hate running and never run but parkrun is a great idea and I've seen the impact it's had on St Helens.  From the parkrun a 'couch to 5K' group has started up, leading up to the parkrun as their graduation if you like.  A picture on Twitter today showed a huge uptake of the latest couch to 5K group.  Do councils want to meet their healthy living targets or not?

[gingerjon]

I'm quite sure that for the remaining hours in each week far more than 330 people (in Little Stoke's case, 200 in St Helens' case) use the park.

 

Because you have extensive knowledge in the area of how many people use parks, at what times and in what way?  I'd say 300 people running the same route every week would count as significantly more intensive than the park's paths were designed for.

 

I know that running clubs - the things that existed before parkrun - often have to pay (or at least come to an arrangement with councils about parks and pavements) if their groups get too large.  Again, I have no problem with that.

 

The sponsors seem to be paying for a fair number of employees and significant national branding.  Perhaps for another 10k between them they could pay to keep local councils happy.

[gingerjon]

Yes they have because the principle of parkrun, to which nobody has objected until now, is that the event is offered free to anyone and everyone.  It was a means of people getting fit, getting healthy.  It isn't a sports club.  Parkruns are not races.  For insurance purposes they are classed as fun runs.  Elite runners can take part - parkruns are for everyone - but most of those involved are not elite runners.  They are just ordinary people having a go, able bodied, disabled; young, middle aged, old; male and female; rich, middling and poor.  I hate running and never run but parkrun is a great idea and I've seen the impact it's had on St Helens.  From the parkrun a 'couch to 5K' group has started up, leading up to the parkrun as their graduation if you like.  A picture on Twitter today showed a huge uptake of the latest couch to 5K group.  Do councils want to meet their healthy living targets or not?

 

And yet you objected to St Helens Council running free sports activities for under 25s?

[Saintslass]

I used to run with City of Stoke Athletic Club  (yes, I know...bizarre but true!) and we had to pay for use of facilities back in the good ole days of 1975)

 

They do have sponsors. From parkrun UK's site: Vitality private health insurance ( that one alone is likely to bring an avalanche of opprobrium from this forum) , Fitbit, a $400 million US corporation, Intersport, a 10 billion € turnover company.

 

parkrun is able to offer hundreds of free events across the country every week thanks largely to the fantastic support we receive from our partners.Our partners are an extremely important part of the parkrun family, which is why we select them so carefully. Each of our partners has a deep understanding of the culture and ethos of parkrun and the values that are close to our heart. That’s why we are proud to support them in return.

So tell me, how much do you think it costs to insure 850 parkruns?  How much do you think it costs to provide the markers, the signs and the high viz outfits for 850 parkruns?  How much do you think it costs to maintain the website?  How much do you think it costs to pay the few people at central office?  All those things are what the sponsors pay for.

 

The park we use in St Helens was gifted to the council by a rich individual upon their death.  The park was totally upgraded by a lottery grant a couple of years back and hence was the only park the council would allow parkrun to use.  Hundreds of other people use the same park every week, sometimes with their dogs.  If you are going to charge one set of users then you have to charge them all because park spaces are ALL free to users, countrywide.

[Saintslass]

And yet you objected to St Helens Council running free sports activities for under 25s?

Yes, I do.  The council pays their fees for them regardless of whether they earn £50,000, £18,000 or nothing at all, which I think is a total waste of council taxpayers' money.

[JohnM]

Yes they have because the principle of parkrun, to which nobody has objected until now, is that the event is offered free to anyone and everyone.  It was a means of people getting fit, getting healthy.  It isn't a sports club.  Parkruns are not races.  For insurance purposes they are classed as fun runs.  Elite runners can take part - parkruns are for everyone - but most of those involved are not elite runners.  They are just ordinary people having a go, able bodied, disabled; young, middle aged, old; male and female; rich, middling and poor.  I hate running and never run but parkrun is a great idea and I've seen the impact it's had on St Helens.  From the parkrun a 'couch to 5K' group has started up, leading up to the parkrun as their graduation if you like.  A picture on Twitter today showed a huge uptake of the latest couch to 5K group.  Do councils want to meet their healthy living targets or not?

 

No one is objecting now, though.  A democratically and financially accountable parish council funded by the residents has voted to charge parkrun UK for the use of a sporting facility. How much have they asked for?  No need for parkrun to charge runners.

[Bedford Roughyed]

 

 

Do sports teams have to pay for use of pitches? 

 

 

 

£60 a match apparently.

[JohnM]

Thanks. anyone know how much the parish council proposes that parkrun UK pay?

 

I wonder what the altruistic sponsors want out of the relationship

Edited April 13, 2016 by JohnM

[Saintslass]

No one is objecting now, though.  A democratically and financially accountable parish council funded by the residents has voted to charge parkrun UK for the use of a sporting facility. How much have they asked for?  No need for parkrun to charge runners.

Did you not see the objectors on TV?  Of course they objected!  As I said, parkrun was started up on the principle of a free community event.  There are 850 parkruns.  How much cash do you think the sponsors would pay towards the running of 850 parkruns without the runners having to contribute?  Do you think whatever this council decides to charge now would not go up in the future?  Do you think other councils in more expensive areas would charge more or less?  Do you not see the obvious precedent this would set?  Before long there would be no parkrun to charge.

[gingerjon]

Thanks. anyone know how much the parish council proposes that parkrun UK pay?

 

I wonder what the altruistic sponsors want out of the relationship

 

The sponsors want nothing - and you should ignore parkrun's paid employees and deliberately lo-fi website and its direct ask for public 'donations' (despite being a private company, not a charity).

 

The council proposal in January, according to the Western Daily Press, was £1 per runner per run.  Which actually does sound high.  Parkrun's only response that I can see has been to say that they might possibly be able to think about providing a few volunteers to do some things maybe.

[Saintslass]

Thanks. anyone know how much the parish council proposes that parkrun UK pay?

 

I wonder what the altruistic sponsors want out of the relationship

Their names on the hi viz outfits we marshals wear.

[Saintslass]

The sponsors want nothing - and you should ignore parkrun's paid employees and deliberately lo-fi website and its direct ask for public 'donations' (despite being a private company, not a charity).

 

Aye, it's a massive company.  I doubt very much it could have operated as it does without becoming a limited company.  Here are its details: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07289574/filing-history

 

 

The council proposal in January, according to the Western Daily Press, was £1 per runner per run.  Which actually does sound high.  Parkrun's only response that I can see has been to say that they might possibly be able to think about providing a few volunteers to do some things maybe.

Nice little earner, that.  £330 every week for doing nothing that it wouldn't be doing anyway and there would probably still be litter and dog mess for the runners to avoid.

[gingerjon]

Probably best ignore the parkruns that ask its participants to pay a voluntary fee towards the upkeep of the places they run over ...  there's clearly no solution that they could have tried with Stoke Gifford Council.

[JohnM]

Did you not see the objectors on TV?  Of course they objected!  As I said, parkrun was started up on the principle of a free community event.  There are 850 parkruns.  How much cash do you think the sponsors would pay towards the running of 850 parkruns without the runners having to contribute?  Do you think whatever this council decides to charge now would not go up in the future?  Do you think other councils in more expensive areas would charge more or less?  Do you not see the obvious precedent this would set?  Before long there would be no parkrun to charge.

 

I saw the "objectors".  Aggressiv , finger pointing bunch, the lot of them,  A calmer, more reasoned interview this morning, where the Council chairman was allowed to actually speak without being shouted down by the mob was spoiled somewhat by a technical hitch. 

 

So what has parkrun UK done to resolve things. Let me guess.....

[gingerjon]

Aye, it's a massive company.  I doubt very much it could have operated as it does without becoming a limited company.  Here are its details: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07289574/filing-history

 

Yes, I've read that link before.

 

You'll forgive me for not swallowing all the marketing by organisations that claim to be for public benefit that avoid putting themselves up to have that tested by going for charitable/community organisation status.

[Saintslass]

£60 a match apparently.

When I was a rugby league coach the club I coached with didn't have to pay anything extra for children to train on the council pitches.

[gingerjon]

£60 a match apparently.

 

And going up steeply in some places year on year too.  Something about capping council tax and slashing the grant from central government.