Jimmy B Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 (edited) Fifteen years ago our game received what I can only describe as "manna from heaven" - a TV contract from Sky TV which has subseqently seen a previously only dreamt of cash injection - which now must total something like ( and an estimation my part ) Edited July 4, 2010 by Jimmy B Lets not forget, Featherstone Rovers is a RUGBY club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy B Posted July 4, 2010 Author Share Posted July 4, 2010 (edited) OK then, what exactly did it achieve in the previous 100 years? a few clubs here and there? A pathetic result for 100 years. RL has made more GENUINE advancement in the last 10 years, than the previous 100. The question was what has the professional game got to show for something like Edited July 4, 2010 by Jimmy B Lets not forget, Featherstone Rovers is a RUGBY club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick wilson Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 OK then, what exactly did it achieve in the previous 100 years? a few clubs here and there? A pathetic result for 100 years. RL has made more GENUINE advancement in the last 10 years, than the previous 100. Agreed, judge it after another 10 years and i'll wager the sport will be very strong indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenilworth Tiger Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 No, you tell me what it achieved before then. In 100 years. In fairness Johnoco, he did start the thread asking for that question to be answered Now then, it's a race between Sandie....and Fairburn....and the little man is in........yeees he's in. I, just like those Castleford supporters felt that the ball should have gone to David Plange but he put the bit betwen his teeth...and it was a try Kevin Ward - best player I have ever seen The real Mick Gledhill is what you see on here, a Bradford fan ........, but deep down knows that Bradford are just not good enough to challenge the likes of Leeds & St Helens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrek Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 QUOTE (Jimmy B @ Jul 4 2010, 01:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The question was what has the professional game got to show for something like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shep Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 QUOTE (Jimmy B @ Jul 4 2010, 01:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just what has the Professional game got to show for the money they have received from Sky over the last 15 years ? I've enjoyed watching it Nottingham Outlaws RL - nottinghamrl.co.ukNottingham Trent University RL - ntu.nottinghamrl.co.uk University of Nottingham RL - uon.nottinghamrl.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l'angelo mysterioso Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 QUOTE (Jimmy B @ Jul 4 2010, 01:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The question was what has the professional game got to show for something like WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015 Keeping it local Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldcard Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 London Crusaders were just about hanging in there pre-S/L and were lower tier for a few years. They've only recently found a stable venue and base, but it's far from being in the "right place". However, defining the "right place" in London from a fanbase point of view has been debated a fair few times. However, what they have done away from S/L in expanding the grass root development is fantastic, and all pro clubs are judged on what they do in the local game. Money from Sky and SportEngland goes there too, and so whilst it seems there's an Elite, the game is being strengthened. The tours, well, it's cos we lined up our season with the Aussies. If they switched to summer too, they could return, you know. However, the 4 Nations concept could eventually take off as a replacement for a test series. Maybe warm-up games v clubs could be a bigger part. Stadia? Done to death. Wires record breaking 10 match run: L 16-17 ; L 34-36 ; L 24-44 ; L 20-38 ; L 8-46; L 14-26 ; L 20-40 ; L 22-48 ; L 14-20 ; L 8-60. Thanks Jimmy.The Glamour Club. Apparently. Captain Morgan Trophy Holders.(I still think we have the British Coal 9's trophy hidden somewhere, too...) Ooooh, the Challenge Cup!!! Thank you Tony..... And again!!! Tipping Competiton Challenged Shield Winner 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L Bow Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 QUOTE (Jimmy B @ Jul 4 2010, 01:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Fifteen years ago our game received what I can only describe as "manner from heaven" - a TV contract from Sky TV which has subseqently seen a previously only dreamt of cash injection - which now must total something like ( and an estimation my part ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowes Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 (edited) RL has made more GENUINE advancement in the last 10 years, than the previous 100. Not true really, the game expanded by far the most in the BARLA boom at its pinnacle in the 80s with huge increases in numbers of amateur clubs both in and outside the heartlands, the game really was in a bad state in 1973, just unfortunately this boom was already significantly in decline by the time SL started. About 20 years ago there were 5 RL clubs in Gloucestershire playing the same season as RU, unimaginable now. What has improved in the last 10 years is juniors outside the heartlands. The flipside of the coin is that this is little to do with SL and more a combination of better communications and the ability to use RU players in the offseason rather than having to find committed RL players (in some cases these are one and the same players of course, but in somewhere like Ireland, Scotland or the deep South West that is less the case). In fact the non-heartland juniors will have grown up on 8 months RU and 3 months RL unless we change this and the current set up will be continued Of course the answer to this thread is SL has improved the top division and done less for clubs in lower divisions. The sooner we have a sensible Championship setup the better and hopefully bringing the game into one season will allow that. Drop the unsuitable clubs from the pro leagues to a more realistic level and go for one Championship division Edited July 4, 2010 by bowes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowes Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 (edited) Not disputing that bowes, you clearly know more than me about it. But how many set ups were there like say, Leeds Akkies? ie a 'fun' social sort of thing? (with apologies if that is a wrong description) I suppose pub teams were the equivalent (a lot harder to enter them in winter leagues nowadays due to there not being leagues down to about division 8 or 9 anymore). I do think you raise a valid point though and I think merit leagues for new clubs are a very good thing rather than chucking clubs that can't fulfil weekly fixtures into the main leagues like they used to (actually the early days of the RLC you had to play friendlies like we did in our first season; the throw anyone in started with NL3 and the RLC Premier divisions leaving gaps needing filling). I think when the season is in summer we should aim for the established non-heartland clubs to play a full season when possible, but still retain shorter seasons and merit leagues for getting RU players and new players into the game, and also for the social element and reserve teams. The RLC was originally as much to save rugby league outside the heartlands as to grow it and it has certainly done that and got us back to about the same numbers in full adult leagues, but actually more when you take merit leagues and juniors into account there's a lot more players (outside of places like Staffordshire, Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire and Gloucestershire than used to have a lot of winter clubs), only you have to factor in the RU reliance. Long term I think the RLC will become redundant and each region will have its own league structure as part of the pyramid on a par with the BARLA leagues. With merit leagues as the lower divisions of this structure and some short season leagues as an alternative. Is much of this to do with SL, not really, some of the growth in London and Wales is, but not as much as people would make out. Hard work from volunteers, regional development officers and community coaches has done more (Sport England money largely). I think the contrast between the large number of players in London and the appalling crowds at Harlequins shows it's not just SL supporters going along to play. But yes SL has done a lot for the top level and if done properly franchising will increase the top level quality (i.e. select clubs according to quality as opposed to either just keeping the same clubs in or rigging criteria to put in unsuitable expansion clubs 3-6 years before they're ready). I think the new direction of the community game will be a big benefit to the sport in the same way BARLA saved the amateur game and introduced it to non-heartland areas (3 amateur teams in London were the only non-heartland teams in the whole of the UK in 1973 when BARLA was formed!) and the RLC saved it outside the heartlands. In fact in 1973 Wigan, St Helens, Widnes, Leigh, Bradford, Heavy Woollen, South Yorkshire etc. didn't have a league for their clubs to play in at all. Some played in other district leagues (Wigan St Patrick's in Warrington League comes to mind), but the game really was dying before the forced mergers of leagues Edited July 4, 2010 by bowes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowes Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 (edited) delete double post Edited July 4, 2010 by bowes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Parksider Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 QUOTE (Jimmy B @ Jul 4 2010, 01:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just what has the Professional game got to show for the money they have received from Sky over the last 15 years ? You simply answer your own question. Senior RL was largely semi professional in 1995, the money from SKY has created a fully professional Rugby League, saved our best players from going to union and underpinned enough interest in the game at junior and amateur level to keep it alive enough to have a future of sorts. It's a decent enough return given the state the game was in in 1995 and given that the free gangway gave RU the opportunity to clean up on "rugby" per se. Now what's your problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l'angelo mysterioso Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 I suppose pub teams were the equivalent (a lot harder to enter them in winter leagues nowadays due to there not being leagues down to about division 8 or 9 anymore). I do think you raise a valid point though and I think merit leagues for new clubs are a very good thing rather than chucking clubs that can't fulfil weekly fixtures into the main leagues like they used to (actually the early days of the RLC you had to play friendlies like we did in our first season; the throw anyone in started with NL3 and the RLC Premier divisions leaving gaps needing filling). I think when the season is in summer we should aim for the established non-heartland clubs to play a full season when possible, but still retain shorter seasons and merit leagues for getting RU players and new players into the game, and also for the social element and reserve teams. The RLC was originally as much to save rugby league outside the heartlands as to grow it and it has certainly done that and got us back to about the same numbers in full adult leagues, but actually more when you take merit leagues and juniors into account there's a lot more players (outside of places like Staffordshire, Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire and Gloucestershire than used to have a lot of winter clubs), only you have to factor in the RU reliance. Long term I think the RLC will become redundant and each region will have its own league structure as part of the pyramid on a par with the BARLA leagues. With merit leagues as the lower divisions of this structure and some short season leagues as an alternative. Is much of this to do with SL, not really, some of the growth in London and Wales is, but not as much as people would make out. Hard work from volunteers, regional development officers and community coaches has done more (Sport England money largely). I think the contrast between the large number of players in London and the appalling crowds at Harlequins shows it's not just SL supporters going along to play. But yes SL has done a lot for the top level and if done properly franchising will increase the top level quality (i.e. select clubs according to quality as opposed to either just keeping the same clubs in or rigging criteria to put in unsuitable expansion clubs 3-6 years before they're ready). I think the new direction of the community game will be a big benefit to the sport in the same way BARLA saved the amateur game and introduced it to non-heartland areas (3 amateur teams in London were the only non-heartland teams in the whole of the UK in 1973 when BARLA was formed!) and the RLC saved it outside the heartlands. In fact in 1973 Wigan, St Helens, Widnes, Leigh, Bradford, Heavy Woollen, South Yorkshire etc. didn't have a league for their clubs to play in at all. Some played in other district leagues (Wigan St Patrick's in Warrington League comes to mind), but the game really was dying before the forced mergers of leagues Pub teams aren't the equivalent RLC clubs in any shape or form. WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015 Keeping it local Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy B Posted July 5, 2010 Author Share Posted July 5, 2010 You simply answer your own question. Senior RL was largely semi professional in 1995, the money from SKY has created a fully professional Rugby League, saved our best players from going to union and underpinned enough interest in the game at junior and amateur level to keep it alive enough to have a future of sorts. It's a decent enough return given the state the game was in in 1995 and given that the free gangway gave RU the opportunity to clean up on "rugby" per se. Now what's your problem? Please believe me I don't have a problem ! I have supported this game for over 50 Years. I have been very fortunate to have seen my chosen club win every trophy they have ever won. That includes three Challenge Cups, a First Division Championship, the Yorkshire Cup, two wins against Australian touring sides. On the other side of the coin I have seen them relegated three times - and bounce straight back and win promotion three times. But don't the bad times make the good times so much better ? If my team never wins another thing no-one can take away the experiences I have enjoyed which are much more numerous than supporters of many other clubs could ever wish for. Memories that will last forever ! Sky money - so we were told , was to benefit the game overall ( I have still got the newspaper cuttings that told us so) yet for the life of me I cannot see where the promised benefits have materialised. My original question, what has the professional game got to show for an injection of Lets not forget, Featherstone Rovers is a RUGBY club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Parksider Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 (edited) edit Edited July 5, 2010 by The Parksider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Parksider Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 QUOTE (Jimmy B @ Jul 5 2010, 01:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My original question, what has the professional game got to show for an injection of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 (edited) one major negative has been that the majority of clubs outside super league have sacrificed their youth development structures, and gone for the quick fix of filling their first teams with foreigners in order to attempt to attain super league status. this is still true even after the introduction of the license system.............. sorry forgot to mention that a sizeable chunk of the 200,000,000 has been used to bolster the pension funds of ageing antipodeans, att the expense of young british talent. Edited July 5, 2010 by Viking Warrior "Why is Napoleon crying ?" said one sailor to the other, "poor ###### thinks he's being exiled to st helens" came the reply. https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1455957_262746450543197_276002364_n.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l'angelo mysterioso Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 (edited) QUOTE (Jimmy B @ Jul 5 2010, 01:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Please believe me I don't have a problem ! I have supported this game for over 50 Years. I have been very fortunate to have seen my chosen club win every trophy they have ever won. That includes three Challenge Cups, a First Division Championship, the Yorkshire Cup, two wins against Australian touring sides. On the other side of the coin I have seen them relegated three times - and bounce straight back and win promotion three times. But don't the bad times make the good times so much better ? If my team never wins another thing no-one can take away the experiences I have enjoyed which are much more numerous than supporters of many other clubs could ever wish for. Memories that will last forever ! Sky money - so we were told , was to benefit the game overall ( I have still got the newspaper cuttings that told us so) yet for the life of me I cannot see where the promised benefits have materialised. My original question, what has the professional game got to show for an injection of Edited July 5, 2010 by l'angelo mysterioso WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015 Keeping it local Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowes Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 Pub teams aren't the equivalent RLC clubs in any shape or form. He did say social club not RLC club. But some RLC clubs are the equivalent of pub teams, some are very well run amateur clubs, some are somewhere between. At Coventry we run: 1sts 2nds Under 16s Under 14s Under 12s Women's Girls Under 12 Plus have a schools competition and this is about average for the big clubs in the midlands. However, in the deep South West (i.e. not Gloucestershire and Bristol) every club is just one team of RU players. Also in the midlands we had one club Burntwood who were just a team of RU players wanting a summer keep fit and a few fights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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