Marquee allowance

[Dave T]

so you posted and people disagreed. Whats the problem?

For some reason you have taken offence and resorted to snide comments instead of debating the issue.

[Dave T]

Too many posts declaring what will happen , not what they think might happen

again, being provocative for the sake of it. Clearly everybody is stating their view of whatvthey think will happen. Why are you so against differing views?

[scotchy]

I find it utterly astounding. Honestly I am astounded that people seem to think the only thing stopping multi multi millionaires driving their business in to the ground is paying players less. Simon Moran can put on huge shows with some of the biggest stars in the world but is going to be taken to the cleaners by one of David Riolo's 2nd tier players.

I honestly don't get the logic that says Paul Caddick can build a huge construction empire but the only thing stopping him paying unbelievable sums on dross from the nrl is rfl rules.

Gausch, lenegan, Davy, Crossland, can build huge businesses from the ground up but are apparently entirely unable to negotiate a good deal with showmethemoneyuk.

Koukash of course can build a huge business from nothing, a large successful horse racing empire from nothing, but he is going to lose his shirt negotiating with world renowned negotiator David Howes

[Krytensmate]

again, being provocative for the sake of it. Clearly everybody is stating their view of whatvthey think will happen. Why are you so against differing views?

But they aren't Dave ,certain posters declare what will happen , over and over and over again

But fair enough , I've work to do

[Dave T]

I find it utterly astounding. Honestly I am astounded that people seem to think the only thing stopping multi multi millionaires driving their business in to the ground is paying players less. Simon Moran can put on huge shows with some of the biggest stars in the world but is going to be taken to the cleaners by one of David Riolo's 2nd tier players.

I honestly don't get the logic that says Paul Caddick can build a huge construction empire but the only thing stopping him paying unbelievable sums on dross from the nrl is rfl rules.

Gausch, lenegan, Davy, Crossland, can build huge businesses from the ground up but are apparently entirely unable to negotiate a good deal with showmethemoneyuk.

Koukash of course can build a huge business from nothing, a large successful horse racing empire from nothing, but he is going to lose his shirt negotiating with world renowned negotiator David Howes

Are you suggesting that sports clubs with successful businessmen at the helm have never struggled financially?

 

We could probably find many examples, and not because the owners themselves have gone bust. I would suggest they rarely lose out. That is sort of the point.

[scotchy]

I'm suggesting the idea that they are going to be taken to the cleaners by these players/agents is crazy.

As I said you can't legislate against stupidity, we have many more examples of salary cap or no salary cap idiots will find a way to runs club into the ground

[scotchy]

Above all Listen to your own Hetherington - A wage structure that isn't based on favouritism and a chairman who doesn't even sign marquee players for his beloved RU club.

As for the silent ones are Lenegan, Davey and Moran chomping at this bit?? Not last time this was tabled.

If there is a model for some owners to go out and bring in top talent, that therefore brings in the crowds, and therefore, brings in more money for more talent until we have it all please set it out.

Posters have suggested SBW, Inglis, Thurston, Tomkins, Burgess. etc

Posters have suggested the cost of these players salaries if they are to be enticed to the M62

You can work out the crowds needed to bring a return on these investments.

Good investment or fantasy. Give us the figures.

Hetherington not only voted in favor of the marquee exemption he has tabled the same suggestion for vote. He is not only in favour of the idea, it's his idea. Hetherington Moran Davy and Lenegan all voted for the marquee exemption last time. As well as Koukash.

[sweaty craiq]

What is holding our sport back is written all over this topic, we have a mentality of creating status quo at mediocrity. YOU DO NOT GROW A BUSINESS BY SAVING MONEY. PEOPLE ARE ATTRACTED TO AND CRAVE PREMIUM PRODUCTS, WE ARE NOT SERVING A PREMIUM PRODUCT IN SL AT PRESENT.

 

How many Saints fans are walking to games thinking 'I wonder what spectacular thing Player X will do today', same at Wigan, Wire, Leeds etc Where are the players with media presence who keep you on the edge of your seat like Offiah, Long, Edwards, Gregory, Briers, Gill, Drummond, Woods, Ford, Paul, Martyn, Vainikolo etc

 

My club is not in SL but the rugby we play tends to turn out some spectacular try's, recruiting a name like MoiMoi excited the fans and together with the chance of promotion energised the club very quickly - the investment in MoiMoi will pay for itself if it hasnt already done so, if we get some luck and make SL in 2016 a marquee signing would build on that energy and become a great investment

[MattSantos]

What is holding our sport back is written all over this topic, we have a mentality of creating status quo at mediocrity. YOU DO NOT GROW A BUSINESS BY SAVING MONEY. PEOPLE ARE ATTRACTED TO AND CRAVE PREMIUM PRODUCTS, WE ARE NOT SERVING A PREMIUM PRODUCT IN SL AT PRESENT.

 

How many Saints fans are walking to games thinking 'I wonder what spectacular thing Player X will do today', same at Wigan, Wire, Leeds etc Where are the players with media presence who keep you on the edge of your seat like Offiah, Long, Edwards, Gregory, Briers, Gill, Drummond, Woods, Ford, Paul, Martyn, Vainikolo etc

 

My club is not in SL but the rugby we play tends to turn out some spectacular try's, recruiting a name like MoiMoi excited the fans and together with the chance of promotion energised the club very quickly - the investment in MoiMoi will pay for itself if it hasnt already done so, if we get some luck and make SL in 2016 a marquee signing would build on that energy and become a great investment

 

Do you need a hug?

 

How does a marquee signing free from the cap help serve a better product? For each of the top 8, pick me 8 players that would increase our product... Even if you find 8 that would excite me, they should be paid within the salary cap. The trickle down effect of then releasing players to compensate strengthens other clubs, making a more even competition.

[redjonn]

What is holding our sport back is written all over this topic, we have a mentality of creating status quo at mediocrity. YOU DO NOT GROW A BUSINESS BY SAVING MONEY. PEOPLE ARE ATTRACTED TO AND CRAVE PREMIUM PRODUCTS, WE ARE NOT SERVING A PREMIUM PRODUCT IN SL AT PRESENT.

 

How many Saints fans are walking to games thinking 'I wonder what spectacular thing Player X will do today', same at Wigan, Wire, Leeds etc Where are the players with media presence who keep you on the edge of your seat like Offiah, Long, Edwards, Gregory, Briers, Gill, Drummond, Woods, Ford, Paul, Martyn, Vainikolo etc

 

My club is not in SL but the rugby we play tends to turn out some spectacular try's, recruiting a name like MoiMoi excited the fans and together with the chance of promotion energised the club very quickly - the investment in MoiMoi will pay for itself if it hasnt already done so, if we get some luck and make SL in 2016 a marquee signing would build on that energy and become a great investment

 

I think you make a reasonable point. Since Sam Tomkins left I can't think of any player that has be on the edge of the seat or worrying what he may do against the team I support on the way to the game.

[Allora]

Who do posters in this thread think would be a marquee signing  and what would he cost in your opinion?

 

Think of the top NRL player your Club should sign and what would that player cost?

[scotchy]

Do you need a hug?

How does a marquee signing free from the cap help serve a better product? For each of the top 8, pick me 8 players that would increase our product... Even if you find 8 that would excite me, they should be paid within the salary cap. The trickle down effect of then releasing players to compensate strengthens other clubs, making a more even competition.

bloody hell, I thought trickle down economics had gone the way of thatcher.

Do you really believe that we cannot get 8 better players than we would otherwise by spending more?

Also why should these 'trickle down' players be expected to earn less because Wakefield are poor?

[scotchy]

Who do posters in this thread think would be a marquee signing and what would he cost in your opinion?

Think of the top NRL player your Club should sign and what would that player cost?

Even under the cap leeds were very close to signing widdop

[sweaty craiq]

Do you need a hug?

 

How does a marquee signing free from the cap help serve a better product? For each of the top 8, pick me 8 players that would increase our product... Even if you find 8 that would excite me, they should be paid within the salary cap. The trickle down effect of then releasing players to compensate strengthens other clubs, making a more even competition.

 

No disrespect Matt but I hope you are not employed to create wealth or grow a business.

[MattSantos]

bloody hell, I thought trickle down economics had gone the way of thatcher.

Do you really believe that we cannot get 8 better players than we would otherwise by spending more?

Also why should these 'trickle down' players be expected to earn less because Wakefield are poor?

 

Tell me where ive said we cant attract players if we spend more. Please. I wouldnt argue against a raise in the cap, but i sincerely do not see the point of having an allowance outside the cap. Pointless.

 

Who is saying that they would earn less - they'd earn the market value. If they want to earn more, be a better player.

[MattSantos]

No disrespect Matt but I hope you are not employed to create wealth or grow a business.

 

How does spending money outside of a pre-defined cap grow a business. The NFL does ok doesn't it... I'll work for them. 

 

ps, i touch over 10b USD per day.. best hand in my notice.

[redjonn]

Do you need a hug?

 

How does a marquee signing free from the cap help serve a better product? For each of the top 8, pick me 8 players that would increase our product... Even if you find 8 that would excite me, they should be paid within the salary cap. The trickle down effect of then releasing players to compensate strengthens other clubs, making a more even competition.

 

I thought the idea of a maquee allowance was to prevent top talent leaving or bring in top talent that would not otherwise be in SL.  In your example if one of the 8 was a top talent it would be about keeping him for longer. Obviously what is top talent is subjective and the tricky bit.

 

For me I agree with those that say the common denominator effect is lowering the overall quality.  That is ensuring a salary cap to fit the poorest clubs potentially allows a more even competition but leads to lower quality, less star names and even less media or general fan interest.

 

Mind you I'm not even sure that keeping a low cap leads to even competition because the weight of history favours certain clubs that are perceived as the top clubs. That is those clubs perceived as top clubs are more likely to be of interest for the better players. Well those that are left that don't go of to the NRL.

[Allora]

Even under the cap leeds were very close to signing widdop

 

 

Really, I did not hear about that.

Leeds were going to pay Widdop   285k a year for 4 years, even more than that at the time when the Australian dollar was a lot stronger.

[scotchy]

Tell me where ive said we cant attract players if we spend more. Please. I wouldnt argue against a raise in the cap, but i sincerely do not see the point of having an allowance outside the cap. Pointless.

Who is saying that they would earn less - they'd earn the market value. If they want to earn more, be a better player.

you have just asked for 8 players to improve our product. If we get 8 better players we have 8 players to improve our product.

If they were earning their market rate, the salary cap would have literally no effect at all on anything. The entire reason for an SC'S existence is to stop players earning their market rate

[MattSantos]

Further to my points.

 

I believe that the optimal method of growing the sport is through International Rugby League. We didn't lose Burgess, S because of money, we lost him so he could try and play for England in a RUWC. The game didn't lose Hayne because of money.. etc etc.

 

A marquee allowance is just nonsense and in my mind doesn't have a single benefit - if you want a mega star player, then pay for him within the constraints of the salary cap and build a team around him accordingly. If you don't, then build a solid squad without the cap pressure of 1 dominant player.

 

If we want to stop the next generation leaving to join RU, then develop our game internationally rather than constantly changing the goalposts. 

 

Salford - They have an England 6 playing for them, a maverick. He doesn't draw crowds. The evidence is there. Thurston isn't going to put 10k on the gate. If he does, then pay for him within the rules of the comp.. What develops crowds is a completely different thread, so lets not debate a myriad of topics.

 

Comparisons

NFL - Fairest pro comp in the world. Doing ok

Premier League - QPR can buy and pay for anyone. Anyone in the prem can. Give me the German model any-day. 

[scotchy]

Really, I did not hear about that.

Leeds were going to pay Widdop 285k a year for 4 years, even more than that at the time when the Australian dollar was a lot stronger.

I don't think that is vastly more than the big names will be getting now. I would be very surprised if there aren't players in SL already knocking on for 500k Aussie dollars.

[MattSantos]

Really, I did not hear about that.

Leeds were going to pay Widdop   285k a year for 4 years, even more than that at the time when the Australian dollar was a lot stronger.

 

Wish it would have happened. McGuire or Burrow would then be surplus to requirement and play for someone else = stronger comp.

[MattSantos]

you have just asked for 8 players to improve our product. If we get 8 better players we have 8 players to improve our product.

If they were earning their market rate, the salary cap would have literally no effect at all on anything. The entire reason for an SC'S existence is to stop players earning their market rate

 

This is gibberish. Saints buy Thurston. He's probably on a lot more than Burns. Result = to spend a full cap, Burns goes elsewhere. Say he goes to Cas. Probs earning more than their 6.. etc etc

 

The salary cap therefore does its job.

[scotchy]

Further to my points.

I believe that the optimal method of growing the sport is through International Rugby League. We didn't lose Burgess, S because of money, we lost him so he could try and play for England in a RUWC. The game didn't lose Hayne because of money.. etc etc.

A marquee allowance is just nonsense and in my mind doesn't have a single benefit - if you want a mega star player, then pay for him within the constraints of the salary cap and build a team around him accordingly. If you don't, then build a solid squad without the cap pressure of 1 dominant player.

If we want to stop the next generation leaving to join RU, then develop our game internationally rather than constantly changing the goalposts.

Salford - They have an England 6 playing for them, a maverick. He doesn't draw crowds. The evidence is there. Thurston isn't going to put 10k on the gate. If he does, then pay for him within the rules of the comp.. What develops crowds is a completely different thread, so lets not debate a myriad of topics.

Comparisons

NFL - Fairest pro comp in the world. Doing ok

Premier League - QPR can buy and pay for anyone. Anyone in the prem can. Give me the German model any-day.

the German model of having pretty much 1 club. Sounds brilliant

[MattSantos]

the German model of having pretty much 1 club. Sounds brilliant

 

Sigh.

 

At the risk of going off-topic, but i do think it's relevant. What are Germany like Internationally?