Marquee allowance

[scotchy]

This is gibberish. Saints buy Thurston. He's probably on a lot more than Burns. Result = to spend a full cap, Burns goes elsewhere. Say he goes to Cas. Probs earning more than their 6.. etc etc

The salary cap therefore does its job.

Burns market rate is whatever someone is willing to pay for him. You are describing an example where someone cannot pay what they want for him. Ergo he is not getting his market rate.

If players were right now getting their market rate, a removal of the SC would have 0 effect because players were already getting their market rate. The very reason for an SC is to keep players wages lower. Ergo to stop then getting their market rate.

[sweaty craiq]

The marquee players will come from RU and the NRL, a bit of research will find out what they earn and you up it for the one you want. From what I can gather a top earning S14 player in France earns about £350k pa on todays rates, Greg Inglis is on circa £425k pa so these are the sort of numbers we will need to find to bring the worlds best to SL

[MattSantos]

Burns market rate is whatever someone is willing to pay for him. You are describing an example where someone cannot pay what they want for him. Ergo he is not getting his market rate.

If players were right now getting their market rate, a removal of the SC would have 0 effect because players were already getting their market rate. The very reason for an SC is to keep players wages lower. Ergo to stop then getting their market rate.

 

I am describing an example where Saints want to pay more for someone better. If another club decides Burns is better than what they have, they pay more for him. If they don't, then tough.

 

Again - i've no problems with an increase in salary cap.

[scotchy]

Sigh.

At the risk of going off-topic, but i do think it's relevant. What are Germany like Internationally?

they do very well. Their youth development is brilliant. The bundesliga is terrible and the club who won the league by 19 points Las year, and 35 points the year before (that's more than 150% of the 2nd place team btw) is winning this year by 11pts. It's also why they get far less tv money, and far less sponsorship.

[MattSantos]

The marquee players will come from RU and the NRL, a bit of research will find out what they earn and you up it for the one you want. From what I can gather a top earning S14 player in France earns about £350k pa on todays rates, Greg Inglis is on circa £425k pa so these are the sort of numbers we will need to find to bring the worlds best to SL

 

Who on earth would want to leave the NRL in their prime to play in England and earn the same cash. Same for RU. If we're now paying someone from another sport the top money, then we're in bigger trouble than a marquee allowance would ever fix.

[scotchy]

I am describing an example where Saints want to pay more for someone better. If another club decides Burns is better than what they have, they pay more for him. If they don't, then tough.

Again - i've no problems with an increase in salary cap.

An increase in the SC would make no difference if players were already getting their market value

[MattSantos]

An increase in the SC would make no difference if players were already getting their market value

 

So what is the point of the allowance?

[scotchy]

So what is the point of the allowance?

to allow us to pay the marketplace rate.

Something we don't do right now. Because the SC means players aren't paid their market rate.

[Allora]

I don't think that is vastly more than the big names will be getting now. I would be very surprised if there aren't players in SL already knocking on for 500k Aussie dollars.

 

But Widdop is nowhere near the top of the tree in the NRL.

Is he worth as much as well established existing stars in SL?

I don't know.

Who in SL do you think is on £285 thousand pounds a year?

[thundergaz]

Who on earth would want to leave the NRL in their prime to play in England and earn the same cash. Same for RU. If we're now paying someone from another sport the top money, then we're in bigger trouble than a marquee allowance would ever fix.

I agree with this 100%. The only positive I can see from this scenario is a SL club being able to match what an NRL or RU club offers in wages to a player to try to keep that player in SL. If we want the top NRL talent etc then we will have to pay some outrageous wages to bring them over but if clubs are willing and I mean this can honestly afford it and not play with fire then so be it but it is a dangerous route to go down if its a gamble of money.

[sweaty craiq]

Further to my points.

 

I believe that the optimal method of growing the sport is through International Rugby League. We didn't lose Burgess, S because of money, we lost him so he could try and play for England in a RUWC. The game didn't lose Hayne because of money.. etc etc.

 

A marquee allowance is just nonsense and in my mind doesn't have a single benefit - if you want a mega star player, then pay for him within the constraints of the salary cap and build a team around him accordingly. If you don't, then build a solid squad without the cap pressure of 1 dominant player.

 

If we want to stop the next generation leaving to join RU, then develop our game internationally rather than constantly changing the goalposts. 

 

Salford - They have an England 6 playing for them, a maverick. He doesn't draw crowds. The evidence is there. Thurston isn't going to put 10k on the gate. If he does, then pay for him within the rules of the comp.. What develops crowds is a completely different thread, so lets not debate a myriad of topics.

 

Comparisons

NFL - Fairest pro comp in the world. Doing ok

Premier League - QPR can buy and pay for anyone. Anyone in the prem can. Give me the German model any-day. 

 

RL cap is substantially less than a single players salary in those comps. We lost Burgess to the NRL due to it being the premier RL comp and a huge wage increase. The NRL lost him to RU. Our SC does not work, clubs are already incapable of breaking even with its protection and we cant keep lowering it in real terms to help the deadwood compete.

Call it a Marquee signing or an increase in cap but it should equate to the same, we should not have a SC - we should have a simple rule that says the books must balance without DL's at the end of each season and then let the ambitions/cream rise

[scotchy]

But Widdop is nowhere near the top of the tree in the NRL.

Is he worth as much as well established existing stars in SL?

I don't know.

Who in SL do you think is on £285 thousand pounds a year?

I bet the likes of Sinfield last contract, Tomkins won't have been on much less if anything, I bet chase is on a decent sum.

I think the best players in most teams are on 150k- 200k, the very best will be on a bit more.

[thundergaz]

RL cap is substantially less than a single players salary in those comps. We lost Burgess to the NRL due to it being the premier RL comp and a huge wage increase. The NRL lost him to RU. Our SC does not work, clubs are already incapable of breaking even with its protection and we cant keep lowering it in real terms to help the deadwood compete.

Call it a Marquee signing or an increase in cap but it should equate to the same, we should not have a SC - we should have a simple rule that says the books must balance without DL's at the end of each season and then let the ambitions/cream rise

Then we have a Wigan of the 80s/90s where most hated or get fed up with seeing their dominance. I actually loved watching that wigan side but I can see why people didn't enjoy our sport at that time.From your comment I see leigh have finally got some money to throw about lol. But don't be so naive in thinking they can throw it about like the salfords wigans Leeds saints etc of this world. SL would be dominated by the money men like Wigan used to if you got your way.

[Allora]

I bet the likes of Sinfield last contract, Tomkins won't have been on much less if anything, I bet chase is on a decent sum.

I think the best players in most teams are on 150k- 200k, the very best will be a bit more.

 

But Sinfield was the pin up boy for a decade.

Tomkins the wonder kid that could win a game on his own and was going to tear it up in the NRL.

Chase is a myth built on a couple of plays I can count on one hand, but he is paid based on those rare bursts of outlandish skills.

 

Widdop is quality but has only just cemented his spot in the England run on team in the last 6 months.

[scotchy]

Then we have a Wigan of the 80s/90s where most hated or get fed up with seeing their dominance. I actually loved watching that wigan side but I can see why people didn't enjoy our sport at that time.

there are other ways of avoiding that. As I mentioned squad limits and quota's would remove that possibility.

One of the other issues with Wigan is that they were the very best pro players playing against semi pro's. I really don't believe that a Wigan style situation is likely in our game.

[scotchy]

But Sinfield was the pin up boy for a decade.

Tomkins the wonder kid that could win a game on his own and was going to tear it up in the NRL.

Widdop is quality but has only just cemented his spot in the England team in the last 6 months.

why couldn't Widdop be the poster boy for the next decade?

[thundergaz]

there are other ways of avoiding that. As I mentioned squad limits and quota's would remove that possibility.

One of the other issues with Wigan is that they were the very best pro players playing against semi pro's. I really don't believe that a Wigan style situation is likely in our game.

Yes very true. But I wouldn't put the possibility of a Wigan of the 80s/90s reappearing if we did have an open salary cap like Craig was wanting.Craig was wanting the cap scraped and let the money men rise to the fore.

[sweaty craiq]

Then we have a Wigan of the 80s/90s where most hated or get fed up with seeing their dominance. I actually loved watching that wigan side but I can see why people didn't enjoy our sport at that time.From your comment I see leigh have finally got some money to throw about lol. But don't be so naive in thinking they can throw it about like the salfords wigans Leeds saints etc of this world. SL would be dominated by the money men like Wigan used to if you got your way.

 

FT v PT do you mean? Wigan/Bradford invited to compete in RU 7's, sell out Wembley finals, huge GB test crowds, pushing the Aussies all the way in the Ashes home and away, competing in WC finals, being such a draw as to attract Sky to invest in it? Not too bad a time really.

There is no way that my club should compete in an open market, so to do so we would need to work that bit harder - I relish that challenge and that would also stop complacency at the 'bigger' clubs.

[sweaty craiq]

Yes very true. But I wouldn't put the possibility of a Wigan of the 80s/90s reappearing if we did have an open salary cap like Craig was wanting.Craig was wanting the cap scraped and let the money men rise to the fore.

 

Money into the sport is good for the sport not bad, you may also see my caveat of no loans.

[Allora]

why couldn't Widdop be the poster boy for the next decade?

 

He would need to have a very long career as a half in that case.

[thundergaz]

Money into the sport is good for the sport not bad, you may also see my caveat of no loans.

I'm not saying money isn't a good thing in our game. But not having a salary cap will surely not only make one team the dominate force in our sport but also kill our international game. Because if you have an open cap no way will the big clubs invest in youth they will be after the best players in the world ie Aussies and kiwis. Like for example no way will leeds invest in their youth structure if say Wigan and salford are throwing money about and bringing over the thurstons of this world etc for the fear of being left behind and the rest will follow hence we won't have any English players coming through hardly at all.My point being can you honestly see koukash investing in a youth structure? When he can go out and buy anyone he wants when he wants?

[Gates1]

An option to get a contenuios change through is to look at the problems that the oppersition think it causes and try and off set them.  It seems to me that the cons of this which have been highlighted are:

 

Impact on young players chances.

 

Personally I feel that the loss of academy sides had a bigger impact than up to 12 new players taking spots in SL, so why not do it in conjunction with bringing back optional academy sides.  You could engineer this by say putting in a caviete that it is compulsary for teams utilising a marque player to run an academy side.  You could also tax marque signings say 10% of salary and split this money between the none marquee signing teams who wish to run an academy (ring fencing it to the academy set up) 

 

Some clubs cant afford it

 

True!!! but the above will help improve the quality of the none marque teams in that you can operate a slightly smaller but higher quality squad if you have a cohort of physically developed 21 year olds to fall back on as oppose to 18 year olds now.  Additionally you would anticipate big money marque signings to be pivotal players which could free up a few of the better halfs, hookers and full backs to none marque clubs. 

 

Clubs bankrupting themselves

 

Put in a number of cheques and balances which have to be met before agreeing a marque signing and clubs need to take responsibility for themselves here a little. 

 

What constitutes a marque player? 

 

Cooper Cronk?  Jamie Soward?  Todd Carney?  Moi-Moi?  tough one really.  I think their is a lack of faith in the RL which causes an issue here otherwise an independant board could be set up to review them - might be the only option, the effectiveness will ultitely depend on the guidlines and quality of the board to rule on these.  Other than that you would have to go down a criteria IE internationals which becomes a minefield due to the weaker nations players becoming eligable.

 

Ultimately my club wont go down the marque route but implementing it with some of the above, particurlarly the academy idea may provide a silver lining.

 

I think the biggest issue though is the dynamics of this around relegation and promotion (funding splits/eligability, etc!).

[The Parksider]

For me I agree with those that say the common denominator effect is lowering the overall quality.  That is ensuring a salary cap to fit the poorest clubs potentially allows a more even competition but leads to lower quality, less star names and even less media or general fan interest.

 

 

The salary cap doesn't fit the poorest clubs at all.

 

If it did it'd be down near £1M to allow Wakefield to compete.

 

The decision on the salary cap is driven by what clubs want to pay which is again driven by what they make, get from SKY and what their chairman wants to throw in.

 

For the Marquee exemption the driver may be a back door way for the clubs who can afford more to cement themselves in the top eight.

 

It'd be telling if the vote goes say 7-5 and the marquee players aren't of the quality we are fantasising about!! 

[The Parksider]

Hetherington not only voted in favor of the marquee exemption he has tabled the same suggestion for vote. He is not only in favour of the idea, it's his idea. Hetherington Moran Davy and Lenegan all voted for the marquee exemption last time. As well as Koukash.

 

Thank you for that information. If it's 7-5 against then it maybe won't happen, but even if it did and it came in I'd be interested in your model of who you think they may get and how the fans would flock to see these people.

 

As has been suggested in this thread the Marquee player rule could well work for your five by allowing them to have a bigger salary cap to the value of a player each they could never compete with NRL/RU for, but get them an edge to stay in the eight

 

There is a world of difference between a few chairmen contriving to up their cap to keep themselves ahead of the game, and your view that they can be released to spend several hundred thousand on one superstar player each who they will actually get and will then up the crowds and provide a return on their investment.........

 

Who will the five be chasing? How much will they have to pay, how many more fans through the gate to get that return??

 

Or is there no real business plan here, just a ruse to keep ahead of the competition rather than enhance Superleagues attractiveness and profitability.

 

Please tell me your not in favour because Leeds will get another decent player and others wont??

 

How many fans would Gareth Widdop add to the Leeds crowds do you think?

[redjonn]

Considering how short a RL career is (even allowing for no career shortening injuries) the Salary Cap isn't very much given it covers 25 players.  If a team has a number of experienced good quality players once you remove that amount it doesn't leave much for the rest of the squad.

 

If the sport had a greater mass appeal and media appeal we would have significant endorsements money that would compensate - bearing in mid that the likes of top Premiership soccer will often see higher endorsements than salary. We do not.    

 

Thus the wider problem is that for most of the RL sports professional players over here have a salary and no or extremely limited endorsements.  I am guessing given the higher profile of the sport in Aussie Land their is a bigger endorsements market that further enhances earning.   Thus it is a massive gap.

 

So its not just salary cap it is also about attracting endorsement earning.  If a low salary cap further widens the lack of appeal of the sport through less quality and star dust then the salary cap may also be part of the problem of attracting more interest and hence overall earning potential.

 

Yep for sure international RL would help in the attraction of the sport and its coverage, etc etc.  So whilst I think the salary cap is ridiculously low given the commitment of our professional athletes it isn't the only aspect that impacts earnings.