Get more kids playing

[JM2010]

Watching the World Club Series has got me thinking about what the main focus of RL in this country should be. I think the main reason why the NRL is a higher standard than SL is simply because they have a much larger playing pool to choose from.

We all have our opinions about P and R/ restructuring, salary cap, mid season internationals, marquee signings, Toronto and Toulouse, BBC bias, lack of media coverage/marketing and attendances. However I think getting more young people playing the sport should be the RFL's primary focus as a bigger player pool should improve the quality and quantity of players coming into SL. I also believe that increasing the amount of kids playing the sport regularly at school and at amateur clubs will help give the game a bigger presence nationally and also allow new clubs, both semi pro and amateur, to be created as there will be more players to go around. It may also help with attendances as these young players and their parents could be attracted to attend live matches as they should be fans of the sport

[The Parksider]

I think getting more young people playing the sport should be the RFL's primary focus as a bigger player pool should improve the quality and quantity of players coming into SL. I also believe that increasing the amount of kids playing the sport regularly at school and at amateur clubs will help give the game a bigger presence nationally and also allow new clubs, both semi pro and amateur, to be created as there will be more players to go around. It may also help with attendances as these young players and their parents could be attracted to attend live matches as they should be fans of the sport

 

The game has known that for many years now.

 

Hunslet and Leeds were solidly behind Schools RL many years ago and the schools fed the junior and intermediate sides at the club that fed the "A" team" and the first team and all the people who ever played in this system if they didn't pull a first team jersey on they attended a Hunslet or Leeds match sometimes or regularly. 

 

Today schools still play but amateur clubs like Queens, Milford, Easts, Warriors, Parkside, Stanningley also run kids sides offering volunteers the chance to help run this system to it's maximum.

 

Leeds encourage it by involving the kids at half time on SL matchdays, creating other events for kids and sending their star players out to schools and junior club events nights.

 

The RFL do their part capturing sport England money to pay for development officers that got kids playing up and down the country, until the fund ran out

 

If you spend too much time on this forum you may well miss the fact that the whole game strives to involve the kids big time, but it battles with the big problem that kids automatically look at soccer first, it's what their mates do. If they don't the local union game is calling them, if they don't the cricket club will have them and the competition to get the kids playing a team sport is immense where the game is strongest, never mind places like Manchester, Liverpool, Sheffield, Doncaster, Bolton,Stockport etc etc where there aren't enough adults available or interested in organising kids RL.

 

Then there's the bottom line. Mummy and Daddy don't like to see junior out flat after a heavy tackle (one kid at a half time Headingley game was flat out for 10 minutes delaying the mighty Rhinos), so whilst the family love their RL, junior is playing soccer with his mates.

[Bearman]

Watching the World Club Series has got me thinking about what the main focus of RL in this country should be. I think the main reason why the NRL is a higher standard than SL is simply because they have a much larger playing pool to choose from.

We all have our opinions about P and R/ restructuring, salary cap, mid season internationals, marquee signings, Toronto and Toulouse, BBC bias, lack of media coverage/marketing and attendances. However I think getting more young people playing the sport should be the RFL's primary focus as a bigger player pool should improve the quality and quantity of players coming into SL. I also believe that increasing the amount of kids playing the sport regularly at school and at amateur clubs will help give the game a bigger presence nationally and also allow new clubs, both semi pro and amateur, to be created as there will be more players to go around. It may also help with attendances as these young players and their parents could be attracted to attend live matches as they should be fans of the sport

Yes, that sums up the problem.

There is a good case for a Nobel prize from whomever comes up with the solution.

[Gowers Magic Hands]

There was a "Who do you think you are" type programme on Welsh tv and Russell Crowe came to Wrexham to see where his ancestors came from and visit distant relatives. Nothing lost in approaching him.

[Gowers Magic Hands]

Sorry previous post in wrong thread. I'll move it to Crusaders thread.

[JM2010]

I agree with what your mostly saying Parky, a big part of what the sport does is to get kids playing. However, could more be done or different approaches used to increase the numbers? You used Leeds as an example who, along with Wigan and Hull have big numbers playing the game but how can other areas get to a similar level of participation?

[Spidey]

I agree with what your mostly saying Parky, a big part of what the sport does is to get kids playing. However, could more be done or different approaches used to increase the numbers? You used Leeds as an example who, along with Wigan and Hull have big numbers playing the game but how can other areas get to a similar level of participation?

NW Juniors (u7-u12) are reporting record numbers.

SKY try is programme that started last year targeting increased participation

Things are being done. We just have to be patient to see the results in about 10 years

The struggle is at u16-u18 where we see drop off as scholarship programme is sometimes at odds with the community game

[JM2010]

How are NW Juniors attracting more players? Is it something specific they are doing, or are individual towns/cities/clubs getting out there? How do other leagues Juniors compare?

[LordCharles]

How are NW Juniors attracting more players? Is it something specific they are doing, or are individual towns/cities/clubs getting out there? How do other leagues Juniors compare?

 

That is down to a number of things which include (but are not limited too) the hard work the community clubs and their volunteers put in, the NWC administration and its ethos, along with a progressive format which all involved find interesting, developmentally beneficial and most importantly FUN.

 

As we say in the NWC "Sunday is FUNday".

 

When you consider there are in excess of 1,000 children at U7's alone then it must be working!

[Lowdesert]

I agree with what your mostly saying Parky, a big part of what the sport does is to get kids playing. However, could more be done or different approaches used to increase the numbers? You used Leeds as an example who, along with Wigan and Hull have big numbers playing the game but how can other areas get to a similar level of participation?

This is a thread that is very close to my heart and beliefs. Development of RL in the schools is paramount. However,I am not so sure that Hull do have big numbers of children playing, compared to what they had 15-20 years ago.

Also, I am not convinced that those children are getting a standard of coaching and development that they deserve, based on what I have seen during my grandsons time in playing.

In my time, a dedicated RL Development Officer, in the Hull region, was funded by the Local Authorities. This is now not the case and finished around 17 years ago to be replaced by 'Sports Development' officers - which meant a collective approach to sports development within schools.

The RL Dev Officers work was also supplemented by RFL Regional and District Coaches (who coached coached through coaching quals) and also pro Club persons who visited schools, sporadically, and brought children into the Club, for specialised training sessions and oversight for future prospects.

It would be interesting to hear what structure is followed now, funding allocation given, whether regional stats are available and who from.

[Changa]

Perhaps the RFL could insist on clubs in Super League having to have a minimum of four example,50, 80 or 100 teams in their district /catchment area.

Or alternatively, as in Australia in the 70's when they had the 13 import rule, limit the number of players in their squads from outside areas, thereby forcing clubs to develop their own local talent. Perhaps not a coincidence that Australia's dominance coincided with this rule. Just a thought....

[Lounge Room Lizard]

Its not just the amount of kids/people playing the game. In Union England have easily the biggest amount of people playing its game. Yet they are way behind New Zealand in terms of winning World Cups and on winning games between the two nations. The basics need to be performed to perfection at an early age. We have seen Fulltime SL players who struggle to do the basics. Yes more numbers but the basics also need to be worked on across the board from junior to SL level.

[The Parksider]

Perhaps the RFL could insist on clubs in Super League having to have a minimum of four example,50, 80 or 100 teams in their district /catchment area. Just a thought....

 

I don't think the professional clubs can directly organise junior RL in the districts due to rules TWIG kindly pointed out.

 

The RFL can insist on anything they want and the clubs can organise to deliver it.

 

But little Johnny decides if he wants to play, or Mr. & Mrs Smith may decide something else for him.

 

All anyone can do is provide the opportunities and present them to the kids

[The Parksider]

I agree with what your mostly saying Parky, a big part of what the sport does is to get kids playing. However, could more be done or different approaches used to increase the numbers? You used Leeds as an example who, along with Wigan and Hull have big numbers playing the game but how can other areas get to a similar level of participation?

 

I'd go steady on "big numbers playing".

 

We all know the RFL spin numbers, and we all know that a kid doesn't have to do much more than occasional tag rugby league to be classed as an RL player.

 

What the game needs is schools who play RL and local amateur clubs who run junior sides.

 

Thus most kids get exposed to the game whether they like it or not, and if they like it then they get invited to go play junior league. It's the "pathway" we use.

 

Close to me is Horsforth School full of Rhinos fans and they play erm Rugby Union. If the kids really want to play league in recent years they could go to Milford but there'd be non of their mates there and kids want to play with their mates.

 

All I can say is clubs like Wigan and Leeds know exactly what the situation is and they do all they can, as Bearman says it's easy to point out the problem, the solution is another thing.

 

All I know is there is a big correlation between the big professional clubs and the development of youngsters into professional players. With limited money and appeal outside these areas all I can think of is ensure SL has a big quality competitive club sat in the middle of areas where we have a tradition of playing RL and hang on in there.

 

We have mostly have had that with Wigan, Hull, Saints, Wire, Catalans, Bradford, Leeds and I'd like to see Castleford in there too at the new ground, and these clubs should all have a policy actively for promoting and assisting junior RL, with dedicated staff sharing ideas, and linking into the schools and amateur game

 

I don't think that is an "idea" I think it's what the clubs are already trying to do. It may be they could do more of it smarter, I don't know.

 

RL world could investigate and report though?

[bamfordsbeans]

As usual its down to money.There has been a significant cut back on development officers in recent years whereas a lot of our rival sports have increased theirs.

Facilities is another key area.Although conference clubs and a few others have improved their clubhouses playing areas etc in recent years they are generally lacking when compared with the local union club.

[JM2010]

I agree that getting more schools playing and linking with local clubs is the best way to increase numbers but what is the best way to encourage schools to play? Training teachers to become coaches? Offering incentives to schools, sending development officers in? Local professional clubs sending players in and community clubs getting involved when there isn't any local professional clubs? Other than the champions schools competition is there any competitions where the schools play regular fixtures throughout a season? I know money is needed but could/ should it be increased at the expense of other areas that the RFL has a budget for? Could sponsors be found like SKY Try to help deliver development programmes?

[Mark S]

Compared to Union RL's facilities at amateur level are shocking. I know couple of RL fans in Hull who's kids play Union as they feel the facilities and general attitude to sport are much better.

I have seen kids RL games where the parents are shouting for their child to smack a player. I wouldn't want my kids anywhere near that sort of atmosphere.

[terrywebbisgod]

Compared to Union RL's facilities at amateur level are shocking. I know couple of RL fans in Hull who's kids play Union as they feel the facilities and general attitude to sport are much better.

I have seen kids RL games where the parents are shouting for their child to smack a player. I wouldn't want my kids anywhere near that sort of atmosphere.

Add to this coaches who think they are coaching SL/International teams. I've seen a coach telling 8year olds they'll never play for their club again because they WON by only 1 try, a coach getting a game abandoned for verbally abusing a young ref and plenty more shouting at players to "bang him out" etc.

[LordCharles]

Just to put a few things in to perspective..........

 

I can only speak from a NW position but from U7's-U14's in general everything is very good, teams play regularly, numbers are growing and more or less everything is positive.

 

That said, once you go up a year to U15's it starts to deteriorate very quickly.

 

As an example, last years NWC U15's Premier Division winners will not start the U16's season as the team has just folded. For reference it had 7 or 8 scholars in it.

 

Several other Premier Division/Division 1 teams at U15's and U16's struggle desperately to get one decent training session a week in, why?..........because they have upwards of 5 or 6 scholarship players in their teams, several have upwards of 10+.

 

This means that the 6-10 lads in any of these squads that are not scholars often attend training sessions with very low numbers and are lucky to see any of their scholarship team mates on any day other than a match day (Sunday).

 

The impact this has on the morale and enthusiasm of those players that are none scholars is significant and often they just say "whats the point anymore".

 

The structures put in place by the RFL at U15/16's Academy level are crippling the community game, which just magnifies the knock on effect further up the ladder i.e U18's and Open Age.

 

I have coached now for 22 seasons, primarily around the U14's-U18's age groups and can honestly say I have never seen the sport in such a state, with such a struggle for coaches and clubs to get players to training and match days, particularly at U15's, U16's and U18's.

 

The common denominator is the Scholarships/Academies, what the RFL/Pro clubs fail to realise is the impact it has on those players who are not scholars, it fragments their training and playing program, demotivates them and ultimately see's them move on to other interests as what they had previously (up to U14's) no longer exists!!!!!

 

The sad fact about all of this outside of what I have just said, is that the RFL's own statistics show that for every player that enters the Academy system at U15, only 1.25% go on to make a regular SL player.

 

But will the RFL listen?............Do they even care?.............What do you think?

[LordCharles]

A further example................

 

A team from my own club 2 seasons ago at U14's had 22/23 players............

 

At the end of the U14's season 9/10 players were taken into academy systems for the U15's season.

 

Currently the same team at U16's now has 16/17 registered players and 8/9 scholars.

 

I am fairly confident they have yet to have a training session in 2016 that has seen a double figure attendance and they now only train once a week due to the unavailability of players.

[The Parksider]

 

I can only speak from a NW position but from U7's-U14's in general everything is very good, teams play regularly, numbers are growing and more or less everything is positive.

 

That said, once you go up a year to U15's it starts to deteriorate very quickly.

 

The structures put in place by the RFL at U15/16's Academy level are crippling the community game, which just magnifies the knock on effect further up the ladder i.e U18's and Open Age.

 

What do you think?

 

There is a large amount of kids falling off playing football and rugby as they get to 14, 15, 16.

 

Of course this may be lessened if the SL club academies/scholarships lay off the kids.

 

But if they did that teams would still lose players to girls, booze and the general freedoms teenagers get to do other things.

 

Including quality young players.

 

So can we blame clubs who desperately need talent to nurture towards being professionals for moving in before kids move out?

 

This is a catch 22 surely?

 

For me we have to put the SL clubs first on this issue, they need the British talent to help keep the game vibrant? Restrict the SL clubs and in the end the amateuer game will suffer anyway?

[LordCharles]

There is a large amount of kids falling off playing football and rugby as they get to 14, 15, 16.

 

Of course this may be lessened if the SL club academies/scholarships lay off the kids.

 

But if they did that teams would still lose players to girls, booze and the general freedoms teenagers get to do other things.

 

Including quality young players.

 

So can we blame clubs who desperately need talent to nurture towards being professionals for moving in before kids move out?

 

This is a catch 22 surely?

 

For me we have to put the SL clubs first on this issue, they need the British talent to help keep the game vibrant? Restrict the SL clubs and in the end the amateuer game will suffer anyway?

 

Parky you are missing the point!

 

WE know about retention and drop off rates and ALL the associated factors.

 

The problem with what is happening at 15's and 16's is that drop off/retention (or lack of it) is being accelerated further by factors such as Academy systems and the fact the U16's now start their community season 2-3 months before they all leave school!!!

 

And don't worry about the SL clubs and RFL putting themselves first, they have and this is the result!!!!

 

U15's Premier Division Champions 2015 - FOLDED inside the last week or so!

 

How can it be catch 22 and how are we restricting SL clubs when their Academy systems only convert 1.25% of the players they take in at U15's in to regular SL players????

 

Thats a successful development structure and program that is worth sticking with is it?

[LordCharles]

 

So can we blame clubs who desperately need talent to nurture towards being professionals for moving in before kids move out?

 

 

 

 

Seriously?

 

The Talent ID system we have in RL is one of the worst in sport!!!

 

Observational bias is huge when it comes to identifcation and selection, by that I mean the biggest,fastest, strongest are always brought into the Academy systems.

 

This is a direct consequence of poor understanding of Talent and it's identification, development and selection.

 

The Relative Age Effect is a considerable factor that most Scouts could'nt even begin to tell you about, hence why SL academies are massively populated by Q1 and Q2 players.

 

The statistics alone indicate we have not got a clue what we are doing when it comes to Talent ID.

 

A certain SL club in 2015...........

 

U16's Academy

 

Q1 - 51%

Q2 - 31%

Q3 - 10%

Q4 - 8%

 

First grade Squad

 

Q1 - 35%

Q2 - 15%

Q3 - 8%

Q4 - 42%

 

 

Unfortunately that picture is very similar across most SL clubs and we wonder why we are struggling to produce talent?

 

Further supported by my earlier point that the conversion rate of U15's Academy players to regular SL players is a ridiculous 1.25%!

[JM2010]

What ideas do you have to help stop reduce this drop off or its impact on the one's who want to carry on playing and haven't been taken onto a scholarship?

[JM2010]

As young people now have to stay in education until 18 could colleges be used to help keep them playing?