England 4N and WC Preparations

[Dave T]

We slag the clubs, but we have regularly staged mid season internationals or War of the Roses games and players have generally been released.

[Scubby]

Wouldn't the clubs have some say in it? Not sure if an agreement between the RFL & RLIF would suffice?

No, your plan wouldn't hurt all for a one off. But for a one off, clubs would 'kick up' more and you might have the withholding scenario that has just gone on down under. Our clubs are still not as strong in depth as NRL.

Whatever the 'plan' is it must give us the best shot to win. I would like to see Test series more regular. Dates and teams set in stone, year on year.

 

The RLIF rule is that clubs should release players for internationals. Now it is up to the RLIF to enforce that. In 2002 we played a test down under and 21 players made the trip from the UK. Unfortunately, we were pants in 2002 and got spanked. Now is a different beast as we are genuinely competitive and we would only be sending around 10-12 players over max.

[Lowdesert]

The RLIF rule is that clubs should release players for internationals. Now it is up to the RLIF to enforce that. In 2002 we played a test down under and 21 players made the trip from the UK. Unfortunately, we were pants in 2002 and got spanked. Now is a different beast as we are genuinely competitive and we would only be sending around 10-12 players over max.

Ok. The RLF influence the RLIF and they enforce. I'm sold.

I think we have always been competitive but preparation and management haven't always been what they should have. Nor has the mindset of the players been what it could have been, that's why I thought it stupid to change the coach as we're on a roll.

War of the Roses, or something of that sort, would have been the ideal 'selector'. Why not re-introduce?

[Cumbrian Fanatic]

Genuine question, how many internationals should we reasonably be playing a year excluding World cups? This year we will have min 3 at the 4N with possibly the final and though nothing has been annouced maybe a warm up giving 5 max. I'd have thought most years we should be playing 5 minimum with a 3 match series 1 warm up and a mid season test

[Tommygilf]

England should play France in France mid season IMO, at the same time Scotland/Ireland/Wales and one of Serbia/Italy/Russia/Spain play eachother. Concept could possibly expanded longterm to a six nations style competition.

[Dave T]

Genuine question, how many internationals should we reasonably be playing a year excluding World cups? This year we will have min 3 at the 4N with possibly the final and though nothing has been annouced maybe a warm up giving 5 max. I'd have thought most years we should be playing 5 minimum with a 3 match series 1 warm up and a mid season test

that should be a bare minimum. The other issue is around home games. The international game is quite frankly a joke if test playing nations are not playing home tests.

[Scubby]

that should be a bare minimum. The other issue is around home games. The international game is quite frankly a joke if test playing nations are not playing home tests.

 

I would suggest England players need to be playing 6+ tests per year. There is nothing stopping us hosting a two-test series prior to 4 Nations or other major series. This would be especially relevant if we had a series overseas. Tonga, PNG, Samoa, Fiji and France are all now viable opponents. If planned well it would pay for itself and give fans a look at other nations.

[Tommygilf]

I would suggest England players need to be playing 6+ tests per year. There is nothing stopping us hosting a two-test series prior to 4 Nations or other major series. This would be especially relevant if we had a series overseas. Tonga, PNG, Samoa, Fiji and France are all now viable opponents. If planned well it would pay for itself and give fans a look at other nations.

Completely agree, if Australia want to ignore the international game then England and NZ have to take it up to play the Pacific, European and North American nations and grow the game.

[Scubby]

Completely agree, if Australia want to ignore the international game then England and NZ have to take it up to play the Pacific, European and North American nations and grow the game.

 

I would use the cricket model where England play the likes of Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe in short 1 or 2 game series as preparation for The Ashes or a 5-test series against the likes of South Africa. 

 

Eng v Samoa (Tonga or Fiji) would get 15-20k at Headingley or a similar sized venue. It would cover the tour costs for sure and give the Pacific guys something to keep them locked into their nation.

 

It does't have to be "the next series is down under let's put the shutters up" as happened in 2014. Fans here would love to see a new side each year on rotation. When was the last time England (GB) played PNG at home for example?

[Tommygilf]

I would use the cricket model where England play the likes of Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe in short 1 or 2 game series as preparation for The Ashes or a 5-test series against the likes of South Africa.

Eng v Samoa (Tonga or Fiji) would get 15-20k at Headingley or a similar sized venue. It would cover the tour costs for sure and give the Pacific guys something to keep them locked into their nation.

It does't have to be "the next series is down under let's put the shutters up" as happened in 2014.

Exactly, Radrada clearly sees the financial aspect of playing for oz as an incentive. I suppose we have to try get the fiji/samoa/tonga/png/cook islanders to tour whenever they can, France, Canada, USA, Jamaica, England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland must be open to these tours too. Raising the importance of playing for these nations

[Tommygilf]

We can definitely learn a lot from Cricket and Rugby Union in this respect

[Dave T]

The Aussies are putting more effort than the RFL into international rl right now.

[Dave T]

I would suggest England players need to be playing 6+ tests per year. There is nothing stopping us hosting a two-test series prior to 4 Nations or other major series. This would be especially relevant if we had a series overseas. Tonga, PNG, Samoa, Fiji and France are all now viable opponents. If planned well it would pay for itself and give fans a look at other nations.

yep. When Down Under in the Winter we should have Summer tests here. When here in the Winter go overseas in the summer.

In 2014 not being able to see England RL live in the UK was mental.

[Tommygilf]

yep. When Down Under in the Winter we should have Summer tests here. When here in the Winter go overseas in the summer.

In 2014 not being able to see England RL live in the UK was mental.

I'd be happy at the moment with one game each away to France and Wales mid season, allowing them to call on their full contingent of NRL players. Outside of that the England knights should be used to play smaller league nations such as Scotland and Ireland in smaller venues concurrently to the other games, mutually beneficial to all nations.

[Cumbrian Fanatic]

Exactly, Radrada clearly sees the financial aspect of playing for oz as an incentive. I suppose we have to try get the fiji/samoa/tonga/png/cook islanders to tour whenever they can, France, Canada, USA, Jamaica,

England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland must be open to these tours too. Raising the importance of playing for these

nations

Yes, I've always thought that we should bring over 2 or 3 teams out of PNG, Samoa, Fiji or Cook Islands who as well as a game against England could each play a couple more games against Wales, France, Scotland or Ireland

[Lowdesert]

I would suggest England players need to be playing 6+ tests per year. There is nothing stopping us hosting a two-test series prior to 4 Nations or other major series. This would be especially relevant if we had a series overseas. Tonga, PNG, Samoa, Fiji and France are all now viable opponents. If planned well it would pay for itself and give fans a look at other nations.

6+ games year on year would be a big ask. Are you basing this on the existing SL structure?

[Scubby]

6+ games year on year would be a big ask. Are you basing this on the existing SL structure?

 

Yes, international RL just needs to organise itself - elite players can miss a couple of games as they do for Origin in the NRL. Looking at 1-2 games in mid-season with 4-5 after the GF it wouldn't have a big impact on SL at all. 

[Tommygilf]

Once Toulouse establish themselves in the top two tiers then france become even more viable as genuine opposition.

[roughyedspud]

The Aussies are putting more effort than the RFL into international rl right now.

Effort??.....into totally ruining it!

[Lowdesert]

Yes, international RL just needs to organise itself - elite players can miss a couple of games as they do for Origin in the NRL. Looking at 1-2 games in mid-season with 4-5 after the GF it wouldn't have a big impact on SL at all.

No doubt you're right. We need more internationals but IMO 6+, year on year is too much. Elite players would be missing more than a couple of games.

We need year on year internationals with a date set in stone. This provides a good avenue for sponsorship and media agreements plus makes it easier for the RFL.

The 4N is a good concept, which I believe should Include the top 4 ranking teams, based on the previous year. We could use this and 'another' International through the year. This would make 5 in total for the England team, max, with the 4N replaced with the WC every 4th year. It would be interesting to get an international players thoughts.

To get an 'international' concept to fruition is another thing. Actually, the RLIF only have control over the WC and I believe the RFL run the 4N. The NRL organise the Oz/NZ and Pacific type internationals. Can you see how much the international RL scene is disjointed with many conflicts of interest?

RL isn't recognised by most Countries or the Olympic Committee. Together with the aforementioned mess of RLs 'governing' bodies, is there any wonder that the application to SportAccord failed? This is one of the reasons I previously posted on a 'merger/buy out' by/of the NRL to unify the sport etc. If you had this unification you would have all the strength you needed for internationals Scubby. In fact, you might get a job with them!

[Dave T]

Effort??.....into totally ruining it!

if England hadnt played Fa'asavalu and Chase over the last decade we would be able to take the moral high ground.

Who do England play this week?

[Dave T]

No doubt you're right. We need more internationals but IMO 6+, year on year is too much. Elite players would be missing more than a couple of games.

We need year on year internationals with a date set in stone. This provides a good avenue for sponsorship and media agreements plus makes it easier for the RFL.

The 4N is a good concept, which I believe should Include the top 4 ranking teams, based on the previous year. We could use this and 'another' International through the year. This would make 5 in total for the England team, max, with the 4N replaced with the WC every 4th year. It would be interesting to get an international players thoughts.

To get an 'international' concept to fruition is another thing. Actually, the RLIF only have control over the WC and I believe the RFL run the 4N. The NRL organise the Oz/NZ and Pacific type internationals. Can you see how much the international RL scene is disjointed with many conflicts of interest?

RL isn't recognised by most Countries or the Olympic Committee. Together with the aforementioned mess of RLs 'governing' bodies, is there any wonder that the application to SportAccord failed? This is one of the reasons I previously posted on a 'merger/buy out' by/of the NRL to unify the sport etc. If you had this unification you would have all the strength you needed for internationals Scubby. In fact, you might get a job with them!

they already play 4, we are talking a couple of midcseason tests.

[Scubby]

No doubt you're right. We need more internationals but IMO 6+, year on year is too much. Elite players would be missing more than a couple of games.

We need year on year internationals with a date set in stone. This provides a good avenue for sponsorship and media agreements plus makes it easier for the RFL.

The 4N is a good concept, which I believe should Include the top 4 ranking teams, based on the previous year. We could use this and 'another' International through the year. This would make 5 in total for the England team, max, with the 4N replaced with the WC every 4th year. It would be interesting to get an international players thoughts.

To get an 'international' concept to fruition is another thing. Actually, the RLIF only have control over the WC and I believe the RFL run the 4N. The NRL organise the Oz/NZ and Pacific type internationals. Can you see how much the international RL scene is disjointed with many conflicts of interest?

RL isn't recognised by most Countries or the Olympic Committee. Together with the aforementioned mess of RLs 'governing' bodies, is there any wonder that the application to SportAccord failed? This is one of the reasons I previously posted on a 'merger/buy out' by/of the NRL to unify the sport etc. If you had this unification you would have all the strength you needed for internationals Scubby. In fact, you might get a job with them!

 

Players already play at the end of the season - they wouldn't miss any club games for this. We are talking about a fortnight off mid-season. The 4N is gone BTW. This year will be the last 4N tournament.

[JoneslessBishop]

Sounds to me like the preparation mid-season will be the same as last year I.e. NRL based England coach comes over in June to meet English based players, having already met the NRL based players. We won that test series, so seemed adequate.

No announcement of our warm up test yet. We played France last year and won 80-0. I'm sure can organise a similarly testing warm up! Likely to be France again as Wales and Ireland have qualifiers and we will be playing Scotland in 4 Nations.

Obviously Oz and NZ will be hitting the straps pretty hard having played each other mid-season and end of season in Perth, but not sure what our other options are given the above and our packed domestic schedule. Hopefully that will change with a mid-season test against NZ from 2018.

At that point Oz will have no mid-season test and we will, so hopefully things are going in the right direction for us.

Might I suggest therefore we are reckless enough to remain optimistic? Bennett and Betts are no mugs, and let's keep believing so until proven otherwise?

[Scubby]

Sounds to me like the preparation mid-season will be the same as last year I.e. NRL based England coach comes over in June to meet English based players, having already met the NRL based players. We won that test series, so seemed adequate.

No announcement of our warm up test yet. We played France last year and won 80-0. I'm sure can organise a similarly testing warm up! Likely to be France again as Wales and Ireland have qualifiers and we will be playing Scotland in 4 Nations.

Obviously Oz and NZ will be hitting the straps pretty hard having played each other mid-season and end of season in Perth, but not sure what our other options are given the above and our packed domestic schedule. Hopefully that will change with a mid-season test against NZ from 2018.

At that point Oz will have no mid-season test and we will, so hopefully things are going in the right direction for us.

Might I suggest therefore we are reckless enough to remain optimistic? Bennett and Betts are no mugs, and let's keep believing so until proven otherwise?

 

I agree England should look to be in the final of one or both of the 4Nations and World Cup. I believe with Bennett we could well get over the line in one of those.