Question Time - 6 July

[ckn]

Is it just me or is Question Time utterly unwatchable tonight?

EVERYTHING is sensationalised and there is no middle ground allowed.  

It seems to be "here's my narrow interpretation of the point and here's why that narrow view makes everything else silly"

Also, if it was good enough to boot out the Corbynite in the audience last week, it should have been good enough to boot out the angry "self employed" person attacking the Labour MP. 

[Ramite]

Haven't watched it in a while , switched over to it for a few minutes. Turned it back onto something else . I saw the angry man, it's unwatchable , the format has had its day. Time to try something else.

[Futtocks]

27 minutes ago, ckn said:

Is it just me or is Question Time utterly unwatchable tonight?

EVERYTHING is sensationalised and there is no middle ground allowed.  

It seems to be "here's my narrow interpretation of the point and here's why that narrow view makes everything else silly"

Also, if it was good enough to boot out the Corbynite in the audience last week, it should have been good enough to boot out the angry "self employed" person attacking the Labour MP. 

Why did you bother typing the word "tonight" in your first sentence?

The programme has been unwatchable for years. A bunch of self-important windbag dullards, determined to drown out any contrary view... and that's just the audience.

[Bedford Roughyed]

Spoilers!! I'm still watching!

 

[Bedford Roughyed]

It wasn't a classic. 

[Oxford]

12 hours ago, ckn said:

Is it just me or is Question Time utterly unwatchable tonight?

EVERYTHING is sensationalised and there is no middle ground allowed.  

It seems to be "here's my narrow interpretation of the point and here's why that narrow view makes everything else silly"

Also, if it was good enough to boot out the Corbynite in the audience last week, it should have been good enough to boot out the angry "self employed" person attacking the Labour MP. 

To be honest ckn it's all a bit like watchin' the other oval ball game for the little moment the programme lights up the dross you have to go through makes it barely worthwhile.

Your point about chucking the hecklers out is well made but one crossed middle class notions and the other is used to make "good" tv!

You're not likely to see any middle ground at the moment because the lines have been drawn in this latest conflict.

6NLN

[Trojan]

8 hours ago, Ramite said:

Haven't watched it in a while , switched over to it for a few minutes. Turned it back onto something else . I saw the angry man, it's unwatchable , the format has had its day. Time to try something else.

Stopped watching years ago. AQ on R4 Friday nights with the "other" Dimbleby is far superior.

[Tongs ya bas]

Watched for a short while because someone who has kipped at our house was on the panel. The quality of the audience set the standard if rhetoric below that of a 1970s tap room

[Tommygilf]

Thought it was telling how people laughed at the suggestion Corbyn campaigned strongly for remain. The arguments put forward by Burgon seemed to be that Labour's "Hard Brexit" would be less bad than tory "hard brexit", though all it showed was that both parties were still as divided on this subject as ever. Tariff free Single Market access vs membership of the single market (Labour dilemma/split) sounds awfully familiar to... erm... tariff free single market access vs membership of the single market (Tory dilemma/split).

Both parties are in a PR war over who is most trusted on this. "Jobs First Brexit" is just as empty as "brexit means brexit" but alas. The brexiteers currently at the head of the Labour party have by stealth been able to strengthen their position and commit themselves to Brexit. Sad that many voted for them thinking they would stop it, but also sad that people blinker out things about those they support that they don't like. I knew Corbyn was anti EU because I've been to his rallies and looked at his voting record, yet others who support his leftist politics (including politics professors etc.) refuse repeatedly to acknowledge that he has had this stance all his political career. People are slowly realising this and a chuka umuna/blair/clegg centrist party could be on the horizon. 

The question of student debt is becoming a major issue for both parties. Torys are realising that mums (historically a strong base for the conservative party) aren't wanting their kids to be lumbered with large debt. This is also a PR flop by the tories, who could have instead called it a graduate tax.

Thought the panel were alright, some insightful points made by the audience, some less insightful; standard episode overall.

[Tongs ya bas]

Dads aren't wanting to see their kids lumbered with debt either

[ckn]

10 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Thought it was telling how people laughed at the suggestion Corbyn campaigned strongly for remain. The arguments put forward by Burgon seemed to be that Labour's "Hard Brexit" would be less bad than tory "hard brexit", though all it showed was that both parties were still as divided on this subject as ever. Tariff free Single Market access vs membership of the single market (Labour dilemma/split) sounds awfully familiar to... erm... tariff free single market access vs membership of the single market (Tory dilemma/split).

Both parties are in a PR war over who is most trusted on this. "Jobs First Brexit" is just as empty as "brexit means brexit" but alas. The brexiteers currently at the head of the Labour party have by stealth been able to strengthen their position and commit themselves to Brexit. Sad that many voted for them thinking they would stop it, but also sad that people blinker out things about those they support that they don't like. I knew Corbyn was anti EU because I've been to his rallies and looked at his voting record, yet others who support his leftist politics (including politics professors etc.) refuse repeatedly to acknowledge that he has had this stance all his political career. People are slowly realising this and a chuka umuna/blair/clegg centrist party could be on the horizon. 

The question of student debt is becoming a major issue for both parties. Torys are realising that mums (historically a strong base for the conservative party) aren't wanting their kids to be lumbered with large debt. This is also a PR flop by the tories, who could have instead called it a graduate tax.

Thought the panel were alright, some insightful points made by the audience, some less insightful; standard episode overall.

The thing on student debt is that graduates actually do pay it back.  A typical graduate earns more than a typical non-graduate with way over half of people in the higher tax bracket being graduates.  They pay it back by earning more and therefore paying it back by their increased tax burden.

The politicians who think it's fair to double tax students, first in advance for their fees and second in retrospect in taxation for earning more, really have pulled up the ladder behind themselves, many from the times when they not only had free education but got grants as well.

What they won't tackle is that the academic bar is too low.  I'm not talking about restoring it to 1980s levels but a fair in-between would do, it's surely fairer to institute an academic higher bar than penalise everyone with fees because they haven't the courage to challenge the academic bar issue.

[Tommygilf]

56 minutes ago, ckn said:

The thing on student debt is that graduates actually do pay it back.  A typical graduate earns more than a typical non-graduate with way over half of people in the higher tax bracket being graduates.  They pay it back by earning more and therefore paying it back by their increased tax burden.

The politicians who think it's fair to double tax students, first in advance for their fees and second in retrospect in taxation for earning more, really have pulled up the ladder behind themselves, many from the times when they not only had free education but got grants as well.

What they won't tackle is that the academic bar is too low.  I'm not talking about restoring it to 1980s levels but a fair in-between would do, it's surely fairer to institute an academic higher bar than penalise everyone with fees because they haven't the courage to challenge the academic bar issue.

I completely agree, but sadly with the large financial figure attached to University students, I can't see universities doing anything to reduce the number of students. 

Devaluing of degrees is a problem as you say. Plenty of graduates are not going to be entering "graduate jobs" because a lot of degrees carry little value. 

Additionally, the costs of individual degrees vary massively. One person's history degree which involves minimal contact hours but lots on individual study does not "cost" as much as a degree in industrial chemistry, which requires facilities, technicians, and equipment. Standardising those at £9000 makes little sense also.

One person said last night something that resonated, "degrees should be academically difficult but financially easy". I feel that is something most people would agree with, though the "everyone should go to uni" brigade would come out and presumtuously speak on behalf of those who don't want to go to uni. They are a loud bunch and with support from the academic institutions themselves, they will be hard to overturn.

[Oxford]

The story of grants v Student loans is very reminiscent of the Pilgrim Fathers who went to America in search of religious freedom and found they liked it so much they didn't want to let anyone else have it.

 

5NLN