Need a new kicker.

[CanadianRugger]

61% completion rate is atrocious.  I echo Kayakman's original post.  I like Brierley and want him on the pitch but Toronto need to find a more consistent kicker.  Tbh, I found Hall was inconsistent off the tee last season but Brierley has been even worse.

Top level kickers should be hitting 80% success rate at a minimum.  61% is acceptable for a backup but not for the first choice kicker.  

If you watch the other code of rugby at all where kicking is even more important, most of the top international teams have kickers approaching the 90% completion rate.

[krakauer]

7 hours ago, CanadianRugger said:

61% completion rate is atrocious.  I echo Kayakman's original post.  I like Brierley and want him on the pitch but Toronto need to find a more consistent kicker.  Tbh, I found Hall was inconsistent off the tee last season but Brierley has been even worse.

Top level kickers should be hitting 80% success rate at a minimum.  61% is acceptable for a backup but not for the first choice kicker.  

If you watch the other code of rugby at all where kicking is even more important, most of the top international teams have kickers approaching the 90% completion rate.

Yeah, but that is based on unrefined statistics where no account is being taken for kick field position. I've seen many SL games with lot of unconverted sideline tries (i.e. check 'St. Helens 2018 season' on youtube). For +80% rate you'd be looking at NRL probably. Not sure about RU. Plus, if RB was that bad I doubt Paul Rowley would still keep him as a kicker.

[CanadianRugger]

41 minutes ago, krakauer said:

Yeah, but that is based on unrefined statistics where no account is being taken for kick field position. I've seen many SL games with lot of unconverted sideline tries (i.e. check 'St. Helens 2018 season' on youtube). For +80% rate you'd be looking at NRL probably. Not sure about RU. Plus, if RB was that bad I doubt Paul Rowley would still keep him as a kicker.

No it's not, 80% is the elite standard in Rugby.  You can peg individual games as one off's but we are almost halfway through the season now.  We should have a pretty good idea of where the teams are at.  I did a breakdown of Super League Stats, I can also do Championship one:

You can see that the elite standard at Super League Level is roughly 80%.  Castleford is a prime example of what good kicking can do for a team.  They have scored less tries than Leeds, Hull FC, Trinity, Widnes and Hull KR but are sitting at fourth in the standings thanks to a pretty accurate kicker.  Likewise, Rhinos, who have scored more tries and taken more shots at goal are behind.  The League average is 77.5% at the moment, so my magic 80% number isn't far off.

Here are stats for the top 10 Kickers in Super League:

The Average is 79.5% Completion rate.  So again, 80% should be completely expected from a Super League standard team's top kicker.

[krakauer]

55 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

No it's not, 80% is the elite standard in Rugby.  You can peg individual games as one off's but we are almost halfway through the season now.  We should have a pretty good idea of where the teams are at.  I did a breakdown of Super League Stats, I can also do Championship one:

You can see that the elite standard at Super League Level is roughly 80%.  Castleford is a prime example of what good kicking can do for a team.  They have scored less tries than Leeds, Hull FC, Trinity, Widnes and Hull KR but are sitting at fourth in the standings thanks to a pretty accurate kicker.  Likewise, Rhinos, who have scored more tries and taken more shots at goal are behind.  The League average is 77.5% at the moment, so my magic 80% number isn't far off.

Here are stats for the top 10 Kickers in Super League:

The Average is 79.5% Completion rate.  So again, 80% should be completely expected from a Super League standard team's top kicker.

 

That is a nice breakdown. Thank you. 

We don't know how many of those were sideline conversions and this is how this thread started: RB's scoreless converting during Dewsbury Rams game (Kayakman can confirm)?

Please throw in Championship kicks since you are at it.

 

 

 

 

[Kayakman]

2 hours ago, krakauer said:

 

That is a nice breakdown. Thank you. 

We don't know how many of those were sideline conversions and this is how this thread started: RB's scoreless converting during Dewsbury Rams game (Kayakman can confirm)?

Please throw in Championship kicks since you are at it.

 

 

 

 

Look the guy doesn't have the leg or consistent accuracy to covert the harder kicks...up close and closer to 90 degrees he does Okay...great drop kicker.

I don't think he converted any of the corner tries in the Dewsbury game....nice drop goal though.

[RoyBoy295]

Tries scored in the corners reflect a lot on a scored conversion. Great tries, but it does make it harder for any kicker to be kicking it from the sidelines. 

Utilise the middle more.

[Kayakman]

On 4/18/2018 at 1:28 PM, RoyBoy295 said:

Tries scored in the corners reflect a lot on a scored conversion. Great tries, but it does make it harder for any kicker to be kicking it from the sidelines. 

Utilise the middle more.

We only seem to be able to score easily up the middle when we play Leigh....we just seem to be able to stroll right into the end zone on our own time against Leigh...odd.

[krakauer]

3 hours ago, Kayakman said:

We only seem to be able to score easily up the middle when we play Leigh....we just seem to be able to stroll right into the end zone on our own time against Leigh...odd.

errr... we only played them once

[RoyBoy295]

I didnt mention  against Leigh, i was more directed at general games.

 

You have a Leigh obsession...odd

[Kayakman]

1 hour ago, krakauer said:

errr... we only played them once

 

55 minutes ago, RoyBoy295 said:

I didnt mention  against Leigh, i was more directed at general games.

 

You have a Leigh obsession...odd

Getting psychologically prepared for the next meeting!

[Krzzystuff]

On 2018-04-16 at 9:25 AM, Kayakman said:

I got nothing against Brierley...he is playing well and a valuable asset to the team...but his conversion kicking is a clear liability....he has been given more than a fair chance....time for someone else to have a 'Go' before it actually becomes critical.   Probably O'Brien but maybe Bussey.

Lol on Bussey but definitely need someone else to take over the kicking game and O'Brian is the one I believe.

Just came back from holidays and man has a lot happend

[RobertAM]

who's eating crow after that kick at summer bash to beat Leigh?..attaboy RB!

[clogdance]

Just go and buy one..it's what you do best ! 

[Kayakman]

20 minutes ago, clogdance said:

Just go and buy one..it's what you do best ! 

We don't need to buy one...we got angel face Bussey as a backup!

[clogdance]

nice one !

[clogdance]

I'm watching you Kayakman....says 2 Leythers !!!!

[RayCee]

Years ago in RL, goal kickers were more highly prized. There were teams that would stick a fantastic kicker on the wing just for his kicking. The problem is that teams today are more likely to run at him if the defence is suspect. Nowhere to hide in the modern game. 

The difference over a season with good or poor kicking is considerable. The stats don't look good for Brierley. O'Brien is a useful kicker, so why not give him a go. Even if he does no better, it's handy to have two practiced kickers to cover for injury or form dips.

[Kayakman]

8 hours ago, RayCee said:

Years ago in RL, goal kickers were more highly prized. There were teams that would stick a fantastic kicker on the wing just for his kicking. The problem is that teams today are more likely to run at him if the defence is suspect. Nowhere to hide in the modern game. 

The difference over a season with good or poor kicking is considerable. The stats don't look good for Brierley. O'Brien is a useful kicker, so why not give him a go. Even if he does no better, it's handy to have two practiced kickers to cover for injury or form dips.

Correct!

[Kayakman]

I see last game they had O'Brien kicking for touch instead of Brierley who did Okay on penalities/conversions.   O'Brien has way more leg than Brierley for distance that is for sure.

[CanadianRugger]

Brierley's kicking off the tee has been much better in recent weeks.

[Kayakman]

1 hour ago, CanadianRugger said:

Brierley's kicking off the tee has been much better in recent weeks.

Its good that they took the kicking for touch away from him...smart move by Rowley...allows him to concentrate on his tee kicking.

[Kayakman]

On 6/13/2018 at 8:13 AM, CanadianRugger said:

Brierley's kicking off the tee has been much better in recent weeks.

Brierley not playing yesterday so O'Brien took over duties....he kicked very well and one would think has earned the job, more accurate and more leg than Brierley....will be interesting to see what Rowley does.   O'Brien made a very strong case to be the kicker (#1) yesterday....

If I was the coach I would give the job to O'Brien.

[RayCee]

On 5/30/2018 at 2:46 PM, RayCee said:

Over a season with good or poor kicking is considerable. The stats don't look good for Brierley. O'Brien is a useful kicker, so why not give him a go. Even if he does no better, it's handy to have two practiced kickers to cover for injury or form dips.

I have never quoted myself before, but there's always a first time. Nice to see O'Brien kicking so well. 

I do talk to myself often,  or so my wife says. Here's a personal conversation I just had: 

Me: Well picked Ray, re O'Brien's kicking.

Me: Well, thank you. I like to think I have a nose for these things.

Me: No problem. Keep up the good work.

Me: I will.

That's one thing about talking to yourself, it rarely ends up in an argument. 

[deluded pom?]

14 hours ago, RayCee said:

I have never quoted myself before, but there's always a first time. Nice to see O'Brien kicking so well. 

I do talk to myself often,  or so my wife says. Here's a personal conversation I just had: 

Me: Well picked Ray, re O'Brien's kicking.

Me: Well, thank you. I like to think I have a nose for these things.

Me: No problem. Keep up the good work.

Me: I will.

That's one thing about talking to yourself, it rarely ends up in an argument. 

I also talk to myself a lot Ray. I'm actually talking to my wife but she ignores me a lot so I end up talking to myself.

[manu266]

14 hours ago, RayCee said:

I have never quoted myself before, but there's always a first time. Nice to see O'Brien kicking so well. 

I do talk to myself often,  or so my wife says. Here's a personal conversation I just had: 

Me: Well picked Ray, re O'Brien's kicking.

Me: Well, thank you. I like to think I have a nose for these things.

Me: No problem. Keep up the good work.

Me: I will.

That's one thing about talking to yourself, it rarely ends up in an argument. 

They say talking to yourself is good, responding to yourself is pretty bad though...