Licenced Leagues Clubs

[Sports Prophet]

Most on this forum will know that professional NSW RL clubs have established licenced members clubs that turnover multi million dollars a year. 

Is there any particular reason why this model was never established for UK RL clubs?

[Bomb Jack]

7 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Most on this forum will know that professional NSW RL clubs have established licenced members clubs that turnover multi million dollars a year. 

Is there any particular reason why this model was never established for UK RL clubs?

Different Country, different Culture I guess....

 

 

[Sports Prophet]

4 minutes ago, Bomb Jack said:

Different Country, different Culture I guess....

 

 

Well, I was hoping for more than a guess BJ.

[Padge]

31 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Most on this forum will know that professional NSW RL clubs have established licenced members clubs that turnover multi million dollars a year. 

Is there any particular reason why this model was never established for UK RL clubs?

Aren't the Australian clubs based on gambling for their profits something that we wouldn't  allow in this country

[Southerner80]

2 minutes ago, Padge said:

Aren't the Australian clubs based on gambling for their profits something that we wouldn't  allow in this country

Ive had that impression too that the revenue model is much around pokies ie fruit machine's. I remember Russell Crowe said something about them being a cancer on families.... 

[interchangeofficial]

The Leagues club model worked very well in the 80s and 90s when slot machines provided massive profit for the clubs who then funded rugby league.

This is no longer the preferred model of NRL clubs as the profits are no longer as large as they once were and the social problems associated with it obviously are not good.

 

 

 

 

[Luckycreed]

Leagues Clubs were up until about twenty years ago unique to NSW because only in that state were gaming machines legal in licensed clubs.There not quite the cash cow they once were because gaming machines are now legal in Pubs so licensed clubs don;t have a monopoly over them any more.but thy are still a huge source of revenue not just for Rugby League but for sport in general.

I don't know about it not being the preferred model, been to Panthers recently it;s a suburban Casino New castle have always  struggled financially because of no League club support.True  Sydney NRL clubs thanks to a large increase in tv revenue are less reliant on revenue from them. to fund their NRL team but still very reliant on them to fund junior football, and non NRL clubs are enormously dependent on leagues club revenue, without it third tier football would be amateur

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, Padge said:

Aren't the Australian clubs based on gambling for their profits something that we wouldn't  allow in this country

I’m not certain whether you are aware or not Paige, so I will clarify in case. These clubs are not for profit. Any positive cashflow is distributed back into the club or community schemes, traditionally grassroots RL being the forefront of consideration.

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, interchangeofficial said:

The Leagues club model worked very well in the 80s and 90s when slot machines provided massive profit for the clubs who then funded rugby league.

This is no longer the preferred model of NRL clubs as the profits are no longer as large as they once were and the social problems associated with it obviously are not good.

 

 

 

 

I agree with Lucky, the reliance on Leagues Club funded initiatives is imperative to the life of grassroots RL in NSW. The actual football clubs are independent of the “Leagues Clubs” and yes, their primary revenue at the moment is TV, but don’t let that get in the way of the artery that every Leagues club is to the local RL community.

Its not just RL either. Sydney soccer clubs and even Sydney Aussie rules clubs were in on the act. Souths Juniors isn’t even primarily related to Souths Bunnies, but more so the junior RL district and a huge leg up for their strength as a RL region.

While the huge influx of revenues due to gambling was a massive for the clubs in the 80s and 90s, we shouldn’t forget that these clubs all existed well before then and still had the same remit. 

In the UK, workers clubs were popular not for profit community organisations. I am wondering why the clubs never thought to start their own like they existed in Sydney.

Perhaps it was the existence of those workers clubs that meant there was no room for another members club. I’m not sure. Still interested to know from anyone that might know themselves.

[Padge]

2 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I’m not certain whether you are aware or not Paige, so I will clarify in case. These clubs are not for profit. Any positive cashflow is distributed back into the club or community schemes, traditionally grassroots RL being the forefront of consideration.

In essence all money in excess of spend at the end of the day is profit, what they do with it is up to them. The "profit" was from the gambling side of the clubs. I believe when the Aussie government changed the tax rules it became less "profitable". The gaming club side of things made a profit and this profit was fed back into the rugby club and its projects.

Salford, particularly in the 70s, had The Willows club, a cabaret club that funded a lot of the rugby club.  Wigan had The Riverside Club, but this never really put as much cash into the rugby club as The Willows did at its peak. Other clubs have had similar ventures in the past.

[JonM]

4 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Most on this forum will know that professional NSW RL clubs have established licenced members clubs that turnover multi million dollars a year. 

Is there any particular reason why this model was never established for UK RL clubs?

Why did such clubs not take off elsewhere in Australia? Does AFL have a similar model of funding professional sport teams through sales of alcohol & gambling?

[Rioman]

I may stand corrected but I believe what was Wakefield Theatre Club next to Belle Vue was intially meant to be for Wakefield Trinity along the lines of the Aussie Leagues Clubs. Quite why it never panned out that way I'm not sure.

Perhaps a fellow Wakefield supporter who is more learned than my self can shed some light on this or refute it.

[Sports Prophet]

3 hours ago, Padge said:

In essence all money in excess of spend at the end of the day is profit, what they do with it is up to them. The "profit" was from the gambling side of the clubs. I believe when the Aussie government changed the tax rules it became less "profitable". The gaming club side of things made a profit and this profit was fed back into the rugby club and its projects.

Salford, particularly in the 70s, had The Willows club, a cabaret club that funded a lot of the rugby club.  Wigan had The Riverside Club, but this never really put as much cash into the rugby club as The Willows did at its peak. Other clubs have had similar ventures in the past.

So it sounds like operations like this did exist.

Now I think about it, do I recall the Willows Club featuring in a small segment of Blood Sweat and Tears?

[Copa]

4 hours ago, JonM said:

Why did such clubs not take off elsewhere in Australia? Does AFL have a similar model of funding professional sport teams through sales of alcohol & gambling?

https://thenewdaily.com.au/money/finance-news/2018/03/21/afl-poker-machines/

 

[Luckycreed]

19 hours ago, Padge said:

In essence all money in excess of spend at the end of the day is profit, what they do with it is up to them. The "profit" was from the gambling side of the clubs. I believe when the Aussie government changed the tax rules it became less "profitable". The gaming club side of things made a profit and this profit was fed back into the rugby club and its projects.

Salford, particularly in the 70s, had The Willows club, a cabaret club that funded a lot of the rugby club.  Wigan had The Riverside Club, but this never really put as much cash into the rugby club as The Willows did at its peak. Other clubs have had similar ventures in the past.

The profit still is from the gambling side of things they are still very profitable enterprisesTthe clubs mounted a huge media campaign against a proposal by the NSW state government to increase the turnover tax on gaming machines I don't live in NSW so I can't recall if they won that fight or not.

Their biggest worry is more competition coming into the gambling market, particularly online gaming and wagering.

[Padge]

20 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

So it sounds like operations like this did exist.

Now I think about it, do I recall the Willows Club featuring in a small segment of Blood Sweat and Tears?

The focus of these clubs was entertainment with the profits coming in the main from bar takings and not from gambling.

[Sports Prophet]

On 7/26/2018 at 2:34 AM, Padge said:

The focus of these clubs was entertainment with the profits coming in the main from bar takings and not from gambling.

Sure, sorry, I wasn’t insinuating that the clubs needed to be gambling based. It just seems an obvious link that a professional club with thousands of fans and members should have social clubs attached, which essentially all the leagues clubs in NSW are. As it appears, they did exist. 

So for example, Salford RD are engaging with fans to fundraise for “players”. I think we saw a similar fundraising campaign at the Bulls that included a membership, I can’t remember the Ts n Cs, however, wouldn’t those few remaining Salford loyalists, be better off fundraising for a club of their own. Bricks and mortar. Constituted to deliver profits into local community RL initiatives and the professional club.

Im not certain Salford have enough fans for this, however, I would have thought a licenced members club for fans of say Wolves, that have a large supporter base would be a popular venture wouldn’t it?

[Damien]

Things like fans clubs ploughing profits back into a RL side sound great in theory. However in practice I think they would now be completely unviable unless they also had a larger remit, say a clubhouse and base for an amateur team too. Pubs and clubs up and down the country are closing at an alarming rate and the old entertainment/cabaret clubs of the past like the Riversiders and the Willows are now long gone. I know of countless Labour clubs that have closed too. Times have changed drastically and people just dont/cant afford to go out like they used to.