SL could increase to 14 teams in 2021

[Stuarty]

lets go to 14 teams in super league with 1 or 2 promoted into and 1 or 2 relegated from super league each season and leave it at that! ta

why? to have a fresh super league.

[jpmc]

1 hour ago, Angelic Cynic said:

It seems there are some 'changes' coming to speed up the game.

I think I know what they may be - and they won't be original to anyone in England thinking of them.

I do hope the changes apply to all the game - including 'the puppets'.

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/rugby-league-news/hull-kr-rugby-league-hudgell-2104205

 

Why has there been a delay in speaking to those outside the tent?

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/bradford-bulls/time-for-super-league-to-listen-to-those-outside-the-tent-says-robert-elstone-1-9395262

With Elstone telling us that tinkering with the system is not a silver bullet to the sports problems can the whole sport be assured that nothing is going to change now until at least the end of the next tv deal,presumably the end of 2026 ? Which will allow all clubs to build with confidence and not have to wonder whats going to happen in a couple of years time

Appologise if this announcement has been made and ive missed it

[Smudger06]

1 hour ago, jpmc said:

With Elstone telling us that tinkering with the system is not a silver bullet to the sports problems can the whole sport be assured that nothing is going to change now until at least the end of the next tv deal,presumably the end of 2026 ? Which will allow all clubs to build with confidence and not have to wonder whats going to happen in a couple of years time

Appologise if this announcement has been made and ive missed it

One thing does need to change ASAP and that's the Loop Fixtures (SL additional fixtures concept) the rest, set it in bloody concrete and give us stability.......

[westside]

1 hour ago, Big Picture said:

So in other words, the heartland teams would get off easy in terms of travel whereas the new teams would have to do it all and bear all the expense of it.  I suppose they'd all have to make do with other teams' castoff players too?  Would they even be members or just guests like Catalans, Toulouse and Toronto are now?  In short, no help or concessions for the new teams just like all past attempts at expansion which for the most part failed miserably.

What sane investor over here would touch a setup with so many shortcomings compared to all the leagues which they already know?

No help or concessions? What? This post doesn’t make any sense.

[jpmc]

10 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

One thing does need to change ASAP and that's the Loop Fixtures (SL additional fixtures concept) the rest, set it in bloody concrete and give us stability.......

It sounds/looks like the sl club live lives of quiet desperation so i fully understand the need for loop fixtures although they arent ideal.

I think we both agree a statement is needed from Elstone & the sl clubs that what we have now is here for a lot of years.

 

[Smudger06]

12 minutes ago, jpmc said:

It sounds/looks like the sl club live lives of quiet desperation so i fully understand the need for loop fixtures although they arent ideal.

I think we both agree a statement is needed from Elstone & the sl clubs that what we have now is here for a lot of years.

 

Yes, they feel a need to make things murky and not easily understandable with tiresome repeat games for the sake of a few extra quid through the gates + they are sh** scared of robbing sky of 18 Games from it's contract (21 S8 games replaced by 3 extra Playoff Games under a top5 + shifting the MPG to Championship Playoff Final) 

They will probably close up shop again after the 2021 season if they can guarantee themselves a peanuts rise in sky payouts + enough money to float 2 extra teams (Toulouse & toronto) without dipping into their own hand out. They will probs ask for 2.1m each x 14 rather than 1.825m each x 12. 

Then, when it's not working - Again, they will open up shop when that money as long since been spent....

[Smudger06]

I say £2.1m as that's the new salary cap that's been mooted about for this timeframe. 

[Angelic Cynic]

3 hours ago, jpmc said:

So he says Hetherington is a snidy B'stard & clubs not in the sl are all puppets ?

At what point will he admit he;s prepared to sacrifice hkr for the good of the game ?

 

 

   It's hugely depressing,isn't it?

   Despite the vote from the club owners,and others,it was deemed that everyone would get along just fine.

   We then have Hudgell continuing to be personal and insulting.( Maybe the human Rights solicitors don't believe in Human Rights )

   We have another interview with the Super League Supremo - and the journalist doesn't seem to ask a relevant question.

   https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/weekend-interview-yorkshireman-robert-elstone-proud-to-step-out-for-red-rose-super-league-grand-final-1-9395260

    The sport doesn't seem to be moving very fast.Maybe it'll all change in the final few weeks of next season. 

[The Parksider]

On 10/12/2018 at 1:30 PM, Krzzystuff said:

 Elite sports needs elite players who like to get paid elite wages. To pay those wages you need lots of fans in the ground buying tons of merch with a lot of big name sponsors on the merch. What are the clubs behind these "artificial barriers" doing to make that happen?

Yet again you deliberately make out the criteria for TWP's success is something other than what was stated by Perez himself i.e. the development of NA players (total failure) and a massive NA TV deal (again total failure)...

The merchandise sold at TWP merely reduces the massive deficit Argyle runs up trying to run an SL club from 3,000 miles away that has no home grown players and never will, that has no fellow NA clubs following and never will, and as for a massive TV contract that certainly will never happen whilst TWP are merely Leigh reserves.

.Anyway it’s time you challenged Argyle over his stake in a London Club. Is he jumping ship?

On 10/12/2018 at 3:59 PM, Luckycreed said:

The vast majority of Brits also have zero interest in Rugby League, the current system was ok for a semi pro game, but there just are not enough clubs with large enough supporter bases  for a Soccer  type set up to be viable with the game trying to be full time pro.

.The second tier has to be fully professional if the top tier is and the sport has to be culturally dominant enough that if a team slips into the second tier it doesn't damage the sports popularity in that teams catchment area  or the whole thing is too unstable

English Rugby League is just not robust enough for this kind of structure the games supporter base is too small and beyond a handful of clubs too fragmented . You have got about eight clubs at the most with large enough support for full time football with a structure that is constantly threatening  to reduce that number via relegation

This is a tremendous post. It’s not that it says anything new it’s just how well it’s put. We have had over two years of the Transatlantic fantasy and the message is now getting through, with more people supporting that message that there is no imminent explosion of the game around the globe.

I can perfectly accept that “growth” and “investment” is the obvious remedy to decline if you boil business principles down to the lowest common denominators.  It’s just that “growth” isn’t putting overseas clubs into SL and booting M62 clubs out. Or close to home it isn’t Featherstone Rovers finally getting their SL chance at the expense of such as Leeds.

If “investment” in TWP leads to them replacing Leeds Rhinos next year will this be “Growth”? Not at all if that investment is one man’s personal dream and as a result Leeds go into decline.

Any struggling business who wants to survive has to reject aggressive takeovers which is the Perez plan, and has to find a way to shore up the finances and try to retain the skilled staff and the customer base. That clearly starts by retaining as much of the assets, the staff and the customer base you can.

So no, TWP cannot ever replace a Leeds, No Leeds cannot be relegated, No the amateur game in Leeds cannot be knocked back by relegation. We cannot afford that luxury. A luxury for all those so called RL fans who were happy to kick Bradford Bulls in the proverbials when they were relegated.

I set out how in Lancashire the game has now faded and retracted in terms of any strength or investment to a small triangle that is the 30 mile round trip from Warrington to Wigan to Saints and back to Warrington. If Leeds follow Bradford next year for TWP then what exactly would be the strength of the game in West Yorkshire amongst the remaining clubs?

Castleford, Huddersfield and Wakefield would be that joint strength that is all. Imagine that? The distance from Fartown to Wakey to Cas is a mere 24 miles.

Out of our 12 clubs Widnes do not have a rich owner and if Koukash fails to bankroll Salford next year that’s it for them both. The 10 clubs Superleague wanted to run to, this coming season, were planned early this year but were blown apart by the Championship owners tail wagging the dog, and the nonsense of P & R by chance (and may I say) Chancers.

Our strength is regional (West Yorks, West Lancs, Hull and South west france) and it is a strength based on local tradition. It’s prospects for growth are  severely limited outside these places. We have the investors in these places, we have the fans in these places, we have the players in these places. Move the business away from here, and it dies.

How well you put the point that you don’t close  your four local corner shops who are “just getting by” because you think you can build a chain of international supermarkets instead. That’s what about 30 complete fantasists on here think we can do.......................

[TheReaper]

17 hours ago, The Parksider said:

that has no home grown players and never will, that has no fellow NA clubs following and never will, and as for a massive TV contract that certainly will never happen whilst TWP are merely Leigh reserves.

Never say never.

Or, pass on those lotto numbers.

[Scarey71]

On 10/12/2018 at 2:14 PM, scotchy1 said:

But we aren't talking about winners and losers. We are talking about clubs going pop.

It isn't incumbent upon us to have a situation where being the best championship clubs puts a club in a damaging situation.

You are also wrong. Last season  the bottom 6 of SL included Leeds, les Catalans and Hull KR. The gap from Leeds and Les Catalans to Fev or Halifax or london is massive.

Take away the 1.8m Leeds get from Sky and give it Fev and Leeds are still turning over 3 times as much as Fev.

Right now Leeds are in the midst of a redevelopment of Headingley that costs many times the value of post office road. Fev are in financial difficulties. Les Catalans are challenge cup winners and will be playing at the Camp Nou. Leigh are bust.

It's a tricky dilemma. How close were Leeds to being bust when Hetherington took over?

Should Hull and Hudds stayed in the Championship (both went pop in SL remember)?  The gap from Bradford to KR was massive but that situations now reversed. 

Wolves were two days away from liquidation at one point at Wilderspool. Should they have been forcefully relegated to stop the financial troubles?

Bradford had a decent turnover but turnover is vanity , profit is sanity but cash is reality.  How many SL clubs pass this test today? Some truly woeful decisions were made to try maintain success.  Would it have mattered if Prescott had kept his nose out of the Tesco stadium deal?

Fully understand what you are saying but it would be hypocritical of some areas to push licencing given their financial histories and equally we can't have a halfway house saying that, for example, Halifax aren't allowed to go up because the gap is too great. Even monied up Toronto had a massive gap from St Helen's to themselves.  

If Halifax did enough to go up good on 'em.

You sadly have to trust the people in charge at the clubs to know their limit at any given time but you shouldn't dictate what they can or can't do.

I think 14 clubs would be stretch too far but we shouldn't artificially interfere with movements between divisions.

 

[Scarey71]

12 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

All of those things are irrelevant.

Its not hypocrisy to treat different things differently. Its common sense. Wolves going bust and wolves now are a different proposition. It would be nuts to pretend they are same. Why would we ?

The problem with your argument is it ignores the reality as it is. Hull arent pennilessin the Boulevard, Bradford arent cashed up with a world champions squad anymore. Its not a reality we need to deal with.

Maybe in an alternate reality Huddersfield don't have Ken Davy's money. But they do in this one.

Perhaps there is a world where pre-Caddick Leeds went bust or pre-Moran Wire did. But this world isnt it. So it doesnt matter. Its of no consequence. Because nobody is saying that if those things change we couldnt adapt. Nobody is saying that if Halifax suddenly didnt play in a half-finished stadium, if they had more than two pennies to rub together, if they werent having to ask players to take pay-cuts, then our judgement of them couldnt change. Of course it could. In fact that is the whole point.

The problem with your argument is that it is one long contradiction.  

Clubs that can go bust (or come within two weeks of) in SL and can retain their place, Hull, Wire, Wakey,  Leeds, Hudds

Clubs that can't have a place in SL in case they go pop - Any club currently not in SL.

But that is not hypocrisy is it because we must live entirely in the 'today'.

As you don't see this it's time for me to bow out.

 

 

 

[Niels]

On 10/14/2018 at 2:43 AM, The Parksider said:

Yet again you deliberately make out the criteria for TWP's success is something other than what was stated by Perez himself i.e. the development of NA players (total failure) and a massive NA TV deal (again total failure)...

The merchandise sold at TWP merely reduces the massive deficit Argyle runs up trying to run an SL club from 3,000 miles away that has no home grown players and never will, that has no fellow NA clubs following and never will, and as for a massive TV contract that certainly will never happen whilst TWP are merely Leigh reserves.

.Anyway it’s time you challenged Argyle over his stake in a London Club. Is he jumping ship?

This is a tremendous post. It’s not that it says anything new it’s just how well it’s put. We have had over two years of the Transatlantic fantasy and the message is now getting through, with more people supporting that message that there is no imminent explosion of the game around the globe.

I can perfectly accept that “growth” and “investment” is the obvious remedy to decline if you boil business principles down to the lowest common denominators.  It’s just that “growth” isn’t putting overseas clubs into SL and booting M62 clubs out. Or close to home it isn’t Featherstone Rovers finally getting their SL chance at the expense of such as Leeds.

If “investment” in TWP leads to them replacing Leeds Rhinos next year will this be “Growth”? Not at all if that investment is one man’s personal dream and as a result Leeds go into decline.

Any struggling business who wants to survive has to reject aggressive takeovers which is the Perez plan, and has to find a way to shore up the finances and try to retain the skilled staff and the customer base. That clearly starts by retaining as much of the assets, the staff and the customer base you can.

So no, TWP cannot ever replace a Leeds, No Leeds cannot be relegated, No the amateur game in Leeds cannot be knocked back by relegation. We cannot afford that luxury. A luxury for all those so called RL fans who were happy to kick Bradford Bulls in the proverbials when they were relegated.

I set out how in Lancashire the game has now faded and retracted in terms of any strength or investment to a small triangle that is the 30 mile round trip from Warrington to Wigan to Saints and back to Warrington. If Leeds follow Bradford next year for TWP then what exactly would be the strength of the game in West Yorkshire amongst the remaining clubs?

Castleford, Huddersfield and Wakefield would be that joint strength that is all. Imagine that? The distance from Fartown to Wakey to Cas is a mere 24 miles.

Out of our 12 clubs Widnes do not have a rich owner and if Koukash fails to bankroll Salford next year that’s it for them both. The 10 clubs Superleague wanted to run to, this coming season, were planned early this year but were blown apart by the Championship owners tail wagging the dog, and the nonsense of P & R by chance (and may I say) Chancers.

Our strength is regional (West Yorks, West Lancs, Hull and South west france) and it is a strength based on local tradition. It’s prospects for growth are  severely limited outside these places. We have the investors in these places, we have the fans in these places, we have the players in these places. Move the business away from here, and it dies.

How well you put the point that you don’t close  your four local corner shops who are “just getting by” because you think you can build a chain of international supermarkets instead. That’s what about 30 complete fantasists on here think we can do.......................

I think you have made some good points here. 

I actually enjoy the game as it is. I think it is a Northern game predominantly in the same way that Gaelic football is an Irish game. They seem to thrive and enjoy their game, they don't worry about making it the most popular game on earth. 

I think football covers the big cities, European involvement, champions league etc. 

Having said all this I would like a team in say, Edinburgh and I would go watch them when I am there. So I am certainly not against new clubs.

However, if the northern teams synonymous with the game go, then so will the core support of paying spectators.