It’s Ottawa in 2020 says Eric Perez

[Pulga]

Imagine if they get a TV deal. How will Parky define his narrow view of "expansion"? I guess he could bang on about Canadian-born players etc.

The value of a North American TV deal won't be from broadcasting into Nth America to begin with, it will be from on-selling into Australia. A night game in Nth America is a midday game in Australia, something that can't happen in the UK/Europe because of time zones.

$20m will turn to $40+ if Ottowa get in. Then who knows if NY, Boston, Montreal etc actually happen. It wouldn't be a stretch to eclipse SL altogether. Then these £500k fees to play in the Challenge Cup and not letting TWP have a share of TV deals are going to come back and bite them.

[Kayakman]

1 minute ago, Pulga said:

Imagine if they get a TV deal. How will Parky define his narrow view of "expansion"? I guess he could bang on about Canadian-born players etc.

The value of a North American TV deal won't be from broadcasting into Nth America to begin with, it will be from on-selling into Australia. A night game in Nth America is a midday game in Australia, something that can't happen in the UK/Europe because of time zones.

$20m will turn to $40+ if Ottowa get in. Then who knows if NY, Boston, Montreal etc actually happen. It wouldn't be a stretch to eclipse SL altogether. Then these £500k fees to play in the Challenge Cup and not letting TWP have a share of TV deals are going to come back and bite them.

The Australian angle is very interesting and one worth exploring further.  Of course, the Wolfpack have strong Aussie links, as do both of the countries, a joint admiration if you will.

People in Australia want to see the Canadian team succeed and are aware of it.  There is hard cash to be made on that end no doubt.

[Kayakman]

11 minutes ago, Jayme2020 said:

Its huge if they don't waste it.

Blow it on free beer and women during the hot summer games with the sun blazing...free beer and women!...that will bring the English fans over in droves!!!!!

[Jayme2020]

12 minutes ago, Pulga said:

Imagine if they get a TV deal. How will Parky define his narrow view of "expansion"? I guess he could bang on about Canadian-born players etc.

The value of a North American TV deal won't be from broadcasting into Nth America to begin with, it will be from on-selling into Australia. A night game in Nth America is a midday game in Australia, something that can't happen in the UK/Europe because of time zones.

$20m will turn to $40+ if Ottowa get in. Then who knows if NY, Boston, Montreal etc actually happen. It wouldn't be a stretch to eclipse SL altogether. Then these £500k fees to play in the Challenge Cup and not letting TWP have a share of TV deals are going to come back and bite them.

The other thing is if there is Toronto/Ottawa/Boston/Montreal/NY while it would only be 5 teams they could have a lot of power.

[Jayme2020]

8 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

Blow it on free beer and women during the hot summer games with the sun blazing...free beer and women!...that will bring the English fans over in droves!!!!!

In a prov where there is strict rules about tailgating can't see free beer going over well.

[TIWIT]

I must admit, considering this TV deal, what comes to mind is the old adage "If something sounds too good to be true then it probably is." 

[Copa]

6 hours ago, Kayakman said:

If TWP have a 20 million CDN TV deal on tap if they make SL that is a huge deal.....that secures the long term capital for the team....

LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLL!!!!!!!

They still have to make SL though.

[The Parksider]

21 hours ago, fighting irish said:

I'm glad you're in here Parksider, keeping everyone ''grounded'' in reality.

You are obviously very knowledgeable about the state of the game (especially in the North) so I always look forward to your comments. Its also clear to me that you are cautious about doing anything which might undermine the existing clubs and that is admirable. We wouldn't want to chuck the baby out with the bathwater.

I can't help thinking though, that you seem resigned to the (inevitable) terminal decline of our sport. I don't know if anyone has asked you directly, whether you have any ideas about how the decline might be slowed, then stopped and (sooner rather than later) reversed so that growth might be restored but if you do, I'd like to hear them?

I'm not asked anything, just called an "idiot" by people who then encourage each other to "put him on ignore"

The basic problem is people wanting to play the game which is "personal choice" you just can't make them play. You can have a Billionaire but if nobody wants to play RL then that's that, and clearly since the 1920's Canada does not want to play RL. Therefore a Canadian SL club can only thrive if they import quality players from somewhere else. The salary cap stops people like Argyle just buying the worlds best, but he still can buy players from the player pool here which he does. Each North American club setting up in Superleague here is an English club making way. The quality player pool is VERY limited, so people pretend it's not and that quality players grow on trees, or paying a player more makes him a quality player.  Visa rules also limit Aussie imports which is also ignored on here.

People pretend you build a club with just money, but you don't. You do it using the money to buy the players. Imagine 19 more David Argyle's coming into the game. Will that lead to more kids taking the game up giving you the "growth" you talk about? You see the growth we desperately need to expand the number of clubs is quality player growth. In recent years due to a player shortage clubs like Bradford, Wakey, London and Widnes have struggled playing appallingly at times . They now struggle in Hull for players as well. We lose top top players to the NRL as well

Of course the few that wake up to this reality suggest we "invest in youth development"  as though once again money is the key. But it's not. You can buy a playing field, set up a clubhouse and changing rooms, and pitches find a few (raw) coaches, and generally provide top class facilities. But if the quality local kids all want to go play soccer or Union then we are stuffed once again by personal choice trumping money. We forget how hard RL is to play and how soft kids and parents can nowadays be.

Let's be straight here, the only quality kids who want to be RL professionals tend to live in places along the M62 where RL has a strong local tradition. That's not in Liverpool, Manchester of Sheffield either. It's a VERY limited area.

My "opinion" is not open to debate. It's a fact confirmed by those who run the game. Lenegan says "expansion" and "growth" is about more quality players first and foremost and YES you have to pay them as well as you can which is what TV deals are about. It's what Marquee allowances are for

So it's all about players. Some spoof post above states TWP now has a £20M TV deal they do not have to share with the other clubs. The fact is £20M is nothing compared to the £Billion Argyle sits on. £200M is irrelevant if you can only spend £2M a year on your squad. Everyday we see rubbish like this posted on here with occasional caveats that yes players are important but it will take 15-20 years for Canada to develop them. Only problem is they haven't even bothered to start. Perez knew it was futile from all his years of failure at Canada RL so he tried Grid Iron conversions and it failed. Catalans Superleague success has not got more kids playing in France. Less play.

So thank you for your intelligent question, growth is the key, but it is a growth in playing the game that would be the real success. Measure your phoney Canadian and American clubs on how many quality RL players they produce now and if "none" predict for me how many North Americans will be playing at top level in ten years and again the answer is none isn't it.

Yet in 10 years we will apparently have Boston, New York, Jacksonville, Ottawa, Toronto and Montreal attracting £Hundreds of millions of TV money. We won't have Castleford, Huddersfield, HKR, Hull, Wakefield, Bradford, Salford or Widnes etc in Superleague any more and as more people go through the North American Turnstiles less and less dads and subsequently their kids here will bother with RL and less and less schools will bother.  If anything Rugby Union may start to get a foothold along the M62, a real threat to a weakening RL game here....

I am realistic about the situation so I am firmly behind preserving English RL as long as we can, kind of "fight to the death" for it. If we want to kill it then just let a load of North Americans flood it with money. That WILL kill it and i do not expect many on here or in the RL media to ever discuss this dilemma at any length. Put Parky on ignore is always the cry!! 

very soon a post will come along bragging about money.....

[Adelaide Tiger]

8 hours ago, Kayakman said:

If TWP have a 20 million CDN TV deal on tap if they make SL that is a huge deal.....that secures the long term capital for the team....

LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLL!!!!!!!

I hope that the reported deal is correct.

I have many old mates back in Cas that slagged off the TWP venture when it was first announced saying why should a team in Canada get SL money.

Well if TWP do get a $20 million TV deal these same people will be moaning that this money should be shared.

[Adelaide Tiger]

7 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

I'm not asked anything, just called an "idiot" by people who then encourage each other to "put him on ignore"

The basic problem is people wanting to play the game which is "personal choice" you just can't make them play. You can have a Billionaire but if nobody wants to play RL then that's that, and clearly since the 1920's Canada does not want to play RL. Therefore a Canadian SL club can only thrive if they import quality players from somewhere else. The salary cap stops people like Argyle just buying the worlds best, but he still can buy players from the player pool here which he does. Each North American club setting up in Superleague here is an English club making way. The quality player pool is VERY limited, so people pretend it's not and that quality players grow on trees, or paying a player more makes him a quality player.  Visa rules also limit Aussie imports which is also ignored on here.

People pretend you build a club with just money, but you don't. You do it using the money to buy the players. Imagine 19 more David Argyle's coming into the game. Will that lead to more kids taking the game up giving you the "growth" you talk about? You see the growth we desperately need to expand the number of clubs is quality player growth. In recent years due to a player shortage clubs like Bradford, Wakey, London and Widnes have struggled playing appallingly at times . They now struggle in Hull for players as well. We lose top top players to the NRL as well

Of course the few that wake up to this reality suggest we "invest in youth development"  as though once again money is the key. But it's not. You can buy a playing field, set up a clubhouse and changing rooms, and pitches find a few (raw) coaches, and generally provide top class facilities. But if the quality local kids all want to go play soccer or Union then we are stuffed once again by personal choice trumping money. We forget how hard RL is to play and how soft kids and parents can nowadays be.

Let's be straight here, the only quality kids who want to be RL professionals tend to live in places along the M62 where RL has a strong local tradition. That's not in Liverpool, Manchester of Sheffield either. It's a VERY limited area.

My "opinion" is not open to debate. It's a fact confirmed by those who run the game. Lenegan says "expansion" and "growth" is about more quality players first and foremost and YES you have to pay them as well as you can which is what TV deals are about. It's what Marquee allowances are for

So it's all about players. Some spoof post above states TWP now has a £20M TV deal they do not have to share with the other clubs. The fact is £20M is nothing compared to the £Billion Argyle sits on. £200M is irrelevant if you can only spend £2M a year on your squad. Everyday we see rubbish like this posted on here with occasional caveats that yes players are important but it will take 15-20 years for Canada to develop them. Only problem is they haven't even bothered to start. Perez knew it was futile from all his years of failure at Canada RL so he tried Grid Iron conversions and it failed. Catalans Superleague success has not got more kids playing in France. Less play.

So thank you for your intelligent question, growth is the key, but it is a growth in playing the game that would be the real success. Measure your phoney Canadian and American clubs on how many quality RL players they produce now and if "none" predict for me how many North Americans will be playing at top level in ten years and again the answer is none isn't it.

Yet in 10 years we will apparently have Boston, New York, Jacksonville, Ottawa, Toronto and Montreal attracting £Hundreds of millions of TV money. We won't have Castleford, Huddersfield, HKR, Hull, Wakefield, Bradford, Salford or Widnes etc in Superleague any more and as more people go through the North American Turnstiles less and less dads and subsequently their kids here will bother with RL and less and less schools will bother.  If anything Rugby Union may start to get a foothold along the M62, a real threat to a weakening RL game here....

I am realistic about the situation so I am firmly behind preserving English RL as long as we can, kind of "fight to the death" for it. If we want to kill it then just let a load of North Americans flood it with money. That WILL kill it and i do not xpect anyone on here or in the RL media to ever discuss this dilemma. Put Parky on ignore!! Get him censored.

Well I do not have you on ignore.

But I in the past, just like Fighting Irish on page 12 of this topic, have asked you to put forward your strategy to grow the game in playing numbers, income and spectators, but you have never put forward any proposals.

So feel free to do so and I will debate your proposals with you.

[Jayme2020]

Parksider

While I can understand where your coming from however the issue with your idea in part is you could get a  ton of new UK teams that should not be in the league and you end up with a far much weaker league lower pay etc.

The other thing is there is a push from some to get UK teams in some North American leagues Nhl/Nba for example if the Rugby league said no to North America then the UK teams wanting to join the Nhl and Nba would have a really hard time and likely be rejected.

 

[TheReaper]

3 hours ago, The Parksider said:

My "opinion" is not open to debate.

This is the entire reason people have a problem with you.

[Kayakman]

12 hours ago, Jayme2020 said:

In a prov where there is strict rules about tailgating can't see free beer going over well.

Free beer always goes over well!  Rules are made to be broken...let the beer and freedom flow!  Bring on the womenfolk...cue the tunes!~

[Smudger06]

Just to clarify something Parksider stated; Visa rules do not limit Aussie imports, RFL rules do. 

[Kayakman]

4 hours ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Well I do not have you on ignore.

But I in the past, just like Fighting Irish on page 12 of this topic, have asked you to put forward your strategy to grow the game in playing numbers, income and spectators, but you have never put forward any proposals.

So feel free to do so and I will debate your proposals with you.

He has no strategy...I've dealt with Parky before on a good basis and I respect his right to voice his opinion.  The problem is all he does is be critical and complain....never anything that is constructive in nature.   He is like the guy at work who constantly complains about everything but never offers any practical solutions or acts to solve the aforesaid problems.

He can't tell you a plan to save/promote the game because he doesn't have one....he also hates change.  He will always have negative comments on the plans and/or actions of of others though...he also hates growth.

[Kayakman]

4 hours ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

I hope that the reported deal is correct.

I have many old mates back in Cas that slagged off the TWP venture when it was first announced saying why should a team in Canada get SL money.

Well if TWP do get a $20 million TV deal these same people will be moaning that this money should be shared.

This is the fundamental problem that your friends don't see...they lack the vision.  

First, they have to admit that they were totally wrong about the Wolfpack (hard to do eating crow).

Second, they have to admit that their error has actually hurt RL since their short term greed has actually limited their Clubs long term earning potential (and that of other Clubs).

Third, instead of wanting a free ride like a bunch of bums they should emulate what Toronto have done, roll up their sleeves, and get to it themselves.

Are they up to it?  Do they have what it takes?....we in Toronto look forward to such opportunities/we are  not afraid .....BRING THEM ON AND WE WILL KNOCK THEM DOWN ONE BY ONE!

We will make SL in our first five years and then we will dominate SL....it is our destiny.  That is just the way the Rugby Gods have designed it.

"Run With The Pack!"

[Jayme2020]

13 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

He has no strategy...I've dealt with Parky before on a good basis and I respect his right to voice his opinion.  The problem is all he does is be critical and complain....never anything that is constructive in nature.   He is like the guy at work who constantly complains about everything but never offers any practical solutions or acts to solve the aforesaid problems.

He can't tell you a plan to save/promote the game because he doesn't have one....he also hates change.  He will always have negative comments on the plans and/or actions of of others though...he also hates growth.

Some people hate change that's not limited to Parksider.

[Jayme2020]

47 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

The argument that we shouldnt admit these teams because they will take players and money away from the game is a poor one because it leaves us with two scenarios.

1. These clubs go away and set up their own club. Many seem to favour this. The idea that we should build up a few clubs then send them back to set up independent leagues in their own countries, or offer them no help at all and leave them to do it themselves. This is a very specious argument because if this happens then there will be even more clubs needing even more players, not under our control with things like quotas and salary caps.

2. These clubs just go away and dont bother. This is also a silly argument because that doesnt address the player issue, and the money coming in to the game going to places like Ottowa or Toronto isnt redirected in to the areas they want. The game just gets less money and we don't open new player pools or create new pathways.

If Toronto is in the SL and Ottawa League 1 I don't see how people can say this is not good for players.

[Kayakman]

4 minutes ago, Jayme2020 said:

Some people hate change that's not limited to Parksider.

You have just identified the biggest problem in the world today for many things (including RL); change and movement are physical laws/constants of the universe and won't bend to the hubris of any organic being.

Just because people hate it does not mean that it isn't going to happen.  And it also doesn't mean that it is not good for them...Parky and his bunch are just going to have to eat the gruel they have served up for themselves.   Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it!

Change and movement are what we call constants in physics...IGNORE THEM AT YOUR PERIL.

[Jayme2020]

17 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

You have just identified the biggest problem in the world today for many things (including RL); change and movement are physical laws/constants of the universe and won't bend to the hubris of any organic being.

Just because people hate it does not mean that it isn't going to happen.  And it also doesn't mean that it is not good for them...Parky and his bunch are just going to have to eat the gruel they have served up for themselves.   Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it!

Change and movement are what we call constants in physics...IGNORE THEM AT YOUR PERIL.

Its not like teams are knocking down the door to join the league so you have Ottawa/NY maybe Boston and Montreal in a few years were talking about 5 teams if you include the TWP that's not many clubs.

[Big Picture]

1 hour ago, Jayme2020 said:

Its not like teams are knocking down the door to join the league so you have Ottawa/NY maybe Boston and Montreal in a few years were talking about 5 teams if you include the TWP that's not many clubs.

After the embarrassing events of the past year, it's very likely that other than the Pérez and Wilby groups, all the others have changed their minds about getting involved with the RFL/SL because it's so small time.

[Oxford]

6 hours ago, The Parksider said:

You can have a Billionaire but if nobody wants to play RL then that's that, and clearly since the 1920's Canada does not want to play RL.

Why on earth would you love a sport so much you want to defend it against everything would you hold it in so little esteem?

No one in the whole of Canada would like to play RL according to that statement. Out of over 37 milllion people no one would like to play our game not even one, not even Kayakman!

[Big Picture]

7 hours ago, The Parksider said:

I'm not asked anything, just called an "idiot" by people who then encourage each other to "put him on ignore"

The basic problem is people wanting to play the game which is "personal choice" you just can't make them play. You can have a Billionaire but if nobody wants to play RL then that's that, and clearly since the 1920's Canada does not want to play RL. Therefore a Canadian SL club can only thrive if they import quality players from somewhere else. The salary cap stops people like Argyle just buying the worlds best, but he still can buy players from the player pool here which he does. Each North American club setting up in Superleague here is an English club making way. The quality player pool is VERY limited, so people pretend it's not and that quality players grow on trees, or paying a player more makes him a quality player.  Visa rules also limit Aussie imports which is also ignored on here.

FYI very few Canadians played basketball for 100+ years after it was invented, Steve Nash being a rare exception in the pro game.  Now, almost 24 years after the Toronto Raptors began playing in the NBA, 14 Canadian players are playing in that league.  Without the Raptors on the scene, it's likely that some of them would never have been interested in playing the game.

The same can be said of the Londoners who play RL now re the Broncos being in SL for all those years after it was formed.

[Kayakman]

53 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Why on earth would you love a sport so much you want to defend it against everything would you hold it in so little esteem?

No one in the whole of Canada would like to play RL according to that statement. Out of over 37 milllion people no one would like to play our game not even one, not even Kayakman!

I would love to play...I want to play...I need to play.....I have a right to play!.....

[Oxford]

5 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

I would love to play...I want to play...I need to play.....I have a right to play!.....

No, no, no you're a Canuck and since 1920 you've had your chance and rejected it, you blew it!

PS love the picture