Great Britain to pick strongest possible side

[Damien]

1 minute ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

William’s performances at international level have been poor 

He's too one dimensional and predictable and needs to develop his all round game. Hopefully going to the NRL will see him develop his game further and see him become more of a playmaker.

[Denton Rovers RLFC]

On 19/06/2019 at 13:05, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

In what shouldn’t in anyway be news, Wayne Bennett has said he will pick the strongest available side for Great Britain. This is excellent news but something that should be an absolute given. My current team is below, if Gareth Widdop can return from injury I expect him to play, but put him at 18th man for now.

1 Coote

2 Makinson

3 Connor 

4 Atkin

5 Hall

6 Austin

7 Hastings 

8 Graham 

9 Roby

10 Burgess 

11 Whitehead 

12 Bateman

13 Burgess

14 Burgess

15 Thompson 

16 Hodgson 

17 Currie 

18 Widdop 

Watts offers more than Graham these days, even as a ball handler, still wouldn't leave Graham out, but by not having Watts in that side means it isn't the strongest. And is Burgess worthy of a 13 spot, I don't rate his ball handling at all, Hodgson really doesn't impress me, his last few internationals he was bang average.

And lastly I wouldn't have Hall, we have better, he's defensively frail IMO and not the player he was.

[MZH]

12 minutes ago, Denton Rovers RLFC said:

Watts offers more than Graham these days, even as a ball handler, still wouldn't leave Graham out, but by not having Watts in that side means it isn't the strongest. And is Burgess worthy of a 13 spot, I don't rate his ball handling at all, Hodgson really doesn't impress me, his last few internationals he was bang average.

And lastly I wouldn't have Hall, we have better, he's defensively frail IMO and not the player he was.

I just think Hall has been there and done it and we know he is reliable. In the absence of any obvious replacement I would stick with him for this tour and then hopefully Johnstone can get back to his best after his injury. The other alternative is McGillivray, but he seems to be on the way down now aswell.

What other viable options are there?

I'll thrown in a left field one. Ratu Naulago has a British passport.

[Denton Rovers RLFC]

Not a bad shout on Ratu but I think his defence is a little bit naive still though could be polished up with the right coaching. Superb under the high ball and in attack is excellent.

[deluded pom?]

Why not just call them the Barbarians?

[Rupert Prince]

13 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

William’s performances at international level have been poor 

Well my memory may be poor, so may be you could jog it by reminding me how many assists he made in the NZ series. 

It's hard to say how poorly he played in the WC since he sat on the bench, I suppose you have to rate him by the guy who actually was wearing the 6 jersey.

[Allora]

Heritage players should be for developing Nations.

It makes the game look poor when/if England or Australia choose a player based on their Grandparents.

New Zealand in all Sports pick players from other Pacific Nations because of their make up and even pick second generation Australians because they have to.

Australia and England should not go any further down this path, mistakes have been made in the past, time to move on and forward.

Coote, Hastings or Austin would make the Australian fans less likely than ever to embrace Test matches against England/GB.

For Aussie fans it would say "NRL castoff chancers willing to grab a Test Cap from anywhere they can"

Why would they bother watching a team that can not put out their homegrown best 17?

 

 

[deluded pom?]

9 minutes ago, Allora said:

Heritage players should be for developing Nations.

It makes the game look poor when/if England or Australia choose a player based on their Grandparents.

New Zealand in all Sports pick players from other Pacific Nations because of their make up and even pick second generation Australians because they have to.

Australia and England should not go any further down this path, mistakes have been made in the past, time to move on and forward.

Coote, Hastings or Austin would make the Australian fans less likely than ever to embrace Test matches against England/GB.

For Aussie fans it would say "NRL castoff chancers willing to grab a Test Cap from anywhere they can"

Why would they bother watching a team that can not put out their homegrown best 17?

 

 

Especially an alleged tier 1 nation.

[Allora]

4 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

Especially an alleged tier 1 nation.

For a game that is struggling on many fronts in the UK you would think that youngsters coming through or up and coming Super League talent would want something to aspire to,  picking three Aussies with fragile links to England/Scotland would not do much for your motivation

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

3 hours ago, Saint 1 said:

1 Coote

2 Makinson

3 Connor 

4 Gildart

5 McGilvary

6 Lomax

7 Widdop

8 Graham 

9 Roby

10 Walmsley 

11 Whitehead 

12 Bateman

13 S. Burgess

14 T. Burgess

15 Thompson 

16 Hodgson 

17 Currie/Greenwood

I don't see why we would pick Austin or Hastings when Widdop and Lomax are better than them without even getting into heritage discussions.  

 

That’s a decent looking team. 

Widdop has a bad injury and may not be fully recovered this season. 

Personally I don’t think Lomax is as good as Austin or Hastings. 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

2 hours ago, Allora said:

Heritage players should be for developing Nations.

It makes the game look poor when/if England or Australia choose a player based on their Grandparents.

New Zealand in all Sports pick players from other Pacific Nations because of their make up and even pick second generation Australians because they have to.

Australia and England should not go any further down this path, mistakes have been made in the past, time to move on and forward.

Coote, Hastings or Austin would make the Australian fans less likely than ever to embrace Test matches against England/GB.

For Aussie fans it would say "NRL castoff chancers willing to grab a Test Cap from anywhere they can"

Why would they bother watching a team that can not put out their homegrown best 17?

 

 

Every country in every sport uses heritage players, including Australia and New Zealand in Rugby League. If you don’t like the rules lobby to change to rules, but it’s madness not playing to the rules.

It would be like a coach or player not liking the 40:20 rule, therefore never attempting a 40:20, it’s not how things work.

See the Australian internationals below as examples in our sport 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Papalii

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felise_Kaufusi

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Tamou

[deluded pom?]

20 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Every country in every sport uses heritage players, including Australia and New Zealand in Rugby League. If you don’t like the rules lobby to change to rules, but it’s madness not playing to the rules.

It would be like a coach or player not liking the 40:20 rule, therefore never attempting a 40:20, it’s not how things work.

See the Australian internationals below as examples in our sport 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Papalii

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felise_Kaufusi

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Tamou

I thought we were better than that. I don’t want anything to do with win at all costs. Old fashioned maybe but I have some principles. Principles don’t mean you win but I don’t take any glory from stooping to those depths. Not for me.

[TBone]

5 hours ago, Allora said:

Heritage players should be for developing Nations.

It makes the game look poor when/if England or Australia choose a player based on their Grandparents.

New Zealand in all Sports pick players from other Pacific Nations because of their make up and even pick second generation Australians because they have to.

Australia and England should not go any further down this path, mistakes have been made in the past, time to move on and forward.

Coote, Hastings or Austin would make the Australian fans less likely than ever to embrace Test matches against England/GB.

For Aussie fans it would say "NRL castoff chancers willing to grab a Test Cap from anywhere they can"

Why would they bother watching a team that can not put out their homegrown best 17

 

 

The Aussies aren't that fussy, they selected Tonie Carrol, despite him representing NZ in a world cup, on the basis that having previously played Origin prior to the WC made him eligible for Australia;  they picked Karmichael Hunt, a New Zealander (his family moved to Australia at age 7); James Tamou an Australian international and New South Wales State of Origin and New Zealand Maori rugby league team representative, he was born in NZ and played his first rep game for the Maori; Akuila Uate, who was born in Fiji (family moved to Aus at age 15) and played for them 18 times before being selected for AUS in 2011...

[roughyedspud]

21 hours ago, MZH said:

 

I'll thrown in a left field one. Ratu Naulago has a British passport.

Merely having a British passport doesn't make you eligible for GB/Eng.

The RLIF eligibility laws are "birth,heritage or residency"

Was Naulago born here ?

Does Naulago have British born parents or grandparents ?

Has Naulago been resident in the UK,continuously,for the last 5 years ?

Which one is it?

[MZH]

2 minutes ago, roughyedspud said:

Merely having a British passport doesn't make you eligible for GB/Eng.

The RLIF eligibility laws are "birth,heritage or residency"

Was Naulago born here ?

Does Naulago have British born parents or grandparents ?

Has Naulago been resident in the UK,continuously,for the last 5 years ?

Which one is it?

The last one I believe. He has served in the British Army for the last 7 or 8 years.

[roughyedspud]

Just now, MZH said:

The last one I believe. He has served in the British Army for the last 7 or 8 years.

Well if he's eligible then there's not alot people can whinge about

[deluded pom?]

52 minutes ago, roughyedspud said:

Well if he's eligible then there's not alot people can whinge about

Oh yes there is.

[deluded pom?]

2 hours ago, TBone said:

The Aussies aren't that fussy, they selected Tonie Carrol, despite him representing NZ in a world cup, on the basis that having previously played Origin prior to the WC made him eligible for Australia;  they picked Karmichael Hunt, a New Zealander (his family moved to Australia at age 7); James Tamou an Australian international and New South Wales State of Origin and New Zealand Maori rugby league team representative, he was born in NZ and played his first rep game for the Maori; Akuila Uate, who was born in Fiji (family moved to Aus at age 15) and played for them 18 times before being selected for AUS in 2011...

You forgot Semi Radradra.

[Allora]

6 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Every country in every sport uses heritage players, including Australia and New Zealand in Rugby League. If you don’t like the rules lobby to change to rules, but it’s madness not playing to the rules.

It would be like a coach or player not liking the 40:20 rule, therefore never attempting a 40:20, it’s not how things work.

See the Australian internationals below as examples in our sport 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Papalii

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felise_Kaufusi

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Tamou

None of those are Heritage players.

They moved to live in Australia when they were youngsters are you saying players that moved to Australia permanently ages 5, 7 and 13 are not eligible to play for Australia? 

They were hardly first grade players that were poached for their Rugby League ability were they?

You do know Australia is a Country with one or two immigrants, give me a break.

Look up the meaning of what a Heritage player is.

 

[Allora]

3 hours ago, TBone said:

The Aussies aren't that fussy, they selected Tonie Carrol, despite him representing NZ in a world cup, on the basis that having previously played Origin prior to the WC made him eligible for Australia;  they picked Karmichael Hunt, a New Zealander (his family moved to Australia at age 7); James Tamou an Australian international and New South Wales State of Origin and New Zealand Maori rugby league team representative, he was born in NZ and played his first rep game for the Maori; Akuila Uate, who was born in Fiji (family moved to Aus at age 15) and played for them 18 times before being selected for AUS in 2011...

You must have missed the part where I said mistakes have been made.

If a person emigrates to Australia and becomes an Australian citizen is he not allowed to play for the Country he calls home?

As I said in my previous post, mistakes have been made Carrol was one, Radradra was another.

Steps have been taken to prevent that happening again.

Maori is not a real team IMO, its a knock up.

When has Australia picked a player that has been in the Country for less than a year based on a Grandparent?

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

9 hours ago, Allora said:

None of those are Heritage players.

They moved to live in Australia when they were youngsters are you saying players that moved to Australia permanently ages 5, 7 and 13 are not eligible to play for Australia? 

And what about Akuila Uate. Anyway I think you missed my point, which is these players are eligible as they have lived in Australia for 5+ years. Every country uses this rule and it’s the same in every sport, those suggesting England/GB shouldn’t play to the rules is ridiculous.

[Allora]

51 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

And what about Akuila Uate. Anyway I think you missed my point, which is these players are eligible as they have lived in Australia for 5+ years. Every country uses this rule and it’s the same in every sport, those suggesting England/GB shouldn’t play to the rules is ridiculous.

I did not miss your point at all.

Uate moved to Australia as a 15 year old, he was not a professional player that was poached to play for Australia I am pretty confident you could not stop a player that has lived in a Country long before they played the game professionally from being selected, it would be illegal.

Has Hastings, Coote or Austin moved permanently to England and plan on becoming English Nationals?

You are comparing players that moved to Australia mainly as young kids to three born and bred Aussies that have been in England 1 or 2 years just to play the game as doors were shut in the NRL in some cases.

I understand that those three players are eligible under the grandparent rule.

I think for a "Tier one nation" as England are its a disgrace to consider them as possible candidates and sends a very negative message to any English players coming through that aspire to playing for their Country.

I am certain if Great Britain or England roll out three Aussies in their team it will be another massive nail in the coffin for Test matches going forward.

The team would be considered a laughing stock by many Aussie and Kiwi Fans.

 

 

 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

1 hour ago, Allora said:

Has Hastings, Coote or Austin moved permanently to England and plan on becoming English Nationals?

I understand that those three players are eligible under the grandparent rule.

I think for a "Tier one nation" as England are its a disgrace to consider them as possible candidates and sends a very negative message to any English players coming through that aspire to playing for their Country.

I am certain if Great Britain or England roll out three Aussies in their team it will be another massive nail in the coffin for Test matches going forward.

The team would be considered a laughing stock by many Aussie and Kiwi Fans.

 

 

 

The rules are the rules, every country plays to them and picks the best possible squad they can, to suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

 

New Zealand born, played for New Zealand, then poached by Australia.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonie_Carroll

 

Jason Nightingale born and raised in Sydney, poached by New Zealand.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Nightingale

[Allora]

13 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

The rules are the rules, every country plays to them and picks the best possible squad they can, to suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

 

New Zealand born, played for New Zealand, then poached by Australia.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonie_Carroll

 

Jason Nightingale born and raised in Sydney, poached by New Zealand.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Nightingale

I have already mentioned Caroll in this thread, it was a long time ago and he moved to Australia as a teenager and still lives in Brisbane, he is an Australian citizen.

New Zealand have always poached Pacific Islanders and some Aussies, I mentioned that as well, they do not have much of a League set up there and many of their population are from the PI.

Does that make England, a country that started the game and has plenty of structure in its various leagues look like Mugs considering throwing three Aussies with one of four Grandparents their only link to GB/England?

I think it does, winning is not everything IMO, its how you go about trying to win.

If you have Coote, Hastings and Austin in the team you may as well give up as they will hardly put any concerns or worries into NZ or Australia,  if they were good enough they would be commanding top money in the NRL, the fact they are not means they were offered more or longer contracts by English Clubs.

No one wanted Hastings at all.

[Davo5]

1 hour ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

The rules are the rules, every country plays to them and picks the best possible squad they can, to suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

 

New Zealand born, played for New Zealand, then poached by Australia.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonie_Carroll

 

Jason Nightingale born and raised in Sydney, poached by New Zealand.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Nightingale

Semi Radradra,born in Fiji,grew up in Fiji,worked and played in Fiji,picked by the strongest playing nation despite having the strongest  comp,playing resources and money.